Anyone Up For Ice Vending?

[EdSurly]

AZ, the new solenoid did come with a new plunger...but I reused the old plunger as it already had the return springs installed and the clip that holds them on was pretty difficult to put on.  I figured it's just a solid piece of steel so what's the difference?  I pulled the old plunger out of the solenoid and put it in the new solenoid.  I was going to check the voltage with my DVOM when I went to the machine today (I had my yearly health inspection from the state health department today) but I forgot the DVOM  I'll do it tomorrow evening when I go back to the machine.  It will be a light sales day today as it's been raining and cloudy since early this morning.

 

tafelice; the signs aren't just vinyl slapped on the side of the machine, the machine is covered in an aluminum sheeting with "hammered" dimples all over it...it's textured so the sign company put the custom printed vinyl on a smooth aluminum substrate and the price included installation on the machine.  And yes, there is one much wider at the front of the machine where I had to spell out everything that gets done to the water/ice and it's original source...that was required by the health department.  The lettering on the east side is starting to peel also, but it's degrading slower than the lettering on the west side, so I only replaced the west side lettering.  Here's a pic from the front of the machine;

 

 

For water sales I can't measure how many 5 gal vends versus 3 or 1 gallon only total gallons sold...and in the above post I was wrong about the water quantity...I have sold over 18,000 gallons of water not 15,000.  The water meter is connected to the water vend unit so that total number is a real number but the water vender doesn't keep track of individual vends.  It would be nice if it did so any speculation about what percentage is 5 gal versus single gallon vends would be just that....speculation.  I'd give an educated guess that 5 gallon vends are probably at a minimum 30% of total water vends.  If theres an error there it would be that 30% is on the low side.  I see alot of people buying water with those large containers.  I've only seen one or two people with 3 gal containers.  Most people buy the water in 1 gal containers.  Some folks pull up with the bed of their pickups full of empty 1 gal containers and fill them all.  I asked one guy why he didn't have the 5 gal containers.  He said they were too heavy for him to handle.  I never really thought about that, since then I have noticed that older folks use the 1 gallons and the 5 gallon containers are used by younger people...younger as in 60 or less. 

 

My water bill has never been more than the minimum; $68/mo.  The last electricity bill I got (I'm due for my next bill anyday) was the highest I've received so far...it was $460 which was almost double the previous month.  In the winter the elect bill was in the $60-$80 range..climbing to $250 or so by June and finally the big bill I got last month.  So, I'm more than just a little worried about what it will be this month.  Because of the varying electric cost...and the varying ice sales I can't really give you a percentage of electricity costs.  By August the 30th I will be able to do that for the year and I will do that.  But yes, the cost of money is by far the largest expenditure every month....it's brutal.  

<< I edited the pic to remove the brand name (even though I figure most folks probably know which manufacturer it is by now...I'm still not going to mention it) and my phone number.

[EdSurly]

I can tell you a percentage of cash sales versus credit card/debit card sales for the month of June.  7.9% of my June sales were with the credit/debit card reader.  Damn near worthless in my opinion...

[AZVendor]

Yeah, that is a pretty low percentage of card to cash sales, but it's because you don't have a high price point.  However, you don't want to turn anyone away so it's best to have it on the machine.  Besides, you are providing better service than any ice machine in the world so the card reader adds to the customer satisfaction level.

[Walta]

In the video the solenoid is fully depressing the coin return lever.

The coin return lever is meant to clear a single bent coin or two.

It was never intended to deal with the big jam showed in the video.

You may want to check that the chute to the cash box is not jammed.

 

I think it is possible you have not fully cleared the coin jam.

You should test by following steps.

1 Manually fill all of the coin tubes to their full capacity.

2 Empty the cash box.

3 Insert a quarter.

4 Verify the machine gives .25 credit.

5 Verify that a quarter fell in the cash box.

6 Press coin return and retrieve quarter from change cup.

 7 Keep repeating steps 3 to 6 until the coin does not go to the cash box, but is instead directed to the change tubes.

8 Send at least 6 coins into and out of the coin tube.

9 Repeat with steps 2 to 8 with nickels, dimes and dollar coins.

 

Walta

[EdSurly]

In the video the solenoid is fully depressing the coin return lever.

 

In the video I depressed it by hand.  The solenoid alone will not depress the lever..and I'm getting a good 24v DC to the button.  No one came while I was there...so I couldn't test the solenoid when the button is pushed.  I may have a bad button...too much resistance for some reason and the solenoid isn't getting enough current to operate like it should.  I waited around for a while but it was time to get back home to the family for dinner.  I'll make sure I have someone with me next time to check it thoroughly.  Or, heck I guess I could get a wad of paper and duct tape to keep the button depressed.  Wish I would have thought of that while I was at the machine! lol 

 

And my coin tubes all stay completely filled except for the two dollar tubes.  Those I have to refill weekly.  I haven't had to add any coins to any of the other tubes since I filled them on day one.

[Walta]

I would add a second coin return switch on the inside so you can troubleshoot the machine.

 

Then measure the voltage applied to the coil.

