davekro

Mike, Big thank you for this. Dave

The Refrig. wholesaler would not even talk to me because I'm not a licensed contractor. I have a friend who works in the commercial refrig. industry (Therma). He called his supplier. They gave me the same new Tecumseh P/N that you did: AKA 4476Y XA (Said it was a 1/2 HP) His supplier had it for $410. The supplier is researching if he can cross this # over to an Embraco P/N. Vendor's Exchange carries Embraco. The refrig. supplier said NO WAY anyone could sell a new 134-a compressor for $140 (like a Vendor's Exchange guy quoted me for a 1/3HP 134-a compressor). Anyone ever bought compressors from Vendor's Exchange who can report on price and quality? I think I bought this used (1995) cooler ≈ 5 years ago for $600. They are few and far between, but maybe I'll see if I can find a local used cooler.

I've got an older Beverage-Air double sliding door beverage merchandiser with a bad compressor. I am getting all kinds of differing info as to what compressor to use for a replacement. I am not very familiar with refrigeration. Any ideas are appreciated. From old compressor's label: Tecumseh Bill of Material AK 169 AT-32-B4 Model AK 4476Y The above info tells me this is a 1/3 HP, high temp, high torque, 7,680 BTU, R-134a, 115v compressor. The Vendor's Exchange parts guy I spoke with was not very familiar with refrig. He said he had no crossover chart to convert to their stocked Embraco brand. The best he could do was give me a number for a soda machine (Dixie N.?) that was 1/3 HP w/134a. (VE825CX, Embraco # FFI12HBX) Is there a Tecumseh to Embraco conversion chart? The Embraco site was useless. Any other ideas?

I just noticed on the Vendor's Exchange site a new 'front door' assembly for the AP 7000. It has new electronics, keypad and guaranteed delivery sensor. http://www.shopveii.com/nav/Frames.asp Has anyone tried this conversion? If so, how has it worked out?

Alan, Did you use $300 or $500 MArs stackers in your AP 6000 conversions from VFM-1's? I was told (by MEI if I recall) that the VFM-L1-U4CS is physically the same size as the -U5E $500 bill stacker. Both with the side door access. How much of a pain is it to remove the -U3E stacker from an AP 6000? I only pull the bills every two weeks, so I would not mind a small pain. Not removing the validator, mind you. ;o) I wonder if a $300 bill stacker could be filed a bit someplace non critical to it's operation, to make it easier to remove to pull bills. Thanks

I just checked with Vendor's Exchange on the price for a brand new VN2501-U5E. They want $300. After all this hemming and hawing trying to get a refurb unit for $150 - $200, new with a 2 year warr, does not sound as bad. An extra $100-$150 to make sure this item creates no complaints for a loooong time. That has some value. ;o)

Alan, Thanks for the detailed reply. I have heard both yes and no on needing an harness. The confusion must be in buying a 'new' 2501 (which comes with harness) or used/ refurbished (just the validator). The ONLY 2501 I have found with a VFM style bezel used on line is this one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330453037613&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154 I just spoke with Vendors Exchange. They sell a Refurb. 2511 Gen 1 for $130 VFM (2501) style bezel for $13 Power harness for $9.30 (they say I need the harness with a refurb. unit, new units come with one) This VE package for ≈ $152 sounds good except that all they have now (refurb.) are ones with a $300 bill stacker. I was told by VE and AP that is is a 'PAIN' to get the $300 stacker off to pull bills. AP said I need a $500 stacker which has a 'side door' like my old VFM. VE does have a 'new' $500bill stacker for $49. That makes this conversion ≈ $200. I believe a brand new VN2501 runs about $375?? I believe this is the correct harness I'd need (with a used or refurb 2501). http://cgi.ebay.com/MARS-MEI-DBA-Bill-Acceptor-Harness-/110563832818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0#ht_3182wt_1139 Actually, since now I know I can buy a 2511 and get a bezel for $13 to make it a 2501, that opens up options for finding a used one. I DO like the idea of buying from VE w, refurb warrantee though. If this machine was not so poor with sales, it would be an easy decision. Basically, I'm spending to eliminate a frustration for the account, not because I am losing much in sales...

