DN368 SII and Coinco Validator

[MrByte]

Newbie here to vending, fairly accomplished computer hardware geek, but this puzzles me.

I'm relatively sure my machine is MDB, the acceptor that was in it originally is a BA30B.  It has issues, possibly just belts would fix it.  I have at hand a Mag50B and a BP2BX.  They both are off eBay, the 50B was supposed to take new 5's and doesn't.  The seller sent me the BP2BX, which has a "2008 $5" lable on it, yet it also rejects 5's.

 

Last night, on eBay I found (to my surprise) a Vantage model VL61B41US01, which according to the manual should connect to MBD.  As it was listed as working great for $55, I figured it was a steal of a deal.

 

Sorry to be so long winded.  On my SII board, there is the standard 6-pin MDB plug, that with no validator plugs into a harness from the coin mech.  There is also a 9-pin plug with 6 pins populated.  The BA30B and the Mag50B use both the MDB (it patches into the MDB between the mech and SII) and the 9-pin plugs into the computer board on the side of each.  The BIllpro doesn't have a place for the 9-pin, from what I get this is normal.

I don't have the Vantage yet, I hope it will solve this issue, and accept $5's.

My problem is that when the validators are plugged in, I can feed them a dollar bill (no 5's) and they will accept it and the display, which I assume is hooked to the SII reads 1.00.  Then I cannot feed anymore bills.  This wouldn't be an issue, except I have one column priced at $2.00 and the rest are $0.50 each.

Is the shutdown of the acceptor normal?  I assumed it would let me feed it bills, at least until it got to $2.00. 

The BA30B is in pieces, and one of the motors is disconnected (re-solder needed) so I'd have to try to make it run (doubtful) to test.

If it's normal, then I hope the Vantage will take $5's, but I'd rather be able to feed 2 singles and not have to worry about a run on quarters.

This machine is in my lounge at my shop, and aside from this, works most beautifully.

Thaks in advance.

 

[AZVendor]

Welcome to the forum MrByte.

 

On any bill validator you must turn the $5 switch on in order for it to accept 5's, if it's capable of it software-wise.  On the Coinco validator this is DIP switch 6.  To access the switch block on the BA or Mag series you must remove the bill box and then you will see the switches through a small window in the validator's control box.  If you turn the $5 switch on and it won't take 5's then you don't have the proper software installed in the validator.  It's not advisable to attempt repairing these yourself as there can be many other issues that belts alone won't fix.  In addition, the Ebay route is hit and miss as you have no idea what condition the items you buy are in.  The prices you quoted are less than what it costs to rebuild and repair one of the units so they are likely "take off" units that worked when they came off the machine.

 

Unfortunately you have been throwing parts at a problem before you knew what the problem was and now you will have parts left over once you get this working properly.  Please post any questions here before spending any money and we can help you diagnose any problems you might have.

 

To help you with the multiple bill acceptance we need to know if you have an SII board or an SIID board.  The SII has two mode buttons on the front of it and the SIID has only one.  What you need to do to enable multiple bill acceptance is to set your bill escrow option to a proper setting.  If you have an SII board this is the programming manual:  http://69.129.141.51:8080/RD/techbulletins.nsf/e667893fe32caf4785256bcd0066752b/ca783b510f0acb2385256bcd00657459/$FILE/SII_programming.pdf

 

If you have an SIID board then this is the programming manual:  http://69.129.141.51:8080/RD/techbulletins.nsf/e667893fe32caf4785256bcd0066752b/3acd8d2723129e5f85256bcd006569ee/$FILE/SIID_2btn_programming.pdf

 

Good luck and let us know what your result is.

[MrByte]

Hi AZVendor,

I have 2 buttons on my unit, I believe it's an SII.  It's the DN368 that I asked how to load 2-cans deep in that other forum.  Thanks again for the info there, it's loaded to the gills now ;-)
 

I've programmed the MAG and the BP2, so I'm sure it's software for the lack of $5 acceptance.  I'm hoping the Vantage will fix that, then I can dump the Mag and BP back to eBay and hopefully make back my investment on them.

I've tried all the escrow settings, they all do the same thing for me, on both of the acceptors.  I might be chasing my tail here, but I noticed in the Coin drop/fill section that you can fill the coin mech and it will count the change as you put it in.  I thought maybe this might be a source if the coin mech is telling the SII that it only has a few coins, the SII will block more dollars..? 

