Saeco SG 200 operators

[Greatdane]

Hi there,

I am new to vending and have just found this very informative forum and already have received a wealth of information. I live in northern Minnesota on the Iron range near Canadian border. This intro is a little long but I hope I can get feedback.

I recently purchased 2 slightly used (less than 600 cups each on counter) and 7 brand new Saeco Supremo SG 200e commercial coffee vending machines still in factory box's with all accessories. Nine machines total including shipping from Florida to northern Minnesota, for a total investment of $14,000. All nine coffee vendors come with DBA's and coinco changers. Seven machines are still in the boxes and seven sets of bill validators and coinco changers are also in boxes. All these machines have a 2010 manufacture date.

I had seen these machines demoed by Canmax at a franchise expo in Minneapolis, Minnesota. After seeing them at the show, I was sold. I was invited by Canmax to come to a informational meeting to be held three days later. I drove 250 miles to get back home and planned on driving back for their potential operator meeting. It snowed 18 inches the night before the meeting and it was impossible for me to attend. I called and emailed them to let the exhibitor’s know that I wanted in and where do I send the money. I was told I was too late and they only accept people after lengthy face to face meetings and interviews. I was then told that they would be expanding in Cincinnati, Ohio whithin two years and I could attend that one. I really was sold on these machines and didn't want to wait that long. Just for the heck of it, I searched EBay for Saeco Supremo SG 200. I got a hit immediately. A person had just listed the vendors and the listing was only 18 minutes old before I stumbled upon the auction. I quickly and blindly placed my $14,000 offer bid and it was immediately accepted. I paid for the auction within 5 minutes through pay-pal.

When arranging shipping half way across the country, I was told that his mom had gone through Canmax in Canada. She spent $12,000 for their two machine entry program with territory in Florida. She started with 2 machines and started making money. She then bought 7 more machines for $6,500 for each with DBA's and coinco changer options for a total of $45,500. The invoices included with the marketing material totaled about $56,000. His mother suddenly died of cancer and her son works for the government and can't have a side business, so he sold everything to me on EBay.

I find I got more than I hoped for! A big bonus with the machines included ten cases (6-2lbs each case) of cappuccino topping (powdered milk), hot chocolate and French Vanilla. There was also a duffle bag that says "Barista Supremo System" full of about 30 lbs. of premium various coffee beans in foil vacuum factory sealed bags.

The problem I am having is that Canmax will have nothing to do with me because I didn't go through their authorized exclusive "Authorized Operator" program. I tried getting access to their forums BARISTA OPERATOR FORUM and was denied access even know I bought her company name and coffee machines that they sold to her. I then looked for other forums and information and found Early 1st Generation Barista Equipment Owner and Operator Blog: Barista Supreme Program Comments. After 2007 a guy by the name of Grant Rodgers, Manager of Canmax, Canada closed the forum and made it a "Authorized Operator" only forum where Canmax will not give me access. He posts throughout the forums that it was done to prevent mischief. I really don't believe that and feel it was closed to make it harder for people like me to get tech support and fellow vendor operator advice and to prevent people like me from starting a new territory where no machines like these are located without their blessing and expensive "Authorized Operator" membership franchise like program. Anyone not familiar with the Saeco SG200 can go here to see the machine and their info (very vague) http://www.baristaminicafe.com/

Canmax's old 2007 "Authorized Operator" forum seemed so useful pertaining to what I read in early posts before it was closed. I kept hitting dead end's dealing with Canmax and each person I talked to (voice mail) including Grant Rodgers (who I was told is a great guy and returns calls and emails right away) either said I must be an "Authorized Operator" or they did not return my calls and emails.

I feel so luckily that I found this wealth of information in this awesome forum. I am hopeful there are others like myself with these machines to learn from and also give advice once I begin to get to know people and read others questions in the forums. I am a HVAC/r technician and if their are any refrigeration questions, I'm your guy.

My first question I have is: Are there any other people like me that work with Saeco SG 200 Coffee machines. I know I will need some advice, assistance and technical suport in the future and hoping there are people like me in these cool forums. I also placed this question and intro with subject line to catch other operator’s attention in the proper forum.

Thank you for your time and patience reading this long intro and question.

Eddie

[mission vending]

Let me begin with that I'm glad you found this place. The price that you paid for the equipment, while a little high, at least was not the ridiculous prices the company charges new. I think that getting parts for these machines in the future will be an ongoing struggle due to the "exclusive" nature of the distributor and operator relationship.

This type of restrictive relationship is very common in the biz-op world. They lock you in so that you can't go anywhere else and then, IMO, WAY overcharge for the little "value added" services they provide like "training and support". Its not necessarily illegal to make an obscene profit off of someone, but,(again IMO) it certainly qualifies as morally wrong and reprehensible.

If you want to go this route with your business then I would suggest you take a hard look at another brand of equipment for better prices, parts and technical support. One brand that looks very similar to this is the Colibri. I've had a couple of them in the past and they were really good machines for me. There are other brands out there as well that probably would meet your needs as well.

If you have any questions let me know.

[Mooman333]

I was thinking the same thing as mission... you better get rid of this equipment while you can and buy something common and proven in the industry. I hate to say it but it basically sounds like you have been scammed. Not as horribably as the origianal investor... you have to sell a lot of cups of coffee to get a return on a $56,000 investment! Your return on investment on new equipment should be a year, year and a half tops. I buy used equipment and try to aim for a ROI of under 6-8 months, depending on the price.

