Vending Ethics

[Action Vending]

The debate about putting machines in without permission has sparked a new debate and I just wanted to hear other peoples ideas.

[newheart53]

I'll go 1st. I'll follow good salesmanship etiquite, and go for any account thats out there. Thats the job of a good salesman, try to be above board and truthfull about your business, stand on reputation [if your to new and don't have one yet then your appearence ans self confidence is whats going to sell clients on you over the comp. If you don't call on every possible acct. then you have no idea if the client is happy with the others or not,or if he needs something the other guys not offering. I've been in one sells field or another for quite a few years and have also owned my own stores [so have been behind the counter also. It always amazed me at the "salesman that are out there". Their either really obnoxious or so timid that you can scare the s___ out of them. You have to be able too sell yourself and believe in yourself, before you can sell someone anything.

I found the topic of gorrilla locating very interesting. I'm not going into that, to each his own. Myself I would not do that.

Thanks for reading.

[caserri]

Great topic Action. This should be very interesting. I look forward to following along with this one.

[kandyking]

I never take another vendors location unless he is doing a terrible job. I view owners that are quick to dump their existing vendors for me the same way I do a girl who cheats on her man with me. If she will cheat with you, she will cheat on you. Those locations you steal are just waiting to be stolen back from you.

Aside from that, I show other vendors the same respect I would want them to show me. If I covet their location, I will contact them and offer to buy it from them. Ultimately, location piracy will make enemies out of potential allies and when it comes time for them to sell their route, they will be happy to sit at the negotiation table with a vendor who has purchased (rather than stole) some of their locations already.

That being said, if someone is negligent and doing a terrible job for a location, I will happy offer my superior services. I do not view that as me stealing their location as much as them losing it.

[ronsidney]

now this is a split vote... I do not solicit amusement or crane locations that have machines already, unless its a known enemy that we have already crossed paths like say service vending then i will ...

but with bulk i will go after anything i can get, especially the dollar a month charity machines,mainly because i think that is fraud and dishonest so i make it a point to solicit those locations,(only the good ones,they can keep their quilt stores and vacuum sales showrooms etc.).even when i did charity it was always a commission, just like i would have given location.... and i would tell location how much their donation was for the year to that charity ..

.with the rack commission guys i have some alliances with guys and i want tread on their turf but others i will try too as they do the same to me..

I think bulk is more cutthroat than any biz on the planet, I never get upset when somebody takes a location from me, i just try to return the favor to them.. With amusements and stuff I pretty much have all the guys around me as buddies and we talk all the time,, not many of us cross boundaries and if i have a location in their area ill call them etc..the two other crane operators on both sides of me are best of friends of mine and we hang out at all the shows as none of us bring our wives to the shows ,we just sit and talk about vending and party...

it comes down to this... YOU DONT OWN A LOCATION!! get over it ,, every location you have you will someday lose,, your just renting space and make money as you go..hiring a locator is just dumb if you are a small operator as the "locating of machines" is the one job you should know how to do if you are a vending operator! to not locate yourself is like a having a painting business and not knowing how to paint, or owning a mechanics shop and not knowing how to change oil...sure you can get big enough that you can hire out the labor and then just sit around counting your money, but most people jus t starting this is most important part of being a vending operator..I guess you can keep pumping money into it and eventually it will make a profit, but don't cry when your locations you paid for get taken away..yeah you paid but you don't own squat!

ron

[Action Vending]

I guess the way I see it is that this is a business and I am here to make money not friends. I have a few allied vendors and I wouldnt solicit one of there locations. For everyone else I would rather find locations that have no machines then look for the vendors who are doing a poor job and as a last resort just solicit any and all locations. The reason this is last is fairly obvious and I dont like to do battle with other operators unless i have to. Once you start doing that you better be on the ball and expect to have your locations solicited and potentially lost.

[Nate9303]

I share very few of my 32 of my locations, but I don't feel bad about the ones I do share. I figure one of us will outlast the other. I'll give good service and find more locations when I lose a spot.

Is it ethical to "solicit another vendors location?" I don't think that's an ethics question like 'guerilla locating' or even the "so called charity vending scam" is? The two aforementioned topics could be viewed as ethical or unethical. They could be seen as right or wrong. Soliciting another's location is just business. Who can sell the best? Who can make the most money for the store? Who can give better service?