In any case, when I put coins in thru the front, they drop out the bottom into the coin return.  If I put them in the back (it's a Coinco 9300 series, like a tan color) the display does nothing. 

I can feed a dollar, and that gets registered, and even though the dollar acceptor is locked, I can feed it 4 quarters and get to 2.00, which is the max price I have for a vend.  Extras get sent to coin return.


I'm back to the manual to see if there's anything that I can figure out.

[AZVendor]

You want to make the choice of ES-1 in your escrow settings.  That will accept bills into the stacker until the last bill inserted exceeds the highest vend price and then that bill will be held in escrow (in the belts) until a vend is made. 

 

When you are at C-D for paying change out or filling the coin mech, you will then simply drop coins into the top of the coin mech and the machine will count those coins into the tubes while showing the total amount you're adding on the display.  When a tube gets full the remaining coins will go to the coin box.  If coins are rejected that means you're feeding them too fast.

 

These two things should solve your problem unless you need an updated Eprom in your logic board.  You still didn't mention which board your machine has.

 

If you use the Vantage validator you'll need to visit the Coinco website for instructions on how to enable the 5's as there are no switches to turn on - it's done by moving the antitheft fingers in the transport assy.

[MrByte]

I have the SII, not the IID.

On C-D when trying to fill, the coins never go into the mech storage columns, always into the return. This is when I feed them thru the coin slot in the front, I figured "top (separator)" meant that...cursed manual...or flip the mech out on it's hinges and feed them thru the funnel. 1 at a time, all go to the return/out the bottom.

ES-1 (or E-S1 on my display) still locks down the acceptor after 1 dollar is fed and registered.

I've looked over the Vantage manual, I think it's programmed like the BP, flick switch, look at the LED's.

Going on the "eprom needs update" road, is the SIID a drop-in upgrade?

[AngryChris]

It's possible that your coin mech is messed up. I don't want you to buy another coin mech without knowing that but it's possible (I suppose) that the coinmech is saying It's full. Meanwhile, the board says your coinmech is too low.

Try buying a few things and see if the coins go in the mech. Also while in coin dump mode, try nickels and dimes too. The machine should work if the dimes and nickels are full (and the board recognizes that).

As for $5 bill acceptance, your coinco BP should be setup for New 5's once programmed. If you programmed it right, I think it flashes a certain number of times. It's been a while but I think I had to press on the rake things four times until it flashed.

I'm not sure about the mag and the new 5's but I think they can be updated. Most coinco BA's cannot be updated. I buy coinco BP's whenever I find a deal. They all take 5's once programmed.

[MrByte]

I seem to have the BP programmed properly, it flashes like 3 times after I depress the lever to exit programming mode.  Though I have been testing things mostly with the Mag, as it has a place for that 9pin cable that the BP lacks. I was thinking it was needed, but I guess with MDB it's not.  But the BP will feed a 5, then spit it out.  It was the replacement that was sent for the Mag, which I paid $77.50 for.  Seemed like a good price for a Mag with the update.

I'm not sure where to go from here, but I think an updated S-II eprom might be a good idea in any case.  I located an S-II eprom version 371 or somthing like that for under $30 bux, not on eBay.  But if an SIID can be retrofitted into this machine, they are on eBay for under $50.  I kinda like using eBay, as I usually get working stuff, but a few times I've have to hold the seller's feet to the fire courtesy of PayPal.

 

I'll take a look at coin mechs, and maybe pull mine and clean it, see if there's anything weird inside.  I noticed the "Exact Change" light when on, does not go out even after I've loaded some change, unless I power down the vender, then power it up again.

[AngryChris]

That's a major detail.

[MrByte]

Could be the sensors are dirty/bad, I guess.  I'll tear the mech down carefully and see what there is to see.

[AZVendor]

It's entirely possible that even your BP isn't loaded with current software for new currency.  The fact that it pulls the bill in doesn't have anything to do with the software other than it rejects the bill because it doesn't recognize it.

 

You also can not put an SIID board into a machine with an SII board as the harnessing is different.  Dixie Narco used to have a retrofit kit to update an SII machine to SIID but I'm not sure if they carry that kit any longer, as old as the SII is now.

[MrByte]

So, I should verify the coin mech is working properly, and once/if it is, then if the acceptor is still locking down aftrer 1 bill, I need the eprom?