[Greatdane]

I paid $14,000 total for 9 new machines (2 were slightly used with cup counts under 600) and machines still in factory boxes. The 14k included Crate and Freight shipped from Florida. Also came with 9 new DBA's and Coin-co changers still in factory boxes. Also, 3 of the machines have key card acceptors and stacks of hotel like card keys that say "Saeco" on them. I have since found out I can "program" each card and put credits on them buy using the interface in the coffee machine. Great for places that don't need money. The original "Authorized Operators" paid $56,000. I can't believe the biz-op guys are that good of sellers. Who would pay that. I guess they did. They maybe got one of those $50,000 small business minimum take out loans.

I thought at first that maybe they fell for the, "if you buy 5 now, we will finance free the equivalent number in the future" gimmick. At $6,000 a piece, I could free finance the machines too and not loose a dime at that price point.

I didn't use a bank loan. No minimum payments need to be made, so it feels like every dollar that comes out is pure profit. Better than .0025% interest in the savings account. :

I could always easily find someone like me on ebay to take them off my hands if it doesn't work out. I don't have a garage to store them if needed like the previous "Authorized Operators" did.

Figured I can't loose. They are selling on Craig's list and E bay for around $1500 (highly used) and up to $3,000 new. Around the globe, they are selling for $5,600 average. Australia, they are everywhere and anyone can buy them from Saeco. just here in Canada and The US. Canmax has exclusivity so they can make a lot of money at the Biz-op shows.

I have since found plenty of parts from Saeco USA. They just didn't list the machines on their site do to the OEM like status of the machines. I have since found that the company will sell me all the parts I need. I just have to pay a lot for some plastic part you know that was made for pennies.

I did a lot of research and Saeco is like Snap-On tools. Leader in quality, durable, commercial equipment. The negatives I heard so far was cups jamming. I found out it is because people are buying "cheap" cups. You need 70 millimeter cups. Anyone of you know where I might find them?. I have 10,000 cups, stir sticks and a pallet of French Vanilla, Cappuccino Topping (cream) and hot chocolate powders.that came with the machines. The powders are 6 months from expiration. I should be good with supplies for a while, but I will need those special 70 mm cups (without handles) in the future. (hopefully)

[Mooman333]

Figured I can't loose. They are selling on Craig's list and E bay for around $1500 (highly used) and up to $3,000 new. Around the globe, they are selling for $5,600 average. Australia, they are everywhere and anyone can buy them from Saeco. just here in Canada and The US. Canmax has exclusivity so they can make a lot of money at the Biz-op shows.

Well by all means, I hope you are correct and have good luck. But i will point out there is a difference in items being listed on ebay at a price, and what is actually selling. If you look at the completed listings you will see none of these specific machines have sold. It does appear that Saeco does have some high dollar machines that have sold on ebay, but they are not vending machines.

[Greatdane]

Oh I forgot to mention, when I was doing a service/money grab check, One location was selling 64 cups average a day! I couldn't believe it. The location is a insurance call center with 100+ hens sitting in cubicles. I filled it 3 times in a week. The coffee machine can only dispense around 196 cups in a fill. for the week, 560 cups total went through the espresso machine. 560 minus my gift of 100= $460.00 that week and no errors (crosses fingers). I felt like I was emptying a slot machine. The coin-co was full of change and a big stack of bills and a bulging coin box.

I got this location by giving a fancy letter I wrote with Windows publisher to a friend that worked there. The letter said that she had won her work location a FREE coffee break that included all employees. The prize letter I wrote also stated that along with the 2.5 hours worth of free espresso's, mocha-chino's and Italian roast coffee, 100 free cappuccinos are included as a bonus. This allowed me to keep the machine on location until the credits are up. My good friend gave the letter to the office manager and within 1 day, I had a phone call asking me to bring on the free "coffee break" on Friday. I dispensed 78 free coffees in 2.5 hour's. My cost would have been $17.94 in product cost. Was actually free to me because the coffee machines came with a pallet of product. I must use it up or it expires in 6 months.

I went back 3 days later on Monday to see how things went and to "Remove" wink, wink, the office coffee service. A few minutes later the office manager raced around the corner and asked me what would it take to keep the coffee service. I said "No Cost" Her mouth dropped. I had her! In no time she was signing my contract specifying that 20 cups minimum shall be dispensed each day x6 days a week and anything under would be billed at .85 cents a cup. That's around $102.00 a week minimum. not too bad. In 10 weeks at the minimum, the coffee machine will have paid for itself. If the coffee count continues at current rate, the vendor will be paid off in two and a half weeks.

I didn't even have to give a commission. I gave her 25 coffee tokens that the coin-co takes. I told her that this is her bonus to give out as she pleases to clients and employee rewards. Each time I service, I give her the tokens back. If she uses the tokens, it costs me $5.75 in product cost. I also have magnetic business cards I had printed up by Vista print on the side of the coffee service for free ad placement. (copy below) The coffee service alone she considers a employee bonus.

I bet she was thinking that her employees now don't need to leave the office to go to Starbucks. Better to keep them from late coffee breaks. $1.00 is way cheaper than the $2.49 Starbucks equivalent French Vanilla Mocha chino. Nothing beats an employee knock-in back a double espresso to get the computer wpm (words per minute) up (sly smile)

Boy I had a good day!

[Greatdane]

My graphic I used to announce free coffee break and magnetic cards i put on coffee machines.

