Bender

Looks like a Routemaster to me. Compare to the photos at the company website: http://www.routemastervending.net/ I don't have any of these personally, but there are a couple in a nearby restaurant working for for them for the last 10 years.

How much did you pay for these machines at that time?

Len Tillem, the KGOAM810 radio lawyer, http://www.kgoam810.com/sectional.asp?id=25969 is a sassy New Yorker and I was sort of replicating his attitude in the previous essay. He often gets personal injury calls, and usually he tells the callers that because there was no permanent injury, and the because of the cost of hiring lawyers and expert medical witnesses, getting doctor's reports, court filings, discovery, collecting evidence, hiring expert testimony, and taking it to trial, experienced personal injury lawyers are not going to take the case. I believe even a rookie lawyer knows the difference between a cash cow and a dud, and lawyers don't take dud cases. Now, if he hears a caller who has real damages, then he will refer them to his colleague, a personal injury lawyer, who he says never takes a case unless there is a good chance of $100,000 or more in recovery. I'm not saying it can't be done, what I'm saying is that lawyers don't mess around with small cases. They will if you pay them, so pony up the $5,000 retainer and he'll start billing you $500 per hour to work on your case. I guarantee you'll get a $20,000 lawyer bill before you get a $20,000 judgment. Here's a Ken Spillem type vending scenario that I made up as an example, and the sort of answer Ken might respond with: my toddler son got a bruise when the double head gumball machine tipped over while I was buying a soda at the convenience store. Here's what Ken might say: KEN: What happened to your son? BENDER: He was looking at the gumball machine and it tipped over and hit him on the chin as it fell. KEN: Was it one of those big things you see at the KMart? BENDER: No, it was a double gumball machine on a little pipe stand. KEN: How's your son now? BENDER: Well, we went to the hospital, there were no broken bones, just a big bruise on his cheek, a little scrape, but no blood and no scarring. KEN: So, he was looking at it, and it suddenly fell over on top of him? BENDER: Well, actually, it was a little taller than him, so he was grabbing onto the machine to see the candy, and he kind of pulled it down. KEN: Who owns the machine? The store owner? BENDER: No, he said it belonged to a charity guy who comes once a month to change the machine and fill the gumballs. I called the guy's number and he didn't call me back yet. KEN: I'm glad your son is okay, but the thing is, you don't have much of a case. You have no damages, your son is okay. Lawyers like to see things like broken bones, you know, permanent injuries, brain damage, that sort of thing. And they want to sue somebody with deep pockets, the gumball guy's not a rich guy, does he have any property? BENDER: I don't know. KEN: So, you don't know much about the gumball machine guy. Well, my advice is let it go. Your son wasn't seriously hurt, there's no permanent damage, and no lawyer is going to take this case. You could go to small claims court, but any judgment you win would be recovered by your health insurance for the emergency room visit. Also, you would have to prove negligence, and the gumball guy is going to say your kid was hanging on the machine! Let it go, he's okay. I made that story up, I didn't call and it didn't happen. But that's sort of how the story would go if it did happen. Now a more serious case might justify hiring a lawyer, with the same caveats: medical examinations, expert medical testimony, court filings, investigations, etc. That all adds up, lawyers bill for every minute of it, and a lawyer knows if it's going to be profitable for him from the start. Lawyers don't take cases to make you feel better. They take cases if they smell money, that is, if there's a profit in it for them. So unless it's a doozie of a case, a lawyer's not going to take it. I understand and believe your buddy's story. That's a small claims case, anybody can, and I have, filed a small claim suit without a lawyer. And people should do it when necessary, it's a shining example of justice for the people. Winning a judgment in small claims, however, is one thing, collecting on the debt is another, and much harder to do. However, I find it hard to believe that the police would be able to arrest a person for failure to pay a debt, unless a judge issued an arrest warrant for contempt of court. What was the threatened arrest charge? We don't have debtor's prison in America. Police officers sometimes make such idle threats to motivate citizens to obey their orders, even if the threat is entirely untrue. Actually, in sharing my opinion, in the previous essay and this one, I am not proposing claiming "judgment proof" as a method of doing business, or protecting yourself from liability. Indeed, I agree with your philosophy and business practice, that liability insurance, and one thing not mentioned, reasonable care in the course of operating your business, are the prudent actions to protect yourself from liability.

It wouldn't cost the candy and snack companies much to comply with this law, as all the law requires is the calorie count, in case the Nutrition Facts are not in view. All they have to do is print a bubble on the front of the packaging that shows the number of calories that is in the package. Not much space to do that, and problem solved!