 

Walta

[EdSurly]

Voltage to the solenoid is 23.85...plenty to run the 24v solenoid.  The manufacturer says to decrease the length of the plunger, so as to increase the length of the "free space" between the plunger and the lever so the solenoid gets a better "run" at the lever.  I've done that, increasing the gap to over 1/3" but it's till not depressing the coin return lever all the way.  It's starting to piss me off!  I guess I'll just make it as short as I can while still having enough plunger travel to depress the level all the way.  If that doesn't work....heck I don't know.  Maybe get a 12v solenoid and hope the windings don't burn out.

[AZVendor]

I think you'll damage a 12v solenoid by putting 24v to it.  It kind of sounds like the solenoid is not designed for the job it's trying to do.  A different solenoid design or maybe a 110v version running at 110v would be better?

[tafelice]

I'm sure you tried mashin' on it by hand.  Does the manual throw or the manual pressure make sense with what the solenoid is trying to do?

Is the lever on the CR perhaps turning on an arc and the solenoid is straight on?

Can you attach something on the lever to shorten the throw the plunger has to make to make it work?

 

And I'm no electronics expert but I bet someone could suggest something you could put on your 24V input to knock it down to 12V.  like a resistor or something, idk

 

or perhaps a different 24V solenoid. 

 

You could use a solid state switch to accept your 24V input as a trigger to start a 110V solenoid.

 

Post it when you solve it. -interested

[tafelice]

I watched your vid on the other page again, and it looks like when the rep said it doesn't work like that he might have meant with a straight on plunger.  The plunger goes straight down but the lever "rotates" clockwise bringing the "finger pad" to the right of the plunger and the working end of the plunger kind of "working UP" the lever arm getting less vertical throw on the lever by the plunger.

 

I would hook the plunger so that when it was depressed it would text you and you could come down and manually mash the lever.

Okay, sorry, couldn't resist,

If you could install something on the finger pad of the lever so as to extend its reach out to the left some, as it rotated away your new surface would engage the plunger at a higher level and therefore get more depression to the lever.

or

move the solenoid to the right to begin right at the rightmost tip of the fingerpad.

 

The idea of giving the plunger a "running start" by moving it up doesn't seem to make much sense in this case.

or if you could angle the plunger/solenoid so that it THREW from Northeast to southwest keeping the work end of the plunger kind of in line with the arc of the lever you would get full range on the lever.

[Walta]

When you measured 23.85 was the solenoid connected or not?

 

Is the coin return switch connected directly to the solenoid or is there a computer in between?

 

Do not put a 12 volt solenoid in the circuit before you understand how this circuit works.

If you over load the 24 volt circuit what fuse will blow? When that fuse is blown will the rest of the machine still function or not?

If you are buying a new solenoid look for a 24 volt one that will draw more current than the present one.

If you must go to a lower voltage consider adding a high wattage resistor to limit the current flow to match the solenoids rating. Also an extra fuse would not a bad idea.

Before you install a higher voltage solenoid, consider a few year ago someone found that spitting the machine full of a conductive salt water solution would make some machines free vend. You do not want to deal with the dead thefts mother.

 

 

Walta

[EdSurly]

Well, I got it working shortly after my last post.  I increased the distance between the plunger and the lever by almost a half an inch...which gave the plunger more speed before it ran into the lever.  It works, though not as well as it should.  The "door" doesn't open all the way but it will dispense change reliably.  The solenoid is just a little too weak.  

 

btw. just 6 more days and it will have been a year since I put it in.

[AZVendor]

Good job, Ed.  Glad you got it performing better, and "almost" congratulations on your one year anniversary!

[Nick505]

Ed thanks for your post and follow ups. This is a great thread and took a lot of effort on your part. Thanks again.

[EdSurly]

Just a quick post to show this weeks sales against this same week's sales one year ago.  As you guy's remember Aug. 30 marked my first year with this machine so I figured I'd do a little comparing to what the machine did a year ago versus what it's done this year.  One year ago, the 7 day week from Friday, Aug. 30 through Thursday Sept. 5 I had sold 316 bags.  This year from Friday, Aug. 29 through Thursday Sept. 4 I have sold 622 bags of ice....just 10 bags short of doubling my sales for the same week one year later.  The weather this week has been similar to last year as well, 100's almost every day.  Here's a little run-down from the summer months this year;

 

May;  1,269 bags

June; 1,810 bags

July;  2,536 bags

Aug.  2,307 bags

 

One year ago for September I sold 1,026 bags.  I'm fairly certain I won't double that figure but I know I'll beat it badly.  I'm looking forward to another year of ice vending!

[CardFan]

Ed,

 

Can't thank you enough for your detailed posts.  I can't speak for everyone, but your knowledge and experiences as an actual vendor have been invaluable to me.  Would you happen to have any more information/insight you can share since your last post?  How's your 2nd winter compared to your first?

[tafelice]

I echo Cardfans sentiments.  Always looking forward to a new post from Ed.

[EdSurly]

This will probably be my last post on this topic.  I won’t say who, but someone influential with me berated me for posting so much information about the business...they couldn't understand why I was freely sharing "my business" that’s nobody else’s but my own. 