Also, this is the video that sold me on the coffee machine: You can tell it's from Europe. The background music is like German electric techno music you would hear in a youth hostile over there. :

http://youtu.be/CWbBhzj_cjE

Edited May 11, 2012 by Greatdane

[Greatdane]

Keeping my fingers crossed. I was wondering even if the "Authorized Operator" contract even allows them to sell these machines. You would think that in order to not cheapen the brand, Biz-op guys would put in the contract that you must offer for sale the machines to other operators rather than eBay where people like me would buy them so cheaply. I know I wouldn't want my possible new pray "Authorized Operators" to find out the true price before the hard sell.

If I were the operator that paid $56,000 for the machines and then found out that the profit potential was no where close, I would be upset and have nothing to do with the Biz-op guys. I would dump them on eBay and pray someone like myself would come along. When I bought these machines, The listing was only 18 minutes old and I did the buy out option. I knew what I wanted before hand after researching. I used Saeco SG 200 as search word to get a gist of what they were going for aftermarket.

[mission vending]

You need 70 millimeter cups. Anyone of you know where I might find them?

Try Vistar, http://www.vistar.com/Pages/default.aspx for your cups and supplies to reorder when you need it. If there is one close enough to drive to they do allow for pickup. If you want it delivered the minimum order for no delivery charge is around $1,000.00.

[mission vending]

Oh I forgot to mention, when I was doing a service/money grab check, One location was selling 64 cups average a day! I couldn't believe it. The location is a insurance call center with 100+ hens sitting in cubicles. I filled it 3 times in a week. The coffee machine can only dispense around 196 cups in a fill. for the week, 560 cups total went through the espresso machine. 560 minus my gift of 100= $460.00 that week and no errors (crosses fingers). I felt like I was emptying a slot machine. The coin-co was full of change and a big stack of bills and a bulging coin box.

I got this location by giving a fancy letter I wrote with Windows publisher to a friend that worked there. The letter said that she had won her work location a FREE coffee break that included all employees. The prize letter I wrote also stated that along with the 2.5 hours worth of free espresso's, mocha-chino's and Italian roast coffee, 100 free cappuccinos are included as a bonus. This allowed me to keep the machine on location until the credits are up. My good friend gave the letter to the office manager and within 1 day, I had a phone call asking me to bring on the free "coffee break" on Friday. I dispensed 78 free coffees in 2.5 hour's. My cost would have been $17.94 in product cost. Was actually free to me because the coffee machines came with a pallet of product. I must use it up or it expires in 6 months.

I went back 3 days later on Monday to see how things went and to "Remove" wink, wink, the office coffee service. A few minutes later the office manager raced around the corner and asked me what would it take to keep the coffee service. I said "No Cost" Her mouth dropped. I had her! In no time she was signing my contract specifying that 20 cups minimum shall be dispensed each day x6 days a week and anything under would be billed at .85 cents a cup. That's around $102.00 a week minimum. not too bad. In 10 weeks at the minimum, the coffee machine will have paid for itself. If the coffee count continues at current rate, the vendor will be paid off in two and a half weeks.

I didn't even have to give a commission. I gave her 25 coffee tokens that the coin-co takes. I told her that this is her bonus to give out as she pleases to clients and employee rewards. Each time I service, I give her the tokens back. If she uses the tokens, it costs me $5.75 in product cost. I also have magnetic business cards I had printed up by Vista print on the side of the coffee service for free ad placement. (copy below) The coffee service alone she considers a employee bonus.

I bet she was thinking that her employees now don't need to leave the office to go to Starbucks. Better to keep them from late coffee breaks. $1.00 is way cheaper than the $2.49 Starbucks equivalent French Vanilla Mocha chino. Nothing beats an employee knock-in back a double espresso to get the computer wpm (words per minute) up (sly smile)

Boy I had a good day!

Not all locations are going to be like this, but its a great feeling to get one like this. Have you considered working with a vending company to get locations? Many vending companies don't want to deal with coffee service and there are some opportunities for location sharing. Here in my area there is a company that this does with ice cream. They ONLY sell ice cream and so vendors (myself included) offer ice cream at some locations and bring them in as a subcontractor.

[Greatdane]

Not all locations are going to be like this, but its a great feeling to get one like this. Have you considered working with a vending company to get locations? Many vending companies don't want to deal with coffee service and there are some opportunities for location sharing. Here in my area there is a company that this does with ice cream. They ONLY sell ice cream and so vendors (myself included) offer ice cream at some locations and bring them in as a subcontractor.

I live in Superior National Forest in the middle of no where. I am very good friends with the northern Coke route driver. I was running a kinda speak-easy when laws weren't so harsh about serving those over 18 here in Minnesota. (Drinking age was 19) I was netting $450 a weekend and in one year I had 84 16 gallon kegs go through my 14x24 foot out building I turned into a full bar. Times were good while I was going to college. It lasted a year before the law came down and ended up with a serving alcohol without a license ticket and confiscation of everything. That's another story...

The Coke guy was having a beer or two and I mentioned I needed a beer vending machine and the next day I had a shiny newer Coke machine in my driveway and a large Co2 tank for my keg set up as I ran out of Co2 the day before. That was the time I wished I had a two wheel cart. The machine held like 450 cans. I called him that night and said I didn't want him to get in trouble and he said the Coke distributor gives these machines away. They never sold them. Just had to replace the lock so the keys didn't match all of Cokes vendors. It even came with the DBA and Coin-co. I had a feeling the Coke distributor probably keeps these when they give away their machines. wink, wink...