[MrByte]

Ok, removed the coin mech.  It's a coinco 93002GX. I found little, really, inside, it could use a bit of cleaning, but nothing jumped out at me.  I reinstalled it, powered up, and fed it coins.  In vend mode, it routes coins to the tubes properly, and after filling, it routes them into the cash box. 

 

Putting the SII into C-D mode, the coins run to the coin return. Guessing from the manual that AZVendor linked me to, I'm thinking I have an old-arse SII board/eprom. 

Powered down again, hooked in the BP2, still locks down after 1 bill.  Verified the escrow setting is E-S1, but the bill is not held on the belts, it's put into the stacker.  I believe this is proper, as I have a $2 item in the machine.  I didn't think to try putting in $1 in change then feeding the bill to verify escrow, but aside from the lack of new 5 acceptance, I don't think this is a setting on the Mag or BP anymore.

What's involved with an eprom change/upgrade?

[MrByte]

Let me clarify, I'm sure the BP and Mag aren't upgraded for new currency. It kinda looked in my last that I thought new 5's would work if I flipped a setting somewhere...

[AZVendor]

No, this issue is not related to your validators.  I would recommend trying the other escrow settings to see if one of them will allow you to insert more than one bill.  It would not be surprising if a setting that we think would work, doesn't actually work the way we think it would.

 

But first, let's make sure we haven't overlooked the obvious: make certain you actually have a selection priced over $1 and that you have product in that column, properly adjusted, so the machine doesn't think the column is sold out.  I've helped people before who didn't have any higher prices actually saved in the machine so the machine would need to take more than one bill - or the machine actually sees the only higher priced selection as "sold out" and therefore doesn't need to take more than one bill at that time.

 

The eprom would be the last resort and it would be an easy change.  We'd need to know what eprom you have now to compare to what is available.

[MrByte]

Monster is the $2 vend, it works with no problem on coins, and pressing the button displays 2.00 as it should. The  I'll verify the escrow settings and behavior on each.

Basic question, I've been doing my testing with the door switch not pressed, as it didn't seem to make a difference.  Is that a factor?

[AZVendor]

The door switch is used to put the machine in the service mode when the door is opened and the switch plunger releases.  When you close the door the plunger is pressed in and puts the machine into the vend mode with no access to the service features.  When the door is open and in the service mode, you can pull the switch plunger out farther to its outer position which will simulate the vend mode as if the door was closed.  You can generally use coins and bills whether in the vend mode or service mode and if the machine is accepting any money it does not matter what mode you're in.

[MrByte]

More weirdness here.  I put in 4 quarters, then fed a dollar, and vended the monster.  Then I was able to put in 2 dollar bills, no sweat, vend again.  NOW it takes 5's too.

Coinmech sensor not counting coins? When I hit coin-return it spit 50 dimes at me.

[AZVendor]

This tells us that your coin mech isn't detecting that it has sufficient change when it was rejecting the bills.  You need to turn your power off, remove all your change from the tubes, go into the C-D setting and fill your coin mech through the top of the coin mech by dropping coins consecutively into it.  The display will count the value of the coins as they are counted into the tubes and you can mix the coins as you do this.  It doesn't sound like you performed this step and that you simply hand-filled the tubes with coins.  When connected via MDB, quite often the machine needs to know the COUNT of coins in the tubes as well as be able to look to the tube sensors.

[MrByte]

On my SII, C-D doesn't let me fill my tubes.  It drops to the return.  The instructions on the door end with how to dump coins, nothing like what you linked.  I think I have a very very old SII board/eprom.

Also, after I got it to feed 2 dollars for 1 vend, I opened the door up to get my dollars back, and swap out the acceptor to test the Mag. So I powered down, swapped, powered up, closed the door, and was back to the 1 dollar only mode, until I fed it some change.

It's not sensing the coins in the mech, or never tries to, and only counts coins dropped into it in vend mode.  Then it loses the setting when it gets powered down/up.  This actually doesn't surprise me, but it'd a real pain.

[AZVendor]

If your board isn't letting you fill the tubes in mode C-D then you need to replace your board.  It sounds like there is a problem with it, especially if it loses track of how many coins have been put in the tubes after power is removed.  You could get around this by filling the tubes 3/4 of the way and then making purchases with coins to fill them the rest of the way - then don't turn the power off.  This should allow the board to keep the coin count memory and as long as some coins are used by your customers the board should track sufficient change to allow the multiple bills and 5's to be used. 

