IS IT POSSIBLE TO GO FULL TIME WITH THE ACRYLIC STYLE HONOR BOXES?

[fredfarmer775]

Do you think it would be a good business model to ONLY use the acrylic style honor boxes to do all your vending with? I'm thinking perhaps using the NCCS stickers to go along with this, what do you guys think?

 

It seems to me that from what I've heard, the acrylic style honor boxes RULE over the cardboard honor boxes for the following reasons:

 

1) Time factor - No time needed to spend restocking any of the boxes. You'd simply take boxes of Peppermint Patties into your locations with you, take a quick glance to see if you weren't shorted by an extreme amount (you'd need to be ripped off by 75% or more to actually lose money), dump the money out, restock the product and leave. All of that being done inside of 30 seconds, you could service 100 accounts in a day that way, easily.

 

2) Far less shortage than the cardboard honor box system - I think there is a definite psychological affect a charity sticker that says "National Children With Cancer Society" has in the way of keeping the customer from ripping the box off than just a regular honor box run by the average Joe has. I think particularly in the way you present yourself, if you wear one of the NCCS shirts and hat then that will also prevent shortages. I also think that the box itself, because it's clear, prevents theft because people can see if someone's actually put money inside. You also have the advantage of having lower COGS per acrylic honor box over cardboard honor box. With far less shortages means that a lot more accounts will stay in service, means that you can compact your route into much shorter travel times into less time spent all around, because time = money. That extra time could then be spent finding more locations.

 

Any of you guys who are already doing acrylic, based on your experience do you think this is something you could do full time? 

[orsd]

I don't think so

[fredfarmer775]

Why do you say that orsd?

[orsd]

http://vendiscuss.net/index.php?/topic/11962-honor-box-business-warning/

http://vendiscuss.net/index.php?/topic/11905-ive-given-up-hope-with-honor-boxes-am-i-wrong-here/

[fredfarmer775]

WOW!!! That guy sounded like he had some serious problems! 

[treadmill]

That guy was doing snack honor boxes and not the acrylic ones. I know you can do this full time. I think the way you want to service your boxes is not a good way to do it. Just walk in and swap out the box and either do it in your car or take it home and do it there. I think you will be surprised that there is alot of shrinkage with these boxes. People don't care and will take if they want it. No morales.

[fredfarmer775]

treadmill, why is it not a good way to do it?

[treadmill]

treadmill, why is it not a good way to do it?

Reread my post. I said nothing about it not being a good idea. I do it now part time with 250 boxes located. Oh by the way you will not be able to service 100 boxes in a day. I can do about 60 per day right now but the locations have to be really close together to accomplish. The reason it's not good to do it in front of your clients customers is for one it is not safe flaunting money all over the place. You kind of need to do it in a non conspiculos way to not bring that much attention to yourself.

Edited June 26, 2013 by treadmill

[fredfarmer775]

I KNOW I can do 100 in a day. I've done cardboard honor boxes before and I've got a real good idea how long it took to service those. Without having to switch out honor boxes like you were saying, I could EASILY do 100 in a day. I wouldn't ever count ANY money. All I would do is eyeball the box as I walked up to it, dump the money out and restock the product (if needed) and leave. In and out on average in less than 1 minute. If I've got on average of 3-5 stops within a mile of each other, that's not more than about 20 miles driven.

 

I had to ask you this treadmill, and I hope you don't mind if I ask you about it here (because the post I was looking at looked like an old post).....The way you have your boxes set up (in the picture you provided) I think would do very little in the way of deterring theft. I think in some ways it might actually encourage more people to steal from you. The reason being is because the top sign implies a negative "These are not free." Implies to some people "If you don't have money, get lost." Also the sign beneath that says that you will donate a portion of your proceeds to charity. I think a lot of people might say "Oh yeah, right! Like I'm supposed to believe that." and may rip you off even more because of it. I also looked at your stats versus another persons stats who was using the NCCS stickers and it confirmed all of this to me. I would bet anything that if you removed the stickers you have on there now and then not only put the NCCS sticker on there but also put a sticker of the picture that NCCS has of the child holding up the sign that says "Thank You" as well as wear their uniform (NCCS hat and shirt) when you service your boxes, you would see your theft rate be cut AT LEAST in half. That may not work in the locations you already have (because those people already know you) but I'll bet it would most definitely work in any new locations.   