He already has given me 5 locations with 30 employees or more. He said they currently use the old $10 Walmart coffee pot thing they always forget to take off the burner when empty. If this continues, I'm gonna run out of coffee machines. I am not going to pay $5,600 for new machines.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saeco-SG200-Coffee-Hot-Beverage-Vending-Machine-DBA-Espresso-Cappucino-/180879588286?pt=BI_Vending&hash=item2a1d437bbe

It sure would be nice to only have to service the machines twice a week in 16 hours than working 40 for the same amount of income (or more). I'm going to stick with nine until I get my $14,000 investment.

$11,500 to go.

[kiwi]

What size cups are you currently using.. 6oz, 7oz or 8.25oz? You should be able to use any standard 70-73mm vending cup in a Saeco SG200 (same size cups are used in Necta Machine's). Cup size should be stamped on the bottom lip under the cup. I don't use Saeco's but know plenty of people who do use them & they are a very reliable machine's.

If they are new machine's you shouldn't have any mechanical issue's with them in the first few years as long as you keep them clean. The only thing I would suggest is that you use a quality water filter to prevent scale build up in your boiler's if you are not using them already.

I found a site in the USA on the web that supply parts for older saeco 7p & 8p models that may be able to help you out with parts for your SG200's. http://www.saecopart...arts-s/1919.htm you may also be able to buy part's directly from Saeco in Italy if you wanted too. Don't worry about Canmax saying they are the distributor's for the SG200 because I am sure Saeco will sell parts & new machine's directly to you if you wanted them too.

I think you made a good purchase on machine's at the price you payed for them & good luck in the Coffee Business!

Edited May 13, 2012 by Kiwi

[Greatdane]

I found a site in the USA on the web that supply parts for older saeco 7p & 8p models that may be able to help you out with parts for your SG200's. http://www.saecopart...arts-s/1919.htm you may also be able to buy part's directly from Saeco in Italy if you wanted too. Don't worry about Canmax saying they are the distributor's for the SG200 because I am sure Saeco will sell parts & new machine's directly to you if you wanted them too.

I think you made a good purchase on machine's at the price you payed for them & good luck in the Coffee Business!

Cool, thanks for the info. It says HV 08280-1 International Cup Corporation, Bennettsvile, SC and WWW.icupcorp.com. Now i know where to get cups. I can email them and ask where their nearest distributor is. They look like the cups she ordered with the machines. I have about 10,000 cups. almost 5 cases at 2000 a case. I'm sure I won't need cups in a while. If I do, I know I'm only $4,000 away from breaking even with my investment.

[Greatdane]

I forgot to mention that I'm using water out of a free flowing spring that runs at about 35 gallons a minute. There is a local water bottler that gets his water from the same 700 ft deep aquifer and distributes it around the Midwest. Next to zero reading with a salt meter and no Iron and calcium. Very soft natural water without chlorine and fluoride. Makes super awesome coffee. The spring is in the middle of no where. Me and and the locals use it for coffee because it doesn't ruin the coffee makers. I fill water jugs that you get for water coolers and refill my machines with that water. Saves about $6 for 5 gallons and it's only one mile away from me down a country road.

Buhl Water The Finest Drinking Water in America

Located high on the Laurentian Divide and midway across the historic Mesabi Range. This water is taken from an underground glacial river 700 feet below the surface. BUHL water is absolutely refreshing.

[Greatdane]

I would like to send a shout out to a eBook I found advertised on this site.

It saved me so much time, effort and best of all, cash!

If weather and this book were not on my side, I would be out lots of money. This book is advertised on a banner on this site/forum.

I was skeptical about buying, but I took the plunge. It was well worth it. It described in detail about the biz op guys (Franchise Expo) that almost had me hooked into paying way way to much for a vendor and a few pages of marketing material. Since reading the book, I will not be making the above and beginner mistakes.

I am not selling the book. I just want to make sure that others see my post and recommendation. If you look around the forum, you'll find the banner ad. Kind of like a treasure hunt!

My Vending Uncle

Can You Really Make Money

in the Vending Business?

If you are thinking about buying vending machines,

or starting a vending business,

The Truth About The Vending Business

[Greatdane]

I hope those individuals that are considering the Barista Supremo System would take a second look and I hope my posts on this forum saves you a lot of money by not falling for the biz opportunity sales pitch. I'm hoping that if people Google Barista Supremo System, Canmax, or Saeco SG200 will find this forum after searching for the key words.

I can't believe what they wanted for their "System" generic marketing material, a paid consultant/operator and two machines. $12,000. The Barista Supremo system is just a biz op that gives you some very expensive coffee grinder/vendors. Glad the bad weather was actually on my side as I missed the second meeting or I would be one of those people.

I feel their loss of cash. The people I got my machines from fell for the "Barista" program business opportunity and lost $50,000 according to the two machine lifetime cup counts. Very low counts of 600. A far cry from the cups needed to break even.

With the previous owners machines, I found two marketing CD's. One of them was the one I received at the biz op "franchise expo" show and the second was one they must have gave out at their limited duration, must act now presentation. I listened to it a couple times. It's kinda funny. It is like a self help cd. Constant positive words like, 'Believe in your self', 'now is the time', 'only you can believe in your destiny', 'the next step is yours', 'You know you want to so act on your feelings'.

Can you imagine 9 vendors at about $6,500 each set up with the required options! You would have to sell 58,000 cups of coffee not including product to just break even. WOW! that's a lot of coffee. I hope they are durable machines.

