karwood Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Sorry for being so green at this, but I guess we all have to start somewhere. Let's say I get a few Shootin Hoops and want to locate them. Should I be discouraged in going into a business that already has a bunch of bulk machines? Do most businesses with bulk machines have an exclusive contract with their vendor, or is it common for a business to have machines owned by more than one vendor? If I just want to put one Shootin Hoops alongside another vendor's machines, is that usually going to be a problem? Any advice is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetstop Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 i wont usually add a machine with the same product because I hate when other vendors do it to me but when a loc allows a bulk machine they usually allow multiples. sometimes the loc can support more than one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 If it is a very busy location, go ahead and place it. Make sure owner/manager notices your exceptional service and after 4-6 months try getting the place all to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanihotdog Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 If they don't have a "shooting hoops" try to put one in! You have nothing to lose from the other guy retaliating because you don't have any locations yet! Once you get the hang of this business you will learn the importance of dominating all available space even if it costs a little extra.. For instance, if a location looks marginal, but has room for a 5way rack and one to two more feet of space.. Put in a seven way rack to fill it.. If its more than two feet, buy a used sticker machine(furniture) and put it in. I say shame on the vendor for leaving a hole. As a common courtesy, you should not replicate the vendors product... Don't put a rack next to a rack... Or a sticker next to a sticker... Just convince the owner to kick out the other vendor. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 As a common courtesy, you should not replicate the vendors product... Don't put a rack next to a rack... Or a sticker next to a sticker... Just convince the owner to kick out the other vendor. Hope that helps. Yes. Common courtesy dictates you don't replicate another vendors product...but it's alright to get him kicked out of the location altogether! That's funny as heck... Should I be discouraged in going into a business that already has a bunch of bulk machines? Do most businesses with bulk machines have an exclusive contract with their vendor, or is it common for a business to have machines owned by more than one vendor? If I just want to put one Shootin Hoops alongside another vendor's machines, is that usually going to be a problem? Any advice is welcome. You should actually be ENCOURAGED that a bunch of bulk machines are on location already? That may mean that the location is one worth having. At very least it usually means the owner/manager is open to bulk vending in his/her establishment. Either way, it is a good opportunity to get your equipment in there. Your next question about contracts: it is very rare that locations have exclusive contracts unless you are referring to a major location like: Family Fun Centers, Malls, Movie Theaters, etc. Mom and pop locations are usually a free-for-all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanihotdog Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Its funny, but its true Sherlock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Its funny, but its true Sherlock! Not necessarily true. If, as you say, you want to get the other vendor kicked out, then replicating product is a great way to do it. You can: Offer the same product but in a better/newer/cleaner machine. Replicate product but at a lower price. Give the owner higher commission while giving customers the same product. Or give more quantity of the same product at the same price as the other vendor (gum or candy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanihotdog Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 one of the only times that makes sense to duplicate another vendors offering, is it you set up an agreement with the owner whereby you have a set amount of time to compete head to head winner take all. Duplicating another vendor's product offering whereby you offer more product for less money or lower pricing will not work in the long run because the other vendor has the same ability.(unless the other vendor is dumb) The only way this strategy makes sense is if you have a huge advantage in economies of scale.. most companies in bulk do not. What I have learned from years in this business is that most vendors are mom and pop and they are very emotionally connected to their business, and at times can become irrational, and do irrational things.! if you want to be successful in this business you are going to have to learn how to differentiate yourself and your product from competitors. The last thing you want to be is a "me too" type company. That offers "me too" type products... if that is the case you're only going to be able to compete on price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 You are correct hanihotdog, very well put!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havending Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 one of the only times that makes sense to duplicate another vendors offering, is it you set up an agreement with the owner whereby you have a set amount of time to compete head to head winner take all. Duplicating another vendor's product offering whereby you offer more product for less money or lower pricing will not work in the long run because the other vendor has the same ability.(unless the other vendor is dumb) The only way this strategy makes sense is if you have a huge advantage in economies of scale.. most companies in bulk do not. What I have learned from years in this business is that most vendors are mom and pop and they are very emotionally connected to their business, and at times can become irrational, and do irrational things.! if you want to be successful in this business you are going to have to learn how to differentiate yourself and your product from competitors. The last thing you want to be is a "me too" type company. That offers "me too" type products... if that is the case you're only going to be able to compete on price. Not always we have been dropping 4 way one inch on SV locations for a few months now. All one inch toys at a quarter no gum. They do so well the we had to buy ex caps for small panel heads. I would never go complete quarter one inch but this set up fits a need we have right now. Product cost is still good at 23%. SV would never change racks to offer the quarter product just because I am. Vending does not have a play book what works for one may not for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 one of the only times that makes sense to duplicate another vendors offering, is it you set up an agreement with the owner whereby you have a set amount of time to compete head to head winner take all. Duplicating another vendor's product offering whereby you offer more product for less money or lower pricing will not work in the long run because the other vendor has the same ability.