Right machine sizes

[Rexlex]

My story: vending since January 2014.  Full line operator for Coke; Eight locations now, six are Coke only machines.  I work full-time and do this before/after/during work hours and on weekends.

 

In April I just picked up my first snack account with a car dealer and it's doing $500/month.  I put a Coke machine in there with a small USI 24-selection in shop area and put Rowe 40-selection with a DN 7 selection in the showroom. Showroom does about two-thirds of sales. About 70 employees on site.

 

I've done well enough that they want me to take over another dealership of theirs, likewise about 70 employees.  I bought the two USI combos from them that are currently there.  I told them I need 30-60 days to determine the need and then I might bring other machines in.  One combo is in showroom area and I'm pretty sure I'll keep it  (12 snack, 6 cans/bottles). The other machine is in a service hallway near their break room (12-selection snack, 6-selection cans only). 

 

What I'd like to do replace the hallway combo with another Rowe 40-select and a BevMax.  I've sold $200 through 14 days. I've talked with a few people and feel that if I could get more than the six selection sodas that I could justify the $2000 for the above machines (I bought a Rowe for $300 and can get the BevMax locally for $1700).  Or,  I could just put a 8-selection Coke machine in there for $0, that would be the other option (but I am limited to Coke only).

 

What do you guys/gals think?   Is there a formula out there for how much to spend for machines based on revenue/ number of employees?  

 

[AngryChris]

With sales like that, I recommend spending a little more on a better snack machine

[AZVendor]

There are no formulas for what you're asking about.  It's just by feel for the location and your experience.  Since you have another of the dealerships then you should know what to expect from both if they are basically the same type of dealer and setup - sales vs. service.  Only you will know what would be best to do.  You're talking about putting the larger snack in the service area which is opposite from your first location, so are you sure that's the best way to do it?  If it doesn't work the way you think it will, is it easy to swap the machines within the location?  If it is, then it doesn't matter what goes where to begin with.  I would stay away from any bottler machines until you have enough machines out on the street to support the minimum case requirements of the bottler before you deploy any bottler machines.

[Rexlex]

With sales like that, I recommend spending a little more on a better snack machine

OK.  What do you recommend? I was told Rowe, AP, Crane were good ones. I've been reading on here that Rowe is not.  What is expected payback on machines in time?

There are no formulas for what you're asking about.  It's just by feel for the location and your experience.  Since you have another of the dealerships then you should know what to expect from both if they are basically the same type of dealer and setup - sales vs. service.  Only you will know what would be best to do.  You're talking about putting the larger snack in the service area which is opposite from your first location, so are you sure that's the best way to do it?  If it doesn't work the way you think it will, is it easy to swap the machines within the location?  If it is, then it doesn't matter what goes where to begin with.  I would stay away from any bottler machines until you have enough machines out on the street to support the minimum case requirements of the bottler before you deploy any bottler machines.

I get the feeling that this site doesn't do as much as the previous but I also think that it could be untapped.  I had one guy tell me that he will make a "red bull" run fairly often so I think if I offer better selections than what they were doing in-house then I can grow that site.   I guess what I was asking is, how soon do you expect payback of your machines?  A year, two?  I will certainly spend more on my machines if it means more up-time and better sales.

[Rexlex]

There are no formulas for what you're asking about.  It's just by feel for the location and your experience.  Since you have another of the dealerships then you should know what to expect from both if they are basically the same type of dealer and setup - sales vs. service.  Only you will know what would be best to do.  You're talking about putting the larger snack in the service area which is opposite from your first location, so are you sure that's the best way to do it?  If it doesn't work the way you think it will, is it easy to swap the machines within the location?  If it is, then it doesn't matter what goes where to begin with.  I would stay away from any bottler machines until you have enough machines out on the street to support the minimum case requirements of the bottler before you deploy any bottler machines.

Forgot to answer about why I'm putting the better machines in the service hall:  at the first dealership, the service machine is hard to get to, it's an older building and you have to literally walk through guys working on cars.  On this second one it's just down a short hall off the showroom floor.  I'd rather just have one location there but will keep the combo in the showroom as it's easier for their customers to get to.

[moondog]

OK.  What do you recommend? I was told Rowe, AP, Crane were good ones. I've been reading on here that Rowe is not.  What is expected payback on machines in time?

I get the feeling that this site doesn't do as much as the previous but I also think that it could be untapped.  I had one guy tell me that he will make a "red bull" run fairly often so I think if I offer better selections than what they were doing in-house then I can grow that site.   I guess what I was asking is, how soon do you expect payback of your machines?  A year, two?  I will certainly spend more on my machines if it means more up-time and better sales.