As I look back at the show, I remember asking two separate times from separate sales guys to see inside the vendor and they each said two different reasons why they couldn't open the coffee vendor. One reason was for the safety of customers in the Biz Op show. I guess the nuclear plutonium core must be radioactive and everyone wandering about will be exposed to deadly radiation and the second pitch man said insurance reasons prevents him from opening the machine. I guess they can't fill the machine with product either as it would also be an insurance risk their insurance underwriters couldn't handle. Ya right, If I would have had a look inside, I would have seen a overpriced coffee vendor rather than the mystery coffee grinding, money making machine. They definitely know how to pitch these machines. One "operator" was at the show and he said he has 27 machines out in San Francisco and pulls in 6 figures and working 2 days a week. I wonder what he gets out of the biz op expo?

I have Saeco SG 200 as a search word on eBay. E bay will notify you when someone lists them. I wouldn't pay more than $1000. for a new one. Also, check Craig's list as i have seen them listed there too.

As of this day, Canmax in Canada "Barista Supremo System" has yet even to return an email or phone call. I even left a message letting them know I have taken over their operators machines with business name.What money is in it for them when I got the machines way below their cherry price of $6,000 each. Only problem is your going blind if you need tech support. I can get parts from Saeco USA though. Canmax has exclusive distributorship in USA and Canada. If you Google around, Australia, of all places, has thousands of these.

I'm up on the Iron Range, Virginia-Hibbing, MN. I only have one machine placed so far and 4 more are in transit to me for a total of 9 machines. The one machine has already paid for itself as I only needed to sell less than $1500 in coffee. easy to do when it is giving out 45 cups average a day. It is so cool to empty a bulging DBA "dollar bill acceptor" pulling out $150 every few days. I can imagine 9 machines doing that. That's a lot of cash. The machines came with a pallet of consumables so start up product was easy.,

They are real easy to maintain and luckily I found the user manual online, as there was none with the first shipment of machines.

I have had one machine in the center of my kitchen and have become quite technically skilled on the inner workings. Better to learn the intricacies now rather than out in the field. Better than a Bunn coffee maker but these coffee machines give you freshly ground french Vanilla capachino. Nummy sugar coffee rush in the morning.

I have uploaded the user manual in case someone needs it too. I hope this has helped the would be Barista Supremo Operator.

[Greatdane]

I thought some people may find this useful if you are thinking of going through the "Biz Op" Barista program. I found it in some marketing material that came from the previous company I bought with the coffee machines. It is a list of what you get with their limited opportunity act now Barista Supremo System. the flyer is a couple years old so prices may have increased.

[mission vending]

Can you imagine 9 vendors at about $6,500 each set up with the required options! You would have to sell 58,000 cups of coffee not including product to just break even. WOW! that's a lot of coffee. I hope they are durable machines.

Actually that number is way low. You also need to take into account your cost to service. Here is a link to a thread that covers this subject.

http://vendiscuss.net/index.php?/topic/8150-cost-to-service/

[mission vending]

So in addition to the high pressure sales tactics they use and the way overpriced equipment...... here is another reason to very concerned about doing business with this company.

Looking at the canmax website, they claim to be a member of the National Business Opportunity Bureau. Well a quick search for "national business opportunity bureau" yields this:

http://www.ripoffrep...unity-2y962.htm

And no other info about this "organization"

[PerformaVending]

So in addition to the high pressure sales tactics they use and the way overpriced equipment...... here is another reason to very concerned about doing business with this company.

Looking at the canmax website, they claim to be a member of the National Business Opportunity Bureau. Well a quick search for "national business opportunity bureau" yields this:

http://www.ripoffrep...unity-2y962.htm

And no other info about this "organization"

That's a little weird.

[Greatdane]

That is very strange that they associate with a rip-off organization, and brag about it.

I never even looked up the group you did. The National Business Opportunity Bureau sounds so legit. I just took their word for it because the organization sounds so good. It does seem like Canmax has no real web presence. It is like someone/something is scrubbing their reputation. They never return my phone calls, emails or postal mail asking for the most basic information. If I were them, I would take every opportunity to do business with people that are any way interested in their program or products.

Their forum used to be open http://baristasupremo.blogspot.com but Canmax management closed their forum to outsiders because of "Griefers" I have a feeling that is code for disgruntled operators or others expressing their true negative views. I know If I were Canmax, I would want to control information and limit it to "Authorized Operators" and delete accounts or postings of those expressing negative views.

I can't say they, the Barista Supremo System 'ie' Canmax, Canada are good or bad but no information is a warning sign I choose not to overlook. If they are the most awesome hot, hot, hot business opportunity, they would be in all the industry magazines like vending times.

Of the two companies I bought to acquire the machines, one said he never ever, ever, ever wants anything to do with Canmax ever again. (lost $31,000) And, the other is the son of the operator that died and sold his moms business to me. Her loss, about, $38,000 according to the invoices that came with the books.That's a lot of coffee!

If Barista Supremo System is so great, there would be rave reviews about their program and the successes of their participants. There is like no worthwhile information on the web. Since I have been posting on this forum, the search engines have indexed vendiscuss.net and this forum is number one! (Grats to all of you!). Google is giving lead results pointing to this forum subject. Try it, Google Saeco SG200 Canmax. I guess that's because Canmax can't delete these posts or close this forum, Yet,hmmm

I make a point to not liable. I don't want Canmax lawyers knocking on my door. All my postings are solely mine and my opinions in no way reflects the beliefs or values of vendiscuss.net and it's participants, so there!

Canmax has been in business for over 15 years and it is like the internet knows nothing about them but what have written. If I were them I would put as much metadata in their website as possible so as to lead the search engines and interested people to their awesome opportunity. I'm so glad the major search engines are indexing this forum

I have already been contacted by a possible operator who went to the same Biz OP show I went to and thanks to my posts and the search engines, they are not going for their "Business Opportunity" I may just have a partnership in the works to benefit both of us. Feels good saving someone from a $24,000 mistake. $10,000 marketing package and $14,000 for (2) coffee vending machines.