(unless the other vendor is dumb) The only way this strategy makes sense is if you have a huge advantage in economies of scale.. most companies in bulk do not. What I have learned from years in this business is that most vendors are mom and pop and they are very emotionally connected to their business, and at times can become irrational, and do irrational things.! if you want to be successful in this business you are going to have to learn how to differentiate yourself and your product from competitors. The last thing you want to be is a "me too" type company. That offers "me too" type products... if that is the case you're only going to be able to compete on price. I don't disagree with you. The beauty of vending is that there is more than one way to do it successfully. And I totally agree that one should differentiate themselves from other vendors. But there are many ways you can differentiate yourself. Products is only one of them. The type of equipment you use, the service you provide, and the price-points/commission rates all play a role in differentiating yourself too. I do not discourage new vendors from using duplicate products because I've gotten some GREAT locations replicating products the established vendors were using...when I do it better than the existing vendor. I have put clean quality machines right next to beat-up dirty cheapo machines selling the same product many times with awesome results. And I've never had the location's pre-approval to compete head-to-head product-wise. Half the owners don't even know what product is being vended most of the time in the GREAT locations because they're too busy running a busy business. Yes. There are locations that will be loyal to crappy vendors and their poorly serviced equipment out of a sense of obligation to the existing vendor. I've lost my share of locations that way too. But, in my experience, those locations have been the exception, not the rule. Bottom line: If you can do what the other vendor is doing, but do it better, don't worry about duplicate products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Quite often shoddy looking equipment is ran by shoddy looking vendors who run shoddy product. A lot of these type of vendors don't put in displays either. Most of the time it is easy to run this type of vendor out of a location from just your personal neat, clean appearance alone as well as your nicely displayed equipment. Although if still having trouble getting rid of the trash whip out the cash, money talks BS walks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 one of the only times that makes sense to duplicate another vendors offering, is it you set up an agreement with the owner whereby you have a set amount of time to compete head to head winner take all. Duplicating another vendor's product offering whereby you offer more product for less money or lower pricing will not work in the long run because the other vendor has the same ability.(unless the other vendor is dumb) The only way this strategy makes sense is if you have a huge advantage in economies of scale.. most companies in bulk do not. What I have learned from years in this business is that most vendors are mom and pop and they are very emotionally connected to their business, and at times can become irrational, and do irrational things.! if you want to be successful in this business you are going to have to learn how to differentiate yourself and your product from competitors. The last thing you want to be is a "me too" type company. That offers "me too" type products... if that is the case you're only going to be able to compete on price. Now THAT'S the thread I would like to read. What things - specifically - do you do to differentiate your bulk business from the "me too" bulk businesses. That would be a great thread, but good luck getting people to divulge that in a public arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanihotdog Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Rick, I tried that thread a couple weeks back.. called how to differentiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Now THAT'S the thread I would like to read. What things - specifically - do you do to differentiate your bulk business from the "me too" bulk businesses. That would be a great thread, but good luck getting people to divulge that in a public arena. Clean,neat and do not cheat!!! Also helps to have a charming personality, such as myself! Although if that isn't enough use those ------> ($$$$$$) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherlock Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Now THAT'S the thread I would like to read. What things - specifically - do you do to differentiate your bulk business from the "me too" bulk businesses. That would be a great thread, but good luck getting people to divulge that in a public arena. I don't know that these are the specifics you wanted. But here's a general idea that helped me differentiate my vending business from many others in my area. Don't rely on products to differentiate yourself unless you are importing your own toys/flat. Because, unless you are importing your own product, your competition can buy the same stuff you can buy. If they see something selling well for you, chances are they'll throw that stuff into their globe next opportunity. And then....so much for being different. You'll have to switch to another product which may not sell as well or become the "me too" vendor you tried to avoid in the first place. Instead this is how you can differentiate your vending biz: Keep your machines regularly serviced so they don't run empty. Keep your displays neat and tidy. Keep your equipment clean and functional - INCLUDING the stands. And be personable to business workers, owners/managers, and customers as if you are truly happy to be servicing those machines while you are in there EVERY visit. Sad to say, these simple 4 steps are not typical behavior for most bulk vendors I've come across on my route. You would think what I described above is "common sense" but FAR FROM IT. Differentiating yourself by building good reliable work habits will go a LONG way in helping you find long-term success in bulk vending. Much more so than trying to differentiate yourself with product or fancy equipment. It's much easier for a lazy disorganized unprofessional slob to copy the product you sell or the equipment you use. It's much harder for that slob to copy your strong professional work ethic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanihotdog Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 When I posted the comment earlier today I was driving and text talking into the phone. a few things that I would like to clarify: 1. I made an assumption that Karwood is new to vending and wants long term advice that will allow him to co-exist with other vendors. (a must for long term survival because there will always be other vendors). While there is no "play book" for the vending industry, and there may be "more than one way to do it successfully", The laws of competition cannot be denied. Maybe you have heard of Porters five forces? google porters five forces strategic management insight for a good description. In the short run, duplicating product offerings will work, but in the medium to long