For your information, see my post in topic "LLC info", with audio and transcript, where a certified financial planner advises that an LLC will not protect your personal assets in any way if you are performing your own labor on your vending machine route: http://VENDiscuss.com/forum/index.php?topic=5975.msg76842#msg76842

See my post in topic "LLC info", with audio and transcript, where a certified financial planner advises that an LLC will not protect your personal assets in any way if you are performing your own labor on your vending machine route: http://vendiscuss.com/forum/index.php?topic=5975.msg76842#msg76842 For small vendors, without significant assets, consider that you are "judgment proof". It means that you are not going to get sued if you have no net worth, because lawyers don't take personal injury cases if there's no money to be had. So if you've got a small vending route, and you don't own a house or other high-value assets, there's no lawyer in the world who's going to take a personal injury case against you, because you don't have anything to take. The first thing a PI lawyer wants to know is how much money you have that they can take from you. I'm not a lawyer, this is my own opinion, based on what I hear my local radio lawyer say all the time. If you have a small vending route and little to no net worth, nobody's going to sue you for your $100,000 bulk vending route, I'd put money on that! Why do I say that? Because personal injury lawyers don't take small cases, it's not worth it for them. They only take contingency cases if there is a chance of significant recovery. His 30% would be $30,000 for your $100,000 route. He doesn't want to liquidate a bunch of vending machines. His costs would likely be more than $10,000, so it's not worth his time. Few plaintiffs are going to put up a $10,000 retainer to hire a PI lawyer who won't take it on contingency.. He doesn't want your vending machines! And his client doesn't want your vending machines either. Even if there were a significant injury, up to and including death, if you have little to no assets, any PI lawyer worth his salt is not going to take the case because there's no money to be had. So whether or not you have an LLC, if you have no insurance and few assets, you're pretty much judgment proof. If you own a house and a vending route, you're at risk because they could pierce your LLC and go for your real estate. Now if you have a million dollar insurance policy, the lawyers will smell that money, and that's more likely to draw personal injury lawsuit. If you have insurance and no LLC, your insurance company will use their lawyers to represent you in a personal injury lawsuit. If you have an LLC and no insurance, you will have to pay out of pocket for your own attorneys. If you have no LLC and no insurance, and no net worth, you're not going to get sued because it's not worth any lawyer's time and money, you have nothing they can get. Out of all the options, however, it does seem that the general liability commercial insurance policy is the most prudent avenue to protect your business and personal assets from a lawsuit.

Based on Certified Financial planner Ray Lucia's advice, an LLC will not protect you in any way if you are performing your own work servicing your vending machine route. Here is a transcript of the conversation Ray Lucia, Certified Financial Planner, had with a caller on his June 16 radio show, regarding LLCs. I have heard him repeat this mantra many times regarding individuals operating LLCs. I have attached an mp3 audio clip of the conversation in question. http://archives.warpradio.com/btr/RayLucia/061612.mp3 The caller re: LLCs is at the 22:00 mark. RAY: Sunshine...in Las Vegas Nevada, how you doin' Sunshine? SUNSHINE: Hi Ray! RAY: What's up? SUNSHINE: I'm a business student, and my friends are coming to me for advice. My friend's a photographer and wants to do it full time, and is asking me how she should form a business, like should it be a sole proprietorship or llc. I directed her to you, but the language kind of overwhelms her, so... RAY: Let's see, you can be the translator, and I'll explain it to you. But you've got to answer a couple of questions. This photographer friend of yours, is she operating solo, or does she have staff? SUNSHINE: Solo, it's a hobby that she now wants to do full time, so she's just trying to protect herself and do it the right way. RAY: Yeah, well, here's the problem: any kind of an entity is not going to protect her from her. In other words, if she comes to take a picture of somebody, and the flash blinds someone...I don't know, I'm making stuff up here because I know nothing about photography...and she gets sued for the flash causing some damage to someone's retina...no corporation, LLC, or anything, is going to protect from that type of a lawsuit, because she is the one that caused the problem. Now, if she hires you to drive clients to certain sites, to the beach or whatever, for some photo shoot, and on the way, you get in a wreck, well then, she could be potentially protected with a corporation, so the only reason for her to consider any kind of an entity would be tax reasons, not liability. So now, that brings me to the next question, you said that this was a hobby. How much money is she expected to make this year? SUNSHINE: Last year, she probably made a couple thousand dollars...maybe 5 to 10 thousand. RAY: If it's going to be 5, 10, 15 thousand, the answer is she should not do any kind of an entity at this point. Because there's no liability protection, and she's not making enough money to where it would be worth while to spend the money to do a corporation, say a subchapter S corp, and take dividends and all that stuff, it's just not going to be profitable for her. So the best advice you could give her is to do nothing at this point. Wait till she starts making more money, or starts hiring employees. ---------- Here's another transcript of a followup email question on June 18, 2010, and verbal exchange between Producer John Dean and Certified Financial Planner Ray Lucia regarding landlords and LLCs: http://archives.warpradio.com/btr/RayLucia/061814.mp3 The caller re: LLCs is at the 22:45 mark. JOHN: Edward in Pittsburgh, regarding yesterday's advice to the photographer with an LLC, this was a couple of days ago, actually. You advised the photographer not to bother with an LLC, because she herself is doing all the work, which in turn puts her personal wealth at risk. Is this the same for a landlord? Because you do advise landlords to form an LLC. Could you explain that? RAY: Yeah, I can, that's a very good point! Well, it is the same for a landlord with respect to any of the repairs the landlord might be taking on themselves. So if it's the landlord's repair that causes the lawsuit, then yes, it's exactly the same. The landlord's personal assets would in fact be at risk. But if it's out of the landlord's control, in other words, you put the property in an LLC, and somebody slips on a banana peel, as long as the landlord didn't put the banana on the sidewalk, then yes, their personal assets would in fact be protected, so that's the difference, I would definitely put real estate property in an LLC, but a self-employed business, John Dean, radio producer: LLC. If I get electrocuted because something from the microphone zaps my mouth, and I could no longer talk, which would make a lot of people happy, including my wife, I could sue you and break through or penetrate that LLC. JOHN: Right, that's a limited liability company by the way, for people wondering. It does not protect you from yourself. And that's an important point, because I think a lot of these are pitched to people saying that you can get away with anything. RAY: Well there's also some other pieces to it. With respect to the landlord situation. You have to make sure that the LLC has a contract, the lease agreement, for example, should not be in the name of the individual, it should be in the name of the LLC.