Hats off to all that participate in this community and I am very grateful that this forum is here or others may have never found other opinions relating to the Canmax Barista Supremo System opportunity.

[Greatdane]

I just stumbled upon this. Looks like I found a disgruntled franchisee: http://www.justanswer.com/canada-law/1l1ao-contract-signed-no-cancellations.html

Can we get out of a contract we signed that said no cancellations”

Ask your own question now >

Can we get out of a contract we signed that said “no cancellations”? We were lead to believe that this company has sole distribution rights in North America for Saeco. We thought the only way to get into the business of Saeco gourmet coffee vending machines was to buy them through this company (Canmax). We just found out that is not true. They only have exclusive rights to one machine. We could have bought them through a local distributor. Can we get our deposit back? Canmax is saying no. They are located in Canada.

[Greatdane]

The following statements are my opinion and specific information I published has been provided by a third party and should not be considered accurate and are hereby retracted. Specific financial information should not be considered accurate and I apologize to those people named and affected by relying on third party information without verification before publication. I hereby request all my posts within this forum "Saeco SG 200 operators" be retracted or deleted at my request due to inaccurate or perceived inaccuracies via personal request from myself and those party's mentioned.

Hi there,

I am new to vending and have just found this very informative forum and already have received a wealth of information. I live in northern Minnesota on the Iron range near Canadian border. This intro is a little long but I hope I can get feedback.

I recently purchased 2 slightly used (less than 600 cups each on counter) and 7 brand new Saeco Supremo SG 200e commercial coffee vending machines still in factory box's with all accessories. Nine machines total including shipping from Florida to northern Minnesota, for a total investment of $14,000. All nine coffee vendors come with DBA's and coinco changers. Seven machines are still in the boxes and seven sets of bill validators and coinco changers are also in boxes. All these machines have a 2010 manufacture date.

I had seen these machines demoed by Canmax at a franchise expo in Minneapolis, Minnesota. After seeing them at the show, I was sold. I was invited by Canmax to come to a informational meeting to be held three days later. I drove 250 miles to get back home and planned on driving back for their potential operator meeting. It snowed 18 inches the night before the meeting and it was impossible for me to attend. I called and emailed them to let the exhibitor’s know that I wanted in and where do I send the money. I was told I was too late and they only accept people after lengthy face to face meetings and interviews. I was then told that they would be expanding in Cincinnati, Ohio whithin two years and I could attend that one. I really was sold on these machines and didn't want to wait that long. Just for the heck of it, I searched EBay for Saeco Supremo SG 200. I got a hit immediately. A person had just listed the vendors and the listing was only 18 minutes old before I stumbled upon the auction. I quickly and blindly placed my $14,000 offer bid and it was immediately accepted. I paid for the auction within 5 minutes through pay-pal.

When arranging shipping half way across the country, I was told that his mom had gone through Canmax in Canada. She spent $12,000 for their two machine entry program with territory in Florida. She started with 2 machines and started making money. She then bought 7 more machines for $6,500 for each with DBA's and coinco changer options for a total of $45,500. The invoices included with the marketing material totaled about $56,000. His mother suddenly died of cancer and her son works for the government and can't have a side business, so he sold everything to me on EBay.

I find I got more than I hoped for! A big bonus with the machines included ten cases (6-2lbs each case) of cappuccino topping (powdered milk), hot chocolate and French Vanilla. There was also a duffle bag that says "Barista Supremo System" full of about 30 lbs. of premium various coffee beans in foil vacuum factory sealed bags.

The problem I am having is that Canmax will have nothing to do with me because I didn't go through their authorized exclusive "Authorized Operator" program. I tried getting access to their forums BARISTA OPERATOR FORUM and was denied access even know I bought her company name and coffee machines that they sold to her. I then looked for other forums and information and found Early 1st Generation Barista Equipment Owner and Operator Blog: Barista Supreme Program Comments. After 2007 a guy by the name of Grant Rodgers, Manager of Canmax, Canada closed the forum and made it a "Authorized Operator" only forum where Canmax will not give me access. He posts throughout the forums that it was done to prevent mischief. I really don't believe that and feel it was closed to make it harder for people like me to get tech support and fellow vendor operator advice and to prevent people like me from starting a new territory where no machines like these are located without their blessing and expensive "Authorized Operator" membership franchise like program. Anyone not familiar with the Saeco SG200 can go here to see the machine and their info (very vague) http://www.baristaminicafe.com/

Canmax's old 2007 "Authorized Operator" forum seemed so useful pertaining to what I read in early posts before it was closed. I kept hitting dead end's dealing with Canmax and each person I talked to (voice mail) including Grant Rodgers (who I was told is a great guy and returns calls and emails right away) either said I must be an "Authorized Operator" or they did not return my calls and emails.

I feel so luckily that I found this wealth of information in this awesome forum. I am hopeful there are others like myself with these machines to learn from and also give advice once I begin to get to know people and read others questions in the forums. I am a HVAC/r technician and if their are any refrigeration questions, I'm your guy.

My first question I have is: Are there any other people like me that work with Saeco SG 200 Coffee machines. I know I will need some advice, assistance and technical suport in the future and hoping there are people like me in these cool forums. I also placed this question and intro with subject line to catch other operator’s attention in the proper forum.

Thank you for your time and patience reading this long intro and question.