Install the biggest machine that will fit in your location - less trips and more profit.  There's nothing wrong with Rowe's, they just don't have any parts support as they're out of business.  An AP113 would be a nice machine for this account.

[AngryChris]

It's tough to say what is a "better" machine if you aren't familiar with equipment.  A nicely refurbished AP-7600 will do a fine job but it can be a bit confusing to deal with if you are a beginner.  With that said, it's a relatively easy machine to work on.  Almost everything is very accessible and I wish I had more AP 6000 and 7000's in nice shape.

 

An AP 113 is a newer model than an AP 7000 and I do like the AP 113's but I greatly prefer it when they have dual spirals.

National 157's or newer are great machines, as our their GPL twins.

 

USI's can be good machines but, as a beginner, you might want to stay away from them.  I like them but sometimes even us seasoned veterans can get frustrated when parts are hard to get or costly.  It's not like ROWEs where parts can be impossible to get.  Some newer USI equipment just isn't available at every distributorship.

 

There are many good snack machines and the Rowe seems to be a good machine for its time but you are going to be pretty upset if something major happens to it and you can't get parts to fix it in a timely manner.  I would put this Rowe at an account that isn't tied into another account, and I would feel pretty comfortable having it (since I have had 2 for a little while now) but I would not risk losing TWO decent accounts because one or both of my snack machines cannot be fixed.  

 

You can replace virtually everything on an AP 7600.  In fact, you could buy an AP 7600 with a revision door that has all of the bells and whistles of a new machine for around $2,000 or maybe less.  It may sound like a lot to you but you would have a good machine with good technology with parts that should be easy and cheap to replace.  You could also take an AP 7600 and upgrade it yourself but the revision door is probably a better option if you don't mind the cost.  Many of us agree that revision doors look ugly and dull but it's way better technology.  It would be something like putting a brand new, state of the art engine into an older, reliable, solidly built truck.  Yes, it has a lot of older parts in it but also a lot of newer parts that won't give you a hassle.  You could even add a credit card reader to it later.

 

On the flip side, if you feel comfortable with the Rowe by itself, you can keep using it and make far more money in your pocket.  I am one to pour money into my equipment with the idea that I will have less problems and more revenue in the long run.  That's part of the reason why I am always broke.  If you guys only knew how much money I spend on upgrades relative to how much profit I generate, you would probably lash out at me.

[rmorris1953]

AP 113 with dual coils is the best as far as I am concerned. They look good and can be had for $800 to $1200. Match it with a Vendo 720, Vendo 721 or  D/N 501-E. 

[Rexlex]

Ok, talked with the on-site contact and we decided to go another direction.  The only place we can put full size machines is in the showroom area.  So, I need to find the right machines for there and I will fore go the secondary hall site.  I asked him if the general employee would have problems going to the showroom for snacks and he said "no."  It is away from the customer seating area if that matters.

 

So, I need to go back and measure that site but I believe I am going to go with the Rowe to start and then try a glass front soda like the BevMax or Vendo Vue.  If I can't keep up with the snack volume with the four-wide Rowe then I can always swap it out, it only cost me $350. This account is selling $350/month with two small combos (12-snack, 6 soda each).  I think with the right machines I might could get that up to $400 or more.  My prices are low since I took over for "in-house" operations and I didn't want them to get sticker shock.

 

I looked at the bevmax tonight and some AP and Crane machines. I can get a Vendo Vue for about $2500.  

 

So, what I gathered thus far is be prepared to replace the Rowe, for various reason.  How do you guys feel about the Bevmax and/or Vendo Vue for soda?

[AZVendor]

The 4 wide snack may easily be the right size for the 70 people depending on customer traffic. You will generally sell about half the snack units that you'll sell compared to soda units and you will find out after a couple of months of service if a 4 wide is sufficient.

I wouldn't use the Vendo Vue as they have always been problematic, especially the early ones which had easy-to- break delivery ports. If the one you're looking at is only a couple of years old then it should have all the updates that the early models had. Otherwise the Bevmax will be a better choice. Either get a 5591 or a Bev4 but nothing in between. The 5591 is the latest bottle drop version and the Bev 4 is the latest elevator version. Stay away from a Bev 2 and a Bev 3 unless the Bev3 has all of its updates (which essentially makes it a Bev 4).

[rmorris1953]

Vue's are expensive to repair. BevMax 4 is the best of all. D/N 5591 are good vendors but require cleaning of glides on a regular basis. Buying a used glassfront can be problematic for the unknowing.  Not very many people know how to work on them or know what to look for.