I guess it might be an "ethics" question if you are intentionally seeking out a certain vendors spots. But, That seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through.

[LandJGroup]

now this is a split vote... I do not solicit amusement or crane locations that have machines already, unless its a known enemy that we have already crossed paths like say service vending then i will ...

but with bulk i will go after anything i can get, especially the dollar a month charity machines,mainly because i think that is fraud and dishonest so i make it a point to solicit those locations,(only the good ones,they can keep their quilt stores and vacuum sales showrooms etc.).even when i did charity it was always a commission, just like i would have given location.... and i would tell location how much their donation was for the year to that charity ..

.with the rack commission guys i have some alliances with guys and i want tread on their turf but others i will try too as they do the same to me..

I think bulk is more cutthroat than any biz on the planet, I never get upset when somebody takes a location from me, i just try to return the favor to them.. With amusements and stuff I pretty much have all the guys around me as buddies and we talk all the time,, not many of us cross boundaries and if i have a location in their area ill call them etc..the two other crane operators on both sides of me are best of friends of mine and we hang out at all the shows as none of us bring our wives to the shows ,we just sit and talk about vending and party...

it comes down to this... YOU DONT OWN A LOCATION!! get over it ,, every location you have you will someday lose,, your just renting space and make money as you go..hiring a locator is just dumb if you are a small operator as the "locating of machines" is the one job you should know how to do if you are a vending operator! to not locate yourself is like a having a painting business and not knowing how to paint, or owning a mechanics shop and not knowing how to change oil...sure you can get big enough that you can hire out the labor and then just sit around counting your money, but most people jus t starting this is most important part of being a vending operator..I guess you can keep pumping money into it and eventually it will make a profit, but don't cry when your locations you paid for get taken away..yeah you paid but you don't own squat!

ron

Folks really put a lot of stock in "their" locations. I find this funny as well. People put equipment on me all the time. I really dont care as long as they maintain their machines. Just the nature of the business. The only unethical thing is making up fake charities or lie about the other company thats already there(happens to me all the time). I personally would never use a locator bc I really enjoy the game of finding accounts and making solid business relationships.

[havending]

I have been in this business since 1995 and even though there have been many changes one thing that remains the same is the never ending new guy. So what happens is there are always new operators all going for the same locations because lets face it there are more new operators than new locations. I have a couple of friends in the business that all respect each other and we will NOT go after each others locations. In fact we have a copy of each others keys and if one of us is out and about we will help each other out is we are near a out of order machine etc. But everyone else is fair game. I will do what ever it takes to get another location and boot the current operator. I will not lie or bad talk another operator but I will provide a location owner with the facts and let them make their own choice. For example we have an operator here in Alabama that tells locations he will pay 50%. But what he fails to tell them is that he first deducts 30% for product. So he is really paying 35%. I keep paper work from every major vending chairty in the van so that I can help inform locations owners of the truth when they are under the impression that the chairty machine is owned by the charity and all the income goes to help others. I share a ton of locations with Service Vending and I have a sales edge because I place good looking machines. One day I was at a super market that I service and the owner was there so after I serviced the machines we talked for about an hour. You see the owner has been a friend of mine for years and he owns 3 others that i also service. Well in wals a Service Vending guy that askes for the owner and the cashier pointed him out and he walked over and began to talk. We stood there and just listened. After hearing a few lies including a few about me the owner told him no thank you and he left. Since them I have been trying to take over every location of theirs I can.

One thing that has helped me get others bulk locations is that I also offer cranes and other redemption.

[Action Vending]

I have been in this business since 1995 and even though there have been many changes one thing that remains the same is the never ending new guy. So what happens is there are always new operators all going for the same locations because lets face it there are more new operators than new locations. I have a couple of friends in the business that all respect each other and we will NOT go after each others locations. In fact we have a copy of each others keys and if one of us is out and about we will help each other out is we are near a out of order machine etc. But everyone else is fair game. I will do what ever it takes to get another location and boot the current operator. I will not lie or bad talk another operator but I will provide a location owner with the facts and let them make their own choice. For example we have an operator here in Alabama that tells locations he will pay 50%. But what he fails to tell them is that he first deducts 30% for product. So he is really paying 35%. I keep paper work from every major vending chairty in the van so that I can help inform locations owners of the truth when they are under the impression that the chairty machine is owned by the charity and all the income goes to help others. I share a ton of locations with Service Vending and I have a sales edge because I place good looking machines. One day I was at a super market that I service and the owner was there so after I serviced the machines we talked for about an hour. You see the owner has been a friend of mine for years and he owns 3 others that i also service. Well in wals a Service Vending guy that askes for the owner and the cashier pointed him out and he walked over and began to talk. We stood there and just listened. After hearing a few lies including a few about me the owner told him no thank you and he left. Since them I have been trying to take over every location of theirs I can.