IN your future shopping, avoid cold food accounts, especially if you are just starting out. They are a pain to manage and even harder to make money on. My perspective is that often a cold food machine should only be at an account that makes you big profit already on snack, soda and office coffee (w/ 250-300+ employees). With the spoilage factor, cold food is very hard to make money on. The machines are very expensive and the profit margins on product that you actually 'sell' (vs. throw away!) is smaller. Plus people give a lot more 'suggestions' for what you 'should' sell in that thing. A loosing combination.

Flavia is another single serving coffee product. Personally, I steer clear of these single cup products if you need to buy their machines and the product only comes from them, you pay much higher % for your product and are stuck with only their equipment. I do not know if K-cups are proprietary or several vendors make the machines and coffee products. In general, personally, I find office coffee more profitable than my vending. Definitely educate yourself on OCS. It is a business worth getting into. Especially if you are able to add it to existing vending accounts. My comments apply to 50+ people accounts. With smaller accounts you need to be more careful that your equipment will not take too long to pay off from that accounts profit. My ROI preference is 12 - 18 months. How many people does this account have? Do you have the (full size) snack and soda there?

Not as important now that you swapped the machine out, but yes, does the cash collected roughly match the # of cans sold? You do not want to be free vending!

If an account is easily ready to boot his current vendor with out you even pressing, he is obviously very unhappy with his current vendor. Especially with with very small accounts (<50), it is not uncommon for the vendor to service them MUCH less often and even poorly. Usually the reason is that account does not do enough volume for him/her to justify his time to go there (just to take out a few dollars and swap the aging (unsold) chips to newer dates. I have had, and now do again have accounts like this. It takes more time to swap out old product with new and try to add 'new things' to boost sales, than it does to fill a machine with normal sales volume. I called these my dink accounts. Their sales had dropped so much they had become more of equipment storage than selling product. I would load only a few deep on dated items because that is all it would sell in the 2 (or whatever) weeks until I was back. COming to these accounts weekly is depressing too. I call them snack 'aging' machines, not selling machines. Like you learning they had 15 people, I walk away if I cannot see a good reason (potential sales) to take on a new account. If I cannot project the purchase cost of the equipment being paid off in 12 months (maybe 18-24 mo. in this economy), I pass. Even if I have available equipment, I balance if it is worth my time to service the account. Snack aging machines are a bummer! Unfortunately, if you are in vending now, you probably have some of these.

s.weir, Glad you decided to pass on the original $35,000 purchase! Any serious, legitimate seller (especially one asking many thousands of dollars!) will have clear information on: number of locations, specific equipment at each location, gross monthly sales by location, which accounts have contracts and for how long, etc. Even if they cannot tell you right away, do not even consider them legitimate or serious if they are not willing to get back to you with that info. There is absolutely no reason for a seller not to fully describe exactly what he is selling. It is very common for people looking to buy a business to 'want to believe' rosy income scenarios. Very common! Over the years I have had a number of people contact me for advice on buying routes with counter top snack machines with 'wonderful stories' of the income and potential for this market. They say because these accounts are too small for regular vendors, there are tons of opportunities. The only person making money in this scenario is the equipment salesman selling you the highly overpriced machines, or a guy who bought a number of machines (to get a 'deal' hah!), still has half of them in his garage and is not making money on the ones on location! As stated above, buying a business REQUIRES that you become a detective to find out what must be known, even if the seller is reluctant to tell you. Do not take wishy washy, partial or' language barrier excuse'* answers. If a buyer wants to make a prudent purchase, he'll find someone who speaks the language to translate. A seller not wanting to fully disclose the info he should, will find endless ways to put you off. If you let him/her, you are greatly increasing your opportunity to be scammed or at least get a much poorer deal than you thought. Caveat emptor, let the buyer beware! My 2 bits... PS. On the $35,000 route. From your description, it sounded like the 3 locations were 3 separate buildings owned by the same company. ?? A huge red flag. They could be planning a big lay off, going out of business or just ready to throw him out! Personally, I would never contract to buy where the biggest sales accounts were not under (a strong) contract. Have him show the contracts to you !(company names can be blacked out to keep you from trying to bid them) Also, try to get some gaurantee that if an account drops you in say six months (not from your neglect or poor service) , you get some of your money back or an equivalent account. Verify, verify, verify!