 

My only advice is do not buy any glassfront sight unseen. Inspect it personally before handing over the cash. 

[moondog]

Ok, talked with the on-site contact and we decided to go another direction.  The only place we can put full size machines is in the showroom area.  So, I need to find the right machines for there and I will fore go the secondary hall site.  I asked him if the general employee would have problems going to the showroom for snacks and he said "no."  It is away from the customer seating area if that matters.

 

So, I need to go back and measure that site but I believe I am going to go with the Rowe to start and then try a glass front soda like the BevMax or Vendo Vue.  If I can't keep up with the snack volume with the four-wide Rowe then I can always swap it out, it only cost me $350. This account is selling $350/month with two small combos (12-snack, 6 soda each).  I think with the right machines I might could get that up to $400 or more.  My prices are low since I took over for "in-house" operations and I didn't want them to get sticker shock.

 

I looked at the bevmax tonight and some AP and Crane machines. I can get a Vendo Vue for about $2500.  

 

So, what I gathered thus far is be prepared to replace the Rowe, for various reason.  How do you guys feel about the Bevmax and/or Vendo Vue for soda?

Given that the glassfront vendors are rather small in capacity, I think a 4 wide snack machine should be able to keep up and not cause excessive servicing.  Stick with the Bevmax or Royal RV500 if you're set on glassfronts - the Vue's require a lot of aftermarket upgrading unless you're buying a new one.

[AngryChris]

I'm kind of late to the party here but here is my general opinion on machine sizes in my area.

You almost never go wrong with a 4-wide snack. Sometimes it may be slightly too big on an account that sells alot of soda, but ususllybit is perfect. A 3-wide is good too but often don't make it in 2-week accounts.

If a 4-wide cannot make it through a week, that is a GREAT problem to have... if you can fit a 5-wide in there! A 4-wide should be able to bring in $150 before looking too empty, and that means you COULD service it 2x/week and still make big bucks. If that just isn't enough, I would be more than happy to replace it with a 5-wide.

As for soda machines, 8 selections is great. It usuall covers all of the main sellers and still keep a selection open for the boss that wants diet caffeine free ginger ale.

Unfortunately, 9-wides are pretty much standard for many royals and dixie narco machines that sell bottles. I have one account right now with a cs-12 and a 501e. The snack yields $10$ delivery while the 501e yields $80 from 2 cases of diet pepsi and a half case of Mt Dew. It's a very easy account to service but the 501e is way too big.

The thing about most soda machines though is that the customer doesn't have to know how low the slow sellers are. I DO have a few locations where I will leave some selections empty. No one complains.

Glassfronts are usually too big and customers like to call to say they are ALMOST out of mountain dew! Oh no! But you get there and they still have enough to last 3 days. Glassfronts increase sales though, so I recommend them for big accounts that need 2 or more soda machines to be serviced more than once each week.

[moondog]

I'm kind of late to the party here but here is my general opinion on machine sizes in my area.

You almost never go wrong with a 4-wide snack. Sometimes it may be slightly too big on an account that sells alot of soda, but ususllybit is perfect. A 3-wide is good too but often don't make it in 2-week accounts.

If a 4-wide cannot make it through a week, that is a GREAT problem to have... if you can fit a 5-wide in there! A 4-wide should be able to bring in $150 before looking too empty, and that means you COULD service it 2x/week and still make big bucks. If that just isn't enough, I would be more than happy to replace it with a 5-wide.

As for soda machines, 8 selections is great. It usuall covers all of the main sellers and still keep a selection open for the boss that wants diet caffeine free ginger ale.

Unfortunately, 9-wides are pretty much standard for many royals and dixie narco machines that sell bottles. I have one account right now with a cs-12 and a 501e. The snack yields $10$ delivery while the 501e yields $80 from 2 cases of diet pepsi and a half case of Mt Dew. It's a very easy account to service but the 501e is way too big.

The thing about most soda machines though is that the customer doesn't have to know how low the slow sellers are. I DO have a few locations where I will leave some selections empty. No one complains.

Glassfronts are usually too big and customers like to call to say they are ALMOST out of mountain dew! Oh no! But you get there and they still have enough to last 3 days. Glassfronts increase sales though, so I recommend them for big accounts that need 2 or more soda machines to be serviced more than once each week.

Yep,  I kind of like 4 wides as well.  I often find it hard to find enough products that really move in the 5 wides but don't seem to have that problem with the two 4 wides I have out.  You do need to gear your service cycle at about a hundred dollars though, otherwise the machine will be really empty - don't want that.

[FrCorey]

It's not the size. it's what you do with it.