I recommend talking to the guys at the Lucky Ju Ju Pinball Museum in Alameda, CA. They recondition antique pinball machines and operate them in the fully operational Pacific Pinball Museum. $15 admission for all-you-can-play pinball! I've visited the museum, and all the machines are in mint condition! I'm guessing if anybody can do what you are thinking about, these are your guys! http://www.ujuju.com/

Looking good, mainor! Looks like you got it for 10 cents on the dollar, I'd buy those kind of deals every day of the week! Perhaps you would be willing to share a photo of your catch when you get it rolling.

I'm interested in more referrals for insurance agents or brokers for the state of California. Regarding this IFB, it makes for a high startup cost. They want liability insurance, commercial auto insurance, and worker's compensation insurance. I didn't read the IFB, but it seems like you'll have to pay the premiums to get all those just to submit the bid. Let's say it's $1,000 for the first year's premiums. Add to that the cost of equipment, delivery and inventory. Looks like an opportunity for an existing full-line vending company who already has these in place. Department of Rehabilitation? Would this be prison bending machines for inmates, or for employees?

You would think that an experienced company would have their supply chains worked out by now, anticipating foreign factory holidays and adjust their inventory accordingly. How many years have these companies been in business? It's not like it's the first holiday season they've encountered! They must have a pretty good record of client orders over the years to be able to predict demand pretty accurately. I'm no MBA, but this doesn't seem like a way to do business, if you've got orders waiting to be fulfilled, but you can't deliver because you can't manage your supply chain properly.

You're on the right track, dperry! I have looked into the same things you mentioned, even going so far as touring a local foundry and machine shop, with the intent of fabricating my own parts. My route is small, so at this point I'm earning more selling labels than collecting quarters. But let me tell you, fabricating labels by the hundreds is so BORING, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

Hilarious, Profits, hilarious! To answer your question, no, we don't REALLY need the nutritional information on there. It's not required by the law. I designed these labels for my own bulk vending route while the Obamacare bill was still in the works. The actual law only requires "a clear and conspicuous statement disclosing the number of calories in the article", if the Nutrition Facts label is not available for examination. When I designed my labels, I decided to one-up the law and include the actual Nutrition Facts, which is an internationally accepted standardized format for disclosing nutrition information on food products. I have devised a method for accurately calculating the Nutrition Facts for any weight of bulk vended product. Currently I offer them in three standard vending weights: 1/2 ounce, 3/4 ounce, and one ounce. I can accurately calculate the Nutrition Facts for any weight of vended product, and offer these custom labels in <a href="http://shop.ebay.com/buyingtoselling/m.html">My eBay listings</a> and at <a href="http://www.bestbulkvending.net">my Vendio web store.</a> Whether or not you are willing to comply with the law is up to you. I can't imagine that there will be any significant enforcement of this law in the bulk vending industry. I am inclined to believe that this is aimed at fast food and other restaurants, but as Angus pointed out in another topic, this law does not exempt bulk vending operators. Congress has directed in the law that the FDA shall establish the details of these labeling policies within 12 months of the law's enactment. <a href="http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3590enr.txt.pdf">For those who are interested, the full text of HR3590, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is here:</a> The section related to restaurants and vending machines is on page 457. As I mentioned before, the Obamacare 1099 reporting clause will have a much bigger impact on small business bulk vendors than anything else in the new law.

Not only that, it's a Coca Cola branded machine. I'm guessing who's going to get sued if this falls on somebody.