Thanks to all for the warm welcome. I did find the snack/ soda vending forum to post my question about upgrading the validator on my older AP 6000 snack machine. The more research I do on this, more conflicting info I get. And this from the MEI Mars people as well as the local AP distributor! Hopefully the veterans here can help with their real world experience. Best to all, Dave

Hello, (sorry in advance for the mini novel below ;o) Brand new member here. Hoping I can get some info on the most economical upgrade for converting an Automatic Products 6600 snack bill validator. It has a TRC 6000 mech. The machine's VFM-L1-U4CS was serviced by a local shop less than a year ago and it has been getting bills stuck (≈ 2/3 way into stacker) after < 10 vends. (parts for this unavailable for VFMs for 10+ yrs) Rather than spend 'another' $100 to refurb. it, I have been told by MEI Mars and the local AP distributor (Betson) that I can replace it with a VN2501 and I would need a power adapter harness (MEI #01-12-078-4). 1) Crap, I just spoke to a 2nd service guy at the local AP distributor (Betson). He said VFM1 is a low voltage level interface (5volt logic pulse, even though the VFM unit itself is 110v). He said the VN2500 series is high level interface and cannot be used. I am getting conflicting info. :o/ 2) When bills ARE accepted, sometimes just after the $ bill credit shows in the display, the display goes blank. No credit is acknowledged and customer's $ is lost. In this instance, the bill is fully accepted into the stacker, just that the credit goes away. The Betson service guy said this could be an inconsistent connection in the communication harness (w/18 pin black conn.). 3) (this part is be academic if #1 above IS true.) I am a bit confused on which bezel a VN2501 is supposed to have. The '0' in 2501 is supposed to mean 'compact bezel'. I 'think' this is the one that has the ≈2"h x 3"w nose sticking through the machine's surface. MEI told me that the VN2501 is a direct replacement for a VFM, period. Even though MY VFM has a different bezel! The nose of mine is in the middle of the bezel, is ≈1"h and only protrudes 3/4" from the face of the bezel. This AP 6600 can only accept this size bezel. The cut out in the AP sheet metal is 1" x 3", not larger with 'adapter plates' for different bezel configs. like many Coke machines. For VN 2501s On ebay and other places, I have seen mostly the low/large (compact?) nose, but also the smaller 2"h nose in the middle (like I need). Here are ebay links showing both bezel styles: Large/low nose (compact?)....... http://cgi.ebay.com/mars-mei-vn2501-u5-115-vc-flash-port-vn-2511-/120595042573?pt=BI_Vending#ht_500wt_1154 Small 2"h in middle (The kind of bezel that I need)..... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330453037613&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1154 To add more confusion, Betson's parts guy told me that the 2501 is discontinued, that I need a 2601! argh... The location this machine is in has VERY minimal snack sales volume, so spending $100's is money down the hole (it is a decent OCS account though).

I just found this forum via Google when researching info to upgrade a bill validator on an Automatic Products 6600 snack machine. I have only been poking around a few minutes here, but thought I'd start by saying hello. I started with snack & soda vending in 1984, then added OCS (office coffee service) about 5 years later. Now I am focusing on office coffee and espresso for new business going forward. The pricier automated espresso business has been a tough sell in this economy, obviously. ;o) Does Vendiscuss cover snack and soda vending too, or just mainly bulk vending. Thanks, Dave