One thing that has helped me get others bulk locations is that I also offer cranes and other redemption.

There is a guy in my area with at least 2,000 heads who also tells everyone he pays 50% so I have been after some of his locations as I just dont like the way he operates. He paid a 75.00 commision to a loc that he had a rack with 2 30" nw 80's a 3 column sticker and 4) 1" machines. A few machines were empty and the rest were below 25% full. So I figure he gave them about 20% commission.

This same guy always counts the money in his van so I tell location owners if he trully gives you 50% next time he comes in ask him to count the quarters in front of you and see how much he gives you.

I dont like when people flat out lie to Locations makes us all look bad. If he wants to give them 10 or 20% be honest and tell the location that.

[nepavend]

I have few friends in the business and do not solicit if I see their machines but otherwise it is fair game. Like it was said, there are always new vendors coming in and eventually they will set up next to your machine. I do not like it but know that it will be gone in a year or two since I have outlasted 5 years worth of Vendstar charity machines being placed annually and then left to rot and empty out with no service.

Seeing machines in location is an indicator that it is a good prospect and you can also determine if the vendor is giving good service. But make no mistake about it, a lot of locations could care less if you give them 50%, it still is peanuts compared to their operation as a whole. If they want you out they will kick you out even if you are paying 80%. They just want good service and as little problems as possible. An extra roll or two of quarters is just free money or a saved trip to the bank for change.

I disagree with the statement of counting in front of all location owners. I have a few I count for since they ask for it, but in general I am pretty honest anyway. Sometimes you do not even know who the owner is in certain accounts. I do not lie about giving 50%. Controlling your cash flow is what keeps you in this business. If you give that up to all of your customers you may as well work for them instead of yourself. Just my opinion.

[mission vending]

Nothing wrong with competing with another vendor for a location as long you do it fairly and honestly.

[Smiley]

I will only try to kick out another operator if they have gone after me before or if the equipment or service is horrible. I would not say this is out of ethics as much as it is valuable to have truces with most of your competitors.

[Rick]

I will only try to kick out another operator if they have gone after me before or if the equipment or service is horrible. I would not say this is out of ethics as much as it is valuable to have truces with most of your competitors.

Same here. I also think this very much depends on the community and competing vendor demographic of the area you service.

[newheart53]

Let me see if I have this right.

You are going out to locate new accts., you call on the first place and find friend #1 machine in it so you turn around and leave.

Next stop you go in and find a nice looking rack filled, clean and well taken care of so you turn around and leave.

Next stop you go in and no machines so you talk to owner, but he says no so you turn around and leave.

Next stop you find friend #2 has machines there so you turn arond and leave.

The senerio goes on all day, I cann't begin to imagine any one would even be in business if that was the case.

Being in business for youself is a cutthoart experience and in order to survive you either have to have something no one else has or you have to offer better products or services than anyone else. Either way you have to sell yourself and if you are doing you utmost with every acct. then it won't matter if you enemy, your friend or any one else tries to take your acct. they won't be able too'

Thats why I stop every where and talk to the one in charge. If there is a chanceyour in luck if the other vendor is doing their utmost there won't be a chance, but at least you have left your card and spoken directly with the one in charge. JMO Thanks

[Smiley]

Newheart, if you are new to the business and have very few locations to 'defend' your approach might be more valid. You have more to gain and less to risk in trying to kick out other operators.

But lets say you had 100 good locations already and were making a decent living. Would you go after another large operator who had not been going after you? Because let me tell you what would happen if you did this to me. I would go after your stops using a combination of newer, more expensive machines, ridiculous commission rates, and upfront bonus money. All with the goal of costing you at least 3 times what you had cost me.

I would propose, in this scenario, it would be better for you to continue looking for virgin accounts and accounts where the machines were not being serviced.

[Rick]

To each his own newheart, but Smiley does have a good point especially once you're big enough that you have a lot at stake. Sometimes, discretion is the better part of valor. If you're bum-rushing every location with an attitude of, hey - this is a cutthroat business...well, that's all well and good as long as you're doing the throat cutting isn't it?

