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DN 414 jackpotting?


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I have a DN 414 with an S II board (not S II D) and a TRC 6000 that jackpots every couple months.  At first, I thought it was a fluorescent light but I can't confirm that the nearby bulbs (in the ceiling) are the culprit.  There is no bulb in the snack machine next to it and I believe that the bulbs in the soda machine are long dead.  I suppose it's possible that the existing bulbs (if there are any in there, I forgot to check that) could be giving some feedback and causing something but I figured I would ask around first.  Any ideas?  Could it be a board issue?  I am going to run another coin mech there in a couple of weeks on my next service cycle.

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I will check the ground wires AND the cord on my next delivery.  Are the SII board known for jackpotting at all?  The coin mech is probably due to be swapped out anyway but I don't think a coin mech can jackpot on its own... at least not in the same way that a machine with a board can.  It's a TRC 6000.

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The SII boards aren't known for that so it is probably some interference, voltage feeding back into the machine from a dirty ground or maybe a bad coin mech which can jackpot on its own.  To check for a dirty ground, at the outlet you will measure for 110v from Hot to ground then for 0v from Neutral to ground and, of course, 110v from Hot to Neutral.  There should be 0v from Neutral to ground with 2v being the most you should ever see between those terminals.  The Neutral is the large spade slot and the Hot is the small spade slot.

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I have a DN 414 with an S II board (not S II D) and a TRC 6000 that jackpots every couple months.  At first, I thought it was a fluorescent light but I can't confirm that the nearby bulbs (in the ceiling) are the culprit.  There is no bulb in the snack machine next to it and I believe that the bulbs in the soda machine are long dead.  I suppose it's possible that the existing bulbs (if there are any in there, I forgot to check that) could be giving some feedback and causing something but I figured I would ask around first.  Any ideas?  Could it be a board issue?  I am going to run another coin mech there in a couple of weeks on my next service cycle.

Unplug the ballast. And replace coin mech. Check all other things mentioned by the big guys. 

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  • 2 months later...

The only thing left to do is unplug the ballast. I have checked the outlet with an outlet tester (several nearby outlets had no ground) and tried to find a loose ground wire. I replaced the coinmech and the bill acceptor. If the ballast is the culprit, I will be in disbelief lol.

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If you have that many non-grounded electric outlets near the machine I wonder if the outlet your machine is plugged into is not grounded either.  They may have just installed a three prong outlet on a two wire circuit.  You need to use your voltmeter to check if there is voltage between one spade and the ground and then the other spade and the ground.  There should only be voltage from one of the spades to ground and if you don't have voltage from either spade to the ground pin then your outlet is not grounded at all.

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If the other outlets have no ground then it is possible if they are all the same circuit they are ground through your machine and that could be bad news. It would mean yours is supplying the ground and could be causing it to run on low voltage. If that were to happen you will loose a compressor soon.

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If the other outlets have no ground then it is possible if they are all the same circuit they are ground through your machine and that could be bad news. It would mean yours is supplying the ground and could be causing it to run on low voltage. If that were to happen you will loose a compressor soon.

 

These outlets all run on a long strip that appears to look like a gigantic surge protector (I say that because there are maybe a dozen outlets on this "strip").  I don't think the snack machine next to it ever jackpots (Rowe 4900).  If their electric is the cause of the problem, I am going to have to tell them that we need to do something about that... if you know what I mean.

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When it comes to electricity anything can happen. I once had a vendo at a grocery store that wouldn't accept money. I made probably 3 calls there and each time they complained it wouldn't take money. It always had several empty columns and had a credit on it. The 4th time I decided to spend more time on it and still couldn't find anything wrong. While I was standing there scratching my head I heard the compressor come on and then a click. That click was the sound of the credit relay. What I found was every time the compressor came on it would set the credit relay. Changed out compressor and never went back. And never have I had that happen again.

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When it comes to electricity anything can happen. I once had a vendo at a grocery store that wouldn't accept money. I made probably 3 calls there and each time they complained it wouldn't take money. It always had several empty columns and had a credit on it. The 4th time I decided to spend more time on it and still couldn't find anything wrong. While I was standing there scratching my head I heard the compressor come on and then a click. That click was the sound of the credit relay. What I found was every time the compressor came on it would set the credit relay. Changed out compressor and never went back. And never have I had that happen again.

 

Don't you go and imply I should change out my refer deck now.  I don't want that.

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You are just asking for trouble with your machines plugged into one of those long strips. They are made for office machines like adding machines, typewriters and even computer components, but they aren't designed to handle the current draw of a compressor. I'm surprised that you haven't melted the spot the compressor is plugged into.

What can happen with it is that the current may be restricted when the compressor starts which causes a drop in line voltage that can cause a jackpot.

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You are just asking for trouble with your machines plugged into one of those long strips. They are made for office machines like adding machines, typewriters and even computer components, but they aren't designed to handle the current draw of a compressor. I'm surprised that you haven't melted the spot the compressor is plugged into.