term, they will not. If someone continues with this strategy, and has continued success, the competition will take note and respond in some way. Either they will slap down advanced commissions, slotting fees, or higher commissions, or "me too" strategy and copy your success in their other accounts.. The "barriers to entry" (for mom and pop street accounts) are too low for a large company like service vending to have long term success with a "mee too" business. What does an established company that competes in a highly competitive industry do? Raise the barriers to entry by offering slotting fee's and hefty advanced commissions in return for multi year contracts. To the people reading this post... What would you do if someone did that to several of your accounts? A common theme here is that there is no way to stand out in the bulk vending business.. You can stand out by not doing a bad job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karwood Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Just to clarify, I'm not looking to jump head first into bulk vending, so I'm not looking to "take over" a location or get someone kicked out. To begin with, I want to try a several things to see what works best for me. I thought If I can get these 15 Shootin' Hoops this guy is willing to sell me that I could start with those and maybe also place some charity mint boxes as well. It seems like every location I observe with bulk machines (and it seems like EVERY place I go that can support them has them) will have a gumball machine. Since not every location I see has bouncy balls (and most of you are saying not to vend gumballs where someone else has a gumball machine placed), should I just plan on converting most of my machines to 50 cent mechs and vending bouncy balls? I don't want to start out making enemies and I have yet to see a good location that doesn't already have someone vending gumballs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I would vend gumballs if they let me place a machine, later when you get the cash flow then buy some mechs and convert some over to .50 for toys and bb. Don't worry about upsetting competition. The old saying goes competition is a good thing. Now if location says we don't need another gumball machine then convert it to a bb machine or toy vendor. (Don't forget to purchase adgitator for bb and toys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karwood Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 I would vend gumballs if they let me place a machine, later when you get the cash flow then buy some mechs and convert some over to .50 for toys and bb. Don't worry about upsetting competition. The old saying goes competition is a good thing. Now if location says we don't need another gumball machine then convert it to a bb machine or toy vendor. (Don't forget to purchase adgitator for bb and toys) Thanks BB, I really appreciate the advice from ALL of you veterans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BouncyBalls Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Anytime, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I would like to see you succeed! Now get out of here and go buy those Hoops before someone else does!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Anytime, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I would like to see you succeed! Now get out of here and go buy those Hoops before someone else does!!!! Ditto! Get all the hoops you can - they will give a fast ROI when placed. Don't worry about duplicating product at first. Just get the machine located so that you generate revenue ASAP and most importantly establish your "marker" in that location. But keep in mind that with a hoops you are bringing in SOMETHING DIFFERENT - A GAME, rather than another run-of-the-mill gumball machine. The kids will usually flock more to a game than a traditional bulk machine. But we warned that the gumball vendors won't like it and may hit you (and try to scare you) with their secret weapon - the 2-for-a-quarter gumball wheel! Don't worry about that. The hoops usually hold up very well to the 2-for-1 gumball machines and in most cases no action is necessary. But if hoop sales do drop significantly, Beaver sells a 2-for-1 wheel (sometimes available on eBay used) if you need to be competitive and match the other machine. So go get 'em and get 'em placed! And place 'em right next to those boring single head gumball machines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney69 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 If they don't have a "shooting hoops" try to put one in! You have nothing to lose from the other guy retaliating because you don't have any locations yet! Once you get the hang of this business you will learn the importance of dominating all available space even if it costs a little extra.. For instance, if a location looks marginal, but has room for a 5way rack and one to two more feet of space.. Put in a seven way rack to fill it.. If its more than two feet, buy a used sticker machine(furniture) and put it in. I say shame on the vendor for leaving a hole. As a common courtesy, you should not replicate the vendors product... Don't put a rack next to a rack... Or a sticker next to a sticker... Just convince the owner to kick out the other vendor. Hope that helps. I must be in a different area than most? In my area, we don't do anything nice and get along with each other where vendors are concerned! LOL! It's more cut throat than any business I've ever seen! I could put in a rack and have one right next to it next month! I offer good service, so it usually only happens with new locations, but I will put a flat next to a flat and put in better product at the same price or even cheaper till they leave or the owner kicks them out. I will put better toys, better service This is a competitive business and people don't know what manners are, it's business. Ford or Chevy will build what sells even if it looks just like the competitor. Is vending different? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havending Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I must be in a different area than most? In my area, we don't do anything nice and get along with each other where vendors are concerned! LOL! It's more cut throat than any business I've ever seen! I could put in a rack and have one right next to it next month! I offer good service, so it usually only happens with new locations, but I will put a flat next to a flat and put in better product at the same price or even cheaper till they leave or the owner kicks them out. I will put better toys, better service This is a competitive business and people don't know what manners are, it's business. Ford or Chevy will build what sells even if it looks just like the competitor. Is vending different? I don't think so. Pack out new locations with as many heads as you can get away with. To keep others out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney69 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Pack out new locations with as many heads as you can get away with. To keep others out. Attempting to currently. Been trying to buy more heads to do so! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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