Eddie

The following statements are my opinion and specific information I published has been provided by a third party and should not be considered accurate and are hereby retracted. Specific financial information should not be considered accurate and I apologize to those people named and affected by relying on third party information without verification before publication. I hereby request all my posts within this forum "Saeco SG 200 operators" be retracted or deleted at my request due to inaccurate or perceived inaccuracies via personal request from myself and those party's mentioned.

That is very strange that they associate with a rip-off organization, and brag about it.

I never even looked up the group you did. The National Business Opportunity Bureau sounds so legit. I just took their word for it because the organization sounds so good. It does seem like Canmax has no real web presence. It is like someone/something is scrubbing their reputation. They never return my phone calls, emails or postal mail asking for the most basic information. If I were them, I would take every opportunity to do business with people that are any way interested in their program or products.

Their forum used to be open http://baristasupremo.blogspot.com but Canmax management closed their forum to outsiders because of "Griefers" I have a feeling that is code for disgruntled operators or others expressing their true negative views. I know If I were Canmax, I would want to control information and limit it to "Authorized Operators" and delete accounts or postings of those expressing negative views.

I can't say they, the Barista Supremo System 'ie' Canmax, Canada are good or bad but no information is a warning sign I choose not to overlook. If they are the most awesome hot, hot, hot business opportunity, they would be in all the industry magazines like vending times.

Of the two companies I bought to acquire the machines, one said he never ever, ever, ever wants anything to do with Canmax ever again. (lost $31,000) And, the other is the son of the operator that died and sold his moms business to me. Her loss, about, $38,000 according to the invoices that came with the books.That's a lot of coffee!

If Barista Supremo System is so great, there would be rave reviews about their program and the successes of their participants. There is like no worthwhile information on the web. Since I have been posting on this forum, the search engines have indexed vendiscuss.net and this forum is number one! (Grats to all of you!). Google is giving lead results pointing to this forum subject. Try it, Google Saeco SG200 Canmax. I guess that's because Canmax can't delete these posts or close this forum, Yet,hmmm

I make a point to not liable. I don't want Canmax lawyers knocking on my door. All my postings are solely mine and my opinions in no way reflects the beliefs or values of vendiscuss.net and it's participants, so there!

Canmax has been in business for over 15 years and it is like the internet knows nothing about them but what have written. If I were them I would put as much metadata in their website as possible so as to lead the search engines and interested people to their awesome opportunity. I'm so glad the major search engines are indexing this forum

I have already been contacted by a possible operator who went to the same Biz OP show I went to and thanks to my posts and the search engines, they are not going for their "Business Opportunity" I may just have a partnership in the works to benefit both of us. Feels good saving someone from a $24,000 mistake. $10,000 marketing package and $14,000 for (2) coffee vending machines.

Hats off to all that participate in this community and I am very grateful that this forum is here or others may have never found other opinions relating to the Canmax Barista Supremo System opportunity.

The following statements are my opinion and specific information I published has been provided by a third party and should not be considered accurate and are hereby retracted. Specific financial information should not be considered accurate and I apologize to those people named and affected by relying on third party information without verification before publication. I hereby request all my posts within this forum "Saeco SG 200 operators" be retracted or deleted at my request due to inaccurate or perceived inaccuracies via personal request from myself and those party's mentioned.

I paid $14,000 total for 9 new machines (2 were slightly used with cup counts under 600) and machines still in factory boxes. The 14k included Crate and Freight shipped from Florida. Also came with 9 new DBA's and Coin-co changers still in factory boxes. Also, 3 of the machines have key card acceptors and stacks of hotel like card keys that say "Saeco" on them. I have since found out I can "program" each card and put credits on them buy using the interface in the coffee machine. Great for places that don't need money. The original "Authorized Operators" paid $56,000. I can't believe the biz-op guys are that good of sellers. Who would pay that. I guess they did. <img src='http://vendiscuss.net/public/style_emoticons/default/undecided.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':-' /> They maybe got one of those $50,000 small business minimum take out loans.

I thought at first that maybe they fell for the, "if you buy 5 now, we will finance free the equivalent number in the future" gimmick. At $6,000 a piece, I could free finance the machines too and not loose a dime at that price point.

I didn't use a bank loan. No minimum payments need to be made, so it feels like every dollar that comes out is pure profit. Better than .0025% interest in the savings account.

I did a lot of research and Saeco is like Snap-On tools. Leader in quality, durable, commercial equipment. The negatives I heard so far was cups jamming. I found out it is because people are buying "cheap" cups. You need 70 millimeter cups. Anyone of you know where I might find them?. I have 10,000 cups, stir sticks and a pallet of French Vanilla, Cappuccino Topping (cream) and hot chocolate powders.that came with the machines. The powders are 6 months from expiration. I should be good with supplies for a while, but I will need those special 70 mm cups (without handles) in the future. (hopefully)

Keeping my fingers crossed. I was wondering even if the "Authorized Operator" contract even allows them to sell these machines. You would think that in order to not cheapen the brand, Biz-op guys would put in the contract that you must offer for sale the machines to other operators rather than eBay where people like me would buy them so cheaply. I know I wouldn't want my possible new pray "Authorized Operators" to find out the true price before the hard sell.

If I were the operator that paid $56,000 for the machines and then found out that the profit potential was no where close, I would be upset and have nothing to do with the Biz-op guys. I would dump them on eBay and pray someone like myself would come along. When I bought these machines, The listing was only 18 minutes old and I did the buy out option. I knew what I wanted before hand after researching. I used Saeco SG 200 as search word to get a gist of what they were going for aftermarket.