What can happen with it is that the current may be restricted when the compressor starts which causes a drop in line voltage that can cause a jackpot.

 

This makes sense, and it also explains why the soda machine does it but not the snack machine.  Correct me if I am wrong, but an extension cord to a better circuit isn't much of a better idea is it?

 

And there ARE several other devices plugged into this strip, including a bunn and I think a water cooler.

 

If I can get away with it, would it be worth trying an extension cord to a different circuit to see if the machine stops jackpotting?  I am really putting my money on their electrical as being the problem.. and I may end up telling them that the machine has to be plugged in elsewhere to prevent the jackpotting.

 

The good thing is that they put the money in a can when it jackpots so I can get it back, but that doesn't change the fact that the machine won't take bills because it's out of change, or it needs to be reset, or any other list of problems that means I won't make money.

 

On a side note, they complained that the machine wouldn't always take bills... that seemed to be fixed by swapping coin mech and validator from another machine.

 

Here's a question: could this potential voltage issue cause damage to my coin mech and validator?  Or could it even damage the board?  I would assume that only high voltage can damage components.

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it could lock up with low volts

if all else fails, try paying an electrician to run conduit from better circuit to machine

 

I don't think I am going to be paying an electrician to install an upgrade to someone else's building.  Good idea though.

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some ops do this:

if you pay commish, tell the building owner that thier commission will go to pay for the upgrade until its paid off.

 

Another good idea, but no commission here!  This account grosses about $2,000/year.

 

The only other thing I wondered about was putting an MDB harness in there and putting MDB components in to see if that could prevent the jackpotting but I have no idea if that will stop anything.

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I don't think I am going to be paying an electrician to install an upgrade to someone else's building. Good idea though.

I've paid multiple times for an electrician to come out and run a conduit at apartments I service ... That is how I won 2 of the accounts ... Its a couple hundred dollar investment and shows the location u care
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Changing to MDB components will probably make it worse because 24v devices are more fragile. It's not the coin mech deciding to jackpot, it's the board sending a signal to the mech. You need to get this machine off that circuit ASAP. The coffee maker and water cooler are both high current draws and when all three are running together is when you'll have your lowest voltage. I'm surpised they have'nt had a burned outlet that this strip originates from.

Make sure that another outlet this is plugged into is actually a different circuit. You can use a short extension cord of less than 10 feet and with 12 or 14 gauge wire.

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This makes sense, and it also explains why the soda machine does it but not the snack machine.  Correct me if I am wrong, but an extension cord to a better circuit isn't much of a better idea is it?

 

And there ARE several other devices plugged into this strip, including a bunn and I think a water cooler.

 

If I can get away with it, would it be worth trying an extension cord to a different circuit to see if the machine stops jackpotting?  I am really putting my money on their electrical as being the problem.. and I may end up telling them that the machine has to be plugged in elsewhere to prevent the jackpotting.

 

The good thing is that they put the money in a can when it jackpots so I can get it back, but that doesn't change the fact that the machine won't take bills because it's out of change, or it needs to be reset, or any other list of problems that means I won't make money.

 

On a side note, they complained that the machine wouldn't always take bills... that seemed to be fixed by swapping coin mech and validator from another machine.

 

Here's a question: could this potential voltage issue cause damage to my coin mech and validator?  Or could it even damage the board?  I would assume that only high voltage can damage components.

The Bunn will use 15amps all by itself, water cooler 15amps, Snack machine 3 amps, cn pop 15amps upon startup of compressor. That power strip most likely is rated at 12 to 15amps.

 

I am surprised you haven't had more trouble. Until the low voltage problem is addressed you will never know if the vendor has a problem. A good 6' and under UL listed power strip will pass the fire codes in most places. That should give you 12' to 14' of cord to get to another outlet. But if you aren't on another circuit you are going to continue to have the same problem. Low voltage will make power hungry devices like compressors to overheat and burn up. They will cause them to even require more amps to try and run and upon startup. The sequence of startup on a compressor is Cold control starts compressor. The compressor starts on the start windings in the compressor once the compressor starts the motor has to get up to its run speed before it switches to the run windings of the compressor. During this time it is pulling twice the amps to run.  If it can't get up to speed because of low voltage then it will run until the compressor overheats due to running on the start windings. If your compressor is a older one with no start capacitor the low voltage circuit won't let the compressor even start and it will kick on and off until there is enough power to start up. During this time the compressor will overheat until it will no longer even a startup until compressor cools completely down. My rule of thumb is no more than 2 power hungry devices or compressors on the same circuit. And sometimes only 1 like a coldfood or frozen. .

 

Sorry for the long post. Thought it might help if you knew what was happening here or anywhere else you might have a problem or potential problem.

 

Good clean power is essential for a problem free vendor.     

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