 

One last update before I go.  Since I passed the one year mark, I started figuring the percentage increase for each month year over year.

For September, which was the first full month ending for a year over year comparison.  I saw a 39% increase in gross sales for the month.

 

October  77% yoy increase for the month

November 74%  yoy increase for the month

December 100% yoy increase…yes, I doubled my gross take for December.  But remember, a doubling of "piss poor" still only gets you "pretty crappy" lol

January 21% yoy increase.  The winter we had this year and last year was brutal…after last year I was cozy with the thought that it would be a long, long time before having another winter like that.  But this year has been just as bad if not worse.  The ice machine was off, without any ice in the bin for a minimum of two weeks this January.  And it STILL did 21% more than last year.

 

February 72.5% yoy increase.

 

For this month (March) I have already surpassed what I did last year by the 16th. I expect another 70% increase.  If these increases each month stay through the summer, I will no longer be worrying about how I will pay for this machine.  It really will be paying for itself.

Well guys, hope everyone enjoyed the information about my endeavor.  Hopefully these increases in gross sales stay through the summer.  If they do, I will be purchasing another machine.  And I will probably be going back to the same manufacturer.  I feel comfortable troubleshooting  problems that arise and it has been trouble free since  the “wet behind my ears” has dried.

 

Ed

[tafelice]

Thank you Ed.  You're a bright guy.  I'm sure you know how to "dial back" the posts to a level of abstractness that would keep you legal.  Keep your camera out of the inside (and even the outside of the machine) and you should be okay.  Honestly, even though those technical (very technical) posts were interesting I just enjoyed your blog like characterization of a man on a new venture in an area of vending not well known to the vending public.  One of the best threads I have ever read.  If you do have to drop the thread completely I will understand but still, and I think I speak for several devotees of this thread, once or twice a year, speaking generally would still be much anticipated.

 

Very happy you are doing well.  I think your information could only be helpful to your brand and area of vending.  Continued good luck and I hope to hear from you sometime.

[pjvend]

There is NO possibility of a profit.

[treadmill]

There is NO possibility of a profit.

Why do you say that?

[AZVendor]

This will probably be my last post on this topic.  I won’t say who, but someone influential with me berated me for posting so much information about the business...they couldn't understand why I was freely sharing "my business" that’s nobody else’s but my own. 

 

Ed, thank you for being so open minded about your venture into this area of vending.  I honestly don't know who would have berated you for doing only what this site was intended for - sharing your vending experience.  If you haven't gotten into this business in a franchise situation then you are entitled to share as much about your business as YOU feel comfortable with.  If it was the machine manufacturer or rep who chided you about this then they are very short-sighted and I urge you to ignore their ignorance.  If every vending manufacturer thought that experiences with their equipment should not be shared with anyone else then no manufacturer would have ever survived in this business. 

 

If instead, it was someone from this site who suggested this issue to you then I would consider that to be bullying as you let out no trade secrets, proprietary supplier information or any suggestion of your profits and losses other than generalizations.  I do hope this wasn't another case of an unhappy supplier or manufacturer not liking any possible negative comments about their wares and then threatening this site to take down any posts such suppliers deemed offensive. 

 

I say stick to your guns and do what you feel is right and in the best interests of the members here, and that is to learn about ice vending should they ever have an interest in that line of business.  If it was your wife, your attorney or, god forbid, your accountant then I would only listen to the attorney and only to the extent of protecting yourself legally.  I do know that the wife also has to be comfortable and happy though. 

 

I have certainly learned a lot about this through your experiences and I thank you for sharing it with us.  I hope to see more of your posts in the future and good luck to you, regardless.

[tafelice]

Why do you say that?

@treadmill:  I'm not saying the guys a troll but his post(s) are troll like.  You have a guy like Ed, posting long thought out, reasoned, detailed posts and those who follow writing complex thought out posts, then you have the above with a "one line" "cutting" "troll-like" statement.  You just have to .. consider the source, that's all I'm saying.

[IceVendingProfits]

Hey Ed. It's great to hear success more of these kind stories from entrepreneurs in the ice vending industry. I work at Argosy Ice and talk with people everyday that are either entrepreneurs that are already in the business or looking to get into the business to earn extra income. I read through your posts on here and you're exactly right. Just like any business, it's all about LOCATION, marketing strategy, and providing convenience to your customers. 

 

I work at Argosy Ice, and we manufacture ice & water vending machines here in the USA. We do not make the enormous machines that cost $100k that are the size of a mobile home. There's simply not a market for that size and is very tough for that to be a profitable investment. Our models cost much less and are specifically designed for locations that sell 30-60 bags of ice a day and sell filtered water too (c-stores, liquor stores, marinas, etc).

 

I'd love to chat with anyone who's looking to get into the business and give them pointers on what to look for in locations, equipment, and advertising. Private message me or email me. 

 

-Henry

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJX6_HnA3g0 

[S2Rider]

BUMP this thread. Ed, if you are still on site I would love to hear and update on your experience.

Thanks

Randell