[rmorris1953]

National 21 CE who remembers?

[AZVendor]

Ah, the old pull knob candy machine.  Definitely not the right size machine for the right location.  I did make a killing using one in one trailer park that had a ton of kids.  I put all kids candy in it and was mobbed every time I went to fill it.  I had a couple of these with 9 selections and they had the mirrors on the front of them.

[rmorris1953]

If memory serves me. LOL A Nation 21 CE was a tall narrow vendor. It had trays that swung out on a post with 2 slots with spirals. It had a 10 price tank for a coin mech. In the later years Lutec made a kit to upgrade with electronics and bill validator. Before they were done the Post office was buying them for stamps. Upgraded with stainless steel and more electronics. My boss was buying them up all over country and was turning out like 20 a week for the postal service. Switches were the most common problem when they got aged, 

 

Product was displayed in a window. 21 selections of chips, candy and cookies. 

 

I see a pull knob once in a while. or maybe a paddle wheel.

[CajunCandy]

Vue's are expensive to repair. BevMax 4 is the best of all. D/N 5591 are good vendors but require cleaning of glides on a regular basis. Buying a used glassfront can be problematic for the unknowing.  Not very many people know how to work on them or know what to look for.

 

My only advice is do not buy any glassfront sight unseen. Inspect it personally before handing over the cash. 

Thanks to this forum, I passed up a Vendo Vue 40 for super cheap.

 

The person who had was ready to junk it because of the problems with it and offered it to me for $$$$ and I kindly declined.

 

Thanks!

 

cajun

[moondog]

Thanks to this forum, I passed up a Vendo Vue 40 for super cheap.

 

The person who had was ready to junk it because of the problems with it and offered it to me for $$$$ and I kindly declined.

 

Thanks!

 

cajun

Sounds like the perfect machine for Donut - he likes tinkering with stuff he gets for a frugal price (cheap) 

[rmorris1953]

Thanks to this forum, I passed up a Vendo Vue 40 for super cheap.

 

The person who had was ready to junk it because of the problems with it and offered it to me for $$$$ and I kindly declined.

 

Thanks!

 

cajun

 

 

It isn't that they are not a good vendor. The problem I found was the cup has issues that you most likely will need tech support. You will need to be standing in front of Vendor when you do. Trying to get tech support on the phone or phone service is hard to do. So you spend a lot of precious time getting those 2 things to work for you. So unless you are getting paid by the hour its best not to put yourself in that position. No matter how good these glassfronts work they will breakdown and most parts are not cheap.... You have to have a really good account to make them pay. A good D/N 5591 will do the same thing. Not near as expensive to repair. Just keep the glides clean on all of them. I have a customer who every six months changes his out. Coke loaner so he calls coke and gets them free. 

 

When buying a D/N 5591 make sure it has the delivery port with the anti cheat delivery doors. Make sure it has the taller pushers, with heavy duty springs and the newer drop sensors that shine a red light on the reflector at the opposite side.  The last 5591's they built were the best ones.  better cooling deck. etc.

[Rexlex]

Here is the finished product.  Installed these on 8/16.  One problem a few days later in that the Bevmax wasn't accepting coins.  Turns out a cable was hanging down and blocking it only when the door was closed. I just zipped tied it up and it has worked fine ever since.

 

[AngryChris]

Here is the finished product.  Installed these on 8/16.  One problem a few days later in that the Bevmax wasn't accepting coins.  Turns out a cable was hanging down and blocking it only when the door was closed. I just zipped tied it up and it has worked fine ever since.

 

 

I had the same problem on my Bevmax 2/3.  The machine was stealing change.  I opened the machine up and pulled the coin mech and... when I did.. the change came falling out of the coin chute that goes to the top of the coin mech!  The MDB harness was hanging up underneath the coin chute causing a jam.  All I had to do was make sure that I move the MDB harness every time I take the coin mech out.  Seems like a simple design issue.  It only seemed to have happened (I thought it was random at first) because I had to take the coin mech out a day earlier because it really wasn't giving change back.  I had to hit the reset button on the coin mech and I accidentally blocked the coin chute with the harness when I put it back.

[rmorris1953]

Here is the finished product.  Installed these on 8/16.  One problem a few days later in that the Bevmax wasn't accepting coins.  Turns out a cable was hanging down and blocking it only when the door was closed. I just zipped tied it up and it has worked fine ever since.

 

Looks nice.

 

You don't have the theft guards on the delivery bins. You will loose all those energy drinks on the bottom shelf. They can reach through and help themselves. That will get expensive fast.     

[kiwi]

The bevmax looks like an ECC 2054 model