[Greatdane]

The following statements are my opinion and specific information I published has been provided by a third party and should not be considered accurate and are hereby retracted. Specific financial information should not be considered accurate and I apologize to those people named and affected by relying on third party information without verification before publication. I hereby request all my posts within this forum "Saeco SG 200 operators" be retracted or deleted at my request due to inaccurate or perceived inaccuracies via personal request from myself and those party's mentioned.

I hope those individuals that are considering the Barista Supremo System would take a second look and I hope my posts on this forum saves you a lot of money by not falling for the biz opportunity sales pitch. I'm hoping that if people Google Barista Supremo System, Canmax, or Saeco SG200 will find this forum after searching for the key words.

I can't believe what they wanted for their "System" generic marketing material, a paid consultant/operator and two machines. $12,000. The Barista Supremo system is just a biz op that gives you some very expensive coffee grinder/vendors. Glad the bad weather was actually on my side as I missed the second meeting or I would be one of those people.

I feel their loss of cash. The people I got my machines from fell for the "Barista" program business opportunity and lost $50,000 according to the two machine lifetime cup counts. Very low counts of 600. A far cry from the cups needed to break even.

With the previous owners machines, I found two marketing CD's. One of them was the one I received at the biz op "franchise expo" show and the second was one they must have gave out at their limited duration, must act now presentation. I listened to it a couple times. It's kinda funny. It is like a self help cd. Constant positive words like, 'Believe in your self', 'now is the time', 'only you can believe in your destiny', 'the next step is yours', 'You know you want to so act on your feelings'.

Can you imagine 9 vendors at about $6,500 each set up with the required options! You would have to sell 58,000 cups of coffee not including product to just break even. WOW! that's a lot of coffee. I hope they are durable machines.

As I look back at the show, I remember asking two separate times from separate sales guys to see inside the vendor and they each said two different reasons why they couldn't open the coffee vendor. One reason was for the safety of customers in the Biz Op show. I guess the nuclear plutonium core must be radioactive and everyone wandering about will be exposed to deadly radiation and the second pitch man said insurance reasons prevents him from opening the machine. I guess they can't fill the machine with product either as it would also be an insurance risk their insurance underwriters couldn't handle. Ya right, If I would have had a look inside, I would have seen a overpriced coffee vendor rather than the mystery coffee grinding, money making machine. They definitely know how to pitch these machines. One "operator" was at the show and he said he has 27 machines out in San Francisco and pulls in 6 figures and working 2 days a week. I wonder what he gets out of the biz op expo?

I have Saeco SG 200 as a search word on eBay. E bay will notify you when someone lists them. I wouldn't pay more than $1000. for a new one. Also, check Craig's list as i have seen them listed there too.

As of this day, Canmax in Canada "Barista Supremo System" has yet even to return an email or phone call. I even left a message letting them know I have taken over their operators machines with business name.What money is in it for them when I got the machines way below their cherry price of $6,000 each. Only problem is your going blind if you need tech support. I can get parts from Saeco USA though. Canmax has exclusive distributorship in USA and Canada. If you Google around, Australia, of all places, has thousands of these.

I'm up on the Iron Range, Virginia-Hibbing, MN. I only have one machine placed so far and 4 more are in transit to me for a total of 9 machines. The one machine has already paid for itself as I only needed to sell less than $1500 in coffee. easy to do when it is giving out 45 cups average a day. It is so cool to empty a bulging DBA "dollar bill acceptor" pulling out $150 every few days. I can imagine 9 machines doing that. That's a lot of cash. The machines came with a pallet of consumables so start up product was easy.,

They are real easy to maintain and luckily I found the user manual online, as there was none with the first shipment of machines.

I have had one machine in the center of my kitchen and have become quite technically skilled on the inner workings. Better to learn the intricacies now rather than out in the field. Better than a Bunn coffee maker but these coffee machines give you freshly ground french Vanilla capachino. Nummy sugar coffee rush in the morning.

I have uploaded the user manual in case someone needs it too. I hope this has helped the would be Barista Supremo Operator.

I thought some people may find this useful if you are thinking of going through the "Biz Op" Barista program. I found it in some marketing material that came from the previous company I bought with the coffee machines. It is a list of what you get with their limited opportunity act now Barista Supremo System. the flyer is a couple years old so prices may have increased.

Keeping my fingers crossed. I was wondering even if the "Authorized Operator" contract even allows them to sell these machines. You would think that in order to not cheapen the brand, Biz-op guys would put in the contract that you must offer for sale the machines to other operators rather than eBay where people like me would buy them so cheaply. I know I wouldn't want my possible new pray "Authorized Operators" to find out the true price before the hard sell.

If I were the operator that paid $56,000 for the machines and then found out that the profit potential was no where close, I would be upset and have nothing to do with the Biz-op guys. I would dump them on eBay and pray someone like myself would come along. When I bought these machines, The listing was only 18 minutes old and I did the buy out option. I knew what I wanted before hand after researching. I used Saeco SG 200 as search word to get a gist of what they were going for aftermarket.

[Greatdane]

Statements made in this forum are my opinion and specific information I published that is deemed harmful has been provided by a third party and should not be considered accurate and are hereby retracted. Specific financial information should not be considered accurate and I apologize to those people named and affected by relying on third party information without verification before publication. I hereby request all my posts within this forum "Saeco SG 200 operators" be retracted or deleted at my request due to inaccurate or perceived inaccuracies via personal request from myself and those party's mentioned.

Please notify me for any other posts missed but not retracted as requests or further information will be replied to ASAP.