Just realize that no matter how big you are, there's always a vendor out there who's big enough to bury you if they were motivated enough to do it.

[Action Vending]

Its never a good Idea to cut your nose off to spite your face.

[newheart53]

I'm gona respond like this.

Your not a good salesman if you don't cover an area fully.

Your not a salesman at all if you have to buy a location [money lets a lot of people bully there way into accts]

Everybody has to start out small but if everybody follows your idea then they would always be small.

If your a good operator you would not be afraid of little ol me coming into your acct and talking to the owner. That tells me you have something to hide.

If you have 100 accts. you probably would not be locating, because that many accts should take up your time taking good care

of them. Then i couldn't take them from you.

Tell me this if I don't go into every acct. then how would I know which accts are "virgin" or which accts are not being seviced by a lax vendor.

I take it that you both have only done this line of sales. This is easy compared to what I've sold wholesale and distributor level.

Action vend could you elaborate as to which side you refering.

[Smiley]

"Tell me this if I don't go into every acct. then how would I know which accts are "virgin" or which accts are not being seviced by a lax vendor."

You walk in the front door. If there are no machines it is a vigin account. If there are multiple empty, broken, or run-down machines it is not being serviced properly.

[Action Vending]

I'm gona respond like this.

Your not a good salesman if you don't cover an area fully.

Your not a salesman at all if you have to buy a location [money lets a lot of people bully there way into accts]

Everybody has to start out small but if everybody follows your idea then they would always be small.

If your a good operator you would not be afraid of little ol me coming into your acct and talking to the owner. That tells me you have something to hide.

If you have 100 accts. you probably would not be locating, because that many accts should take up your time taking good care

of them. Then i couldn't take them from you.

Tell me this if I don't go into every acct. then how would I know which accts are "virgin" or which accts are not being seviced by a lax vendor.

I take it that you both have only done this line of sales. This is easy compared to what I've sold wholesale and distributor level.

Action vend could you elaborate as to which side you refering.

I am not siding with anyone, simply saying it is not a good Idea to retaliate by doing things like giving up front bonus money, extreme commissions and expensive equimpent to get back at some one or play war. Loosing money to prove a point is always a bad idea.

[newheart53]

Your still missing the point. If you walk thru the door,do you just scratch your a-- and walk out or do you follow thru with the intent you went in there for? If I'm calling on locations then thats exacally what I'm gonna do. If you hire a locating service do they care if you have good ol boys with machines? no they call everyone and try to set that location.

We can discuss this till the cows come home, but it still the same. There are no ethics in selling products or supplies. there is only personnal ethics of what you yourself will and will not do to make money. Remember prostitutes were the first sales people, and are still going strong.

[newheart53]

I am not siding with anyone, simply saying it is not a good Idea to retaliate by doing things like giving up front bonus money, extreme commissions and expensive equimpent to get back at some one or play war. Loosing money to prove a point is always a bad idea.

The question from before was not to choose sides just didn't know the full meaning of your statement. Thanks

[Rick]

Your still missing the point. If you walk thru the door,do you just scratch your a-- and walk out or do you follow thru with the intent you went in there for? If I'm calling on locations then thats exacally what I'm gonna do. If you hire a locating service do they care if you have good ol boys with machines? no they call everyone and try to set that location.

We can discuss this till the cows come home, but it still the same. There are no ethics in selling products or supplies. there is only personnal ethics of what you yourself will and will not do to make money. Remember prostitutes were the first sales people, and are still going strong.

It's not about ethics. It's about self-preservation. Regardless, I agree with you...I think we're done here. Something about this topic has really agitated you and maybe it's just a lesson you'll have to learn the hard way. I hope you don't.

[havending]

Vending has always had good ol boys clubs. Most every larger operator has a group of friends that they work with and they each look out for. There is a ton of networking in this business and we share a lot of info. But if I come across just a run of the mill operator that I don't know I will try to take his location every time.

But not the guy I play golf with. I finally took one this week that I had been working on for a couple months in Montgomery, AL its a very large China Buffet and has a crappy rack and I finally got them to kick the guy and let me in. I let them pick the machine colors and even let them pick a crane. If I want a location I will do what ever it takes but I wont kick my buddy in the nuts.

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