 

You may also have a bad coin mech since it paid all dimes for the refund of the $5 bill you put in, basically ignoring the fact that the quarter tube was full.

 

If you need good rebuilt parts for this you can send me a PM.

[AngryChris]

At this point, the cheapest and easiest thing to do is to swap out the coin mech with a known-good MDB coin mech... or you can have yours rebuilt.

 

It is also possible that your board is bad.  However, I think that my original idea was on the mark regarding the coin mech + board not communicating properly, which usually means the coin mech is messed up.

 

AngryChris 2;   AZVendor 578

 

I'm catching up to you, Randy.

[MrByte]

I'm not sure.  The lack of a coin-fill mode on my SII board leads me to believe it's a very very old eprom/board working as programmed, and the mech will load coins into the tubes, but only in vend mode. Once the board has counted coins, it seems that all is well.

The lack of coin-fill instructions on the inner door, and the behavior of the system seem to indicate this is normal for the system.  No I'm no expert, but that's my hunch, now that I have more knowledge on the thing.

Randy is going to look into an eprom upgrade, but lacking a less expensive option, I'll likely set one of my selects to the max vend price (I think it's 12.50) then load the mech with change, vend a couple of times, then reset the price back to normal.

If this was out on a route, I could justify spending on a board, but as it's in the lounge of my store, and I got this machine for all of $50 (it was legit, guy had it in his man cave) I'm not quite prepared to spend too much more on it currently.  I count my blessings that it  gets cold, vends properly, and only has a few quirks ;-)

There's a mech on fleabay right now on the cheap with a claim of refurbishment/good working, I might try it, and with the arrival of the (hopefully working-as-claimed) Vantage acceptor, I can cash out on the Mag and Billpro. The mag only takes 1's, but the BP2 takes 1's and 5's, as it should.  

[MrByte]

At this point, the cheapest and easiest thing to do is to swap out the coin mech with a known-good MDB coin mech... or you can have yours rebuilt.

 

It is also possible that your board is bad.  However, I think that my original idea was on the mark regarding the coin mech + board not communicating properly, which usually means the coin mech is messed up.

 

After a bit more work this weekend past, it seems maybe there's 2 issues here.  Primarily the old eprom lacking a coin fill function is one, and it's possible the coin mech is fubar as well, as it seems able to sense it has lots of dimes, but quarters not so much.  But AZVendor is getting me some info on an eprom, so I think since that definitely needs an upgrade, I'm doing that first, then we'll see if the coin mech is really fubar or if it's just my bad testing habits.

[AngryChris]

Would you know... I just swapped out a BA32SA (with an MDB harness) for a coinco BP and it won't take 5's...  The first odd thing is that it took a "new" 2008+ 5 dollar bill on the FIRST TRY.  This bill was so soft it was like a tissue... and it took the 5 perfectly, registered 5.00 on the display (USI 3129), and gave the 5 dollar bill back upon hitting the coin return.  I strutted out of the account like a proud vendor that just upgraded their snack machine to take 5's.

 

The next day, I got a call notifying me that the machine will not take 5's.  I checked it out today but I had to cut my diagnostics short because they had to close down for the day.  I have a few things that I am going to try to do though.

 

1)  I am going to see if there's any kind of a tube-fill option on this model.  If there is, I am going to perform a tube-fill.

 

2)  I am going to bring a known-good BP2BX with me to see if the problem seems to be validator-related or board-related.

 

3)  If the problem is consistent with both validators, I will bring OLD 5's as well as NEW 5's to see if any of those work.

 

4)  If NO 5's work, I will see if I have to set any prices to enable 5 dollar acceptance.

 

I'm sure I programmed the validator properly but I was flabbergasted that this will not take any 5's after I WATCHED it take a 5 on the very first try (it was the FIRST bill after installation of the validator).  There were no 5's in the bill-box nor would it take any new 5's when i got there.  Mind-baffling, it is.

[AngryChris]

Update:  After doing some quick research, I found coinco's BP manual with a 2004 date at the bottom of it.  It's very possible that the first Bill Pros were manufactured around 2004 and were not setup for new currency.  If that's the case, it seems as though anyone certified to work on coinco products can easily upgrade the software to take the new 5's.