[treadmill]

To each his own. I've been doing this long enough to know what works and what doesn't work. Since you know what works that fine but when people see your box all full of fingerprints and dust they won't want to touch your candy and also with the way you service and do you know if that location is really doing what it should be doing anyways without knowing what your shrinkage is. This is a very important stat to know. I have been successful in doing this. As you will find out you will have to pull some locations due to slow sales or high shrinkage. Oh I forgot you don't count shrinkage or don't keep track of individual sales per location. This business is a work in progress you always are locating and relocating boxes.

[fredfarmer775]

treadmill,

I agree with you that the box must be free of fingerprints but I think that can be done inside of 30 seconds with a rag and simply taking any trash with you. When I was doing honor boxes, I had people throw junk in there all the time but it doesn't take more than a few seconds to leaf that out and throw it away. I also came to the conclusion, during the process of doing carboard honor boxes, that there were ONLY 2 stats that really ever mattered: 1) Was I selling enough product? 2) Was I getting ripped off at that location? When I first started out (with cardboard) I was customizing boxes for everyone and recording all kinds of stats. Loss percentage, how many items I sold, percentage loss, net profit, etc, etc. I very quickly came to realkize that if I wanted to maximize production and profit for my business I couldn't be wasting time with all that stuff, not to mention the fact that those extra stats I was recording never had any use for me anyway. Now taking these acrylic style honor boxes into account, you are ONLY dealing with 1 product, not multiple products on a plan-0-gram system so to me it's more similar to bulk candy machines. You would not want to switch gumball machines out, so why switch the acrylic style honor boxes out? I think that's a complete waste of time and money. I know you may say that that would make the theft rate go up but I think the theft rate is ENTIRELY about people's perception of you. If they think that your there to just make money (which no offense, based on the picture of your acrylic honor boxes, is what is being portrayed to the public) you're going to be FAR MORE prone to getting ripped off than if they think of what you're doing as helping children with cancer. If you cast the perception that you are helping children with cancer, you'll still have those who will rip you off (not as many though and not as frequently) but you'll also have those who will pay extra and cover the losses of others who have ripped you off. Those people who will pay extra, if they think you are helping children with cancer, would not pay extra if they think you're just there to make money. I think that's being reflected in your stats versus another persons stats. Why would you have theft rate of over 30% and the other person has theft rate of practically nothing (and at times has even reported a negative theft rate loss?)

I respect that you have done this for a while and have so many of these boxes out there. However, this type of business isn't just about the vending industry. I think this type of vending has a whole lot more to do with psychology and the study of people than with anything else.

Edited June 26, 2013 by fredfarmer775

[sherlock]

No offense fredfarmer, just curious....

 

Since you "know" you can service 100 boxes a day, and you "know" how to efficiently manage an honor-box route, and you "know" how to minimize shrinkage, and you "know" how an honor box should be presented, why all the threads with questions normally asked by newbies?

 

If you are a newbie, that's fine...we were all newbies once.

So there is no need to pretend you are not.

 

However, if you DO have the knowledge and experience you claim to have, then what are you waiting for? Get out there and do it...all these newbie-type questions shows a lack of confidence in your abilities. And that's not going to go away until you actually stop typing about it and actually start doing it.

 

[fredfarmer775]

Some good questions there Sherlock, but to reply to what you said about the confidence issue, that's not the reason why I am posting here. I'm posting because to me it's like a focus group for the business that I'm getting ready to start. I think focus groups where all points of view are discussed and then counter points are also discussed is always the best method to use when it comes to launching a new business. Since I'm not a corporation and thus don't have the money to hold my own focus group, this is the next best thing. Not only will this help me but it will also help other people who are thinking of starting this type of business themselves because then they can go back and read these posts and maybe even develop some of their own ideas. 

 

I don't think "confidence" is really a relative term at all when it comes to starting and running any business because what's important is not whether you think your business will sky rocket and flourish. What matters is what everyone else thinks of your business because they are your source of revenue.

Edited June 26, 2013 by fredfarmer775

[fredfarmer775]

BTW, I appreciate hearing your point of view treadmill. Thank you for input coming from your perspective of past experience with acrylic honor boxes.Your counter points are causing me to think more.

[Makes Cents]

fredfarmer775 , Ive enjoyed reading your posts and you have asked some really good questions, I know I've learned some things, but it seems like when vendors who have experience with honor boxes answer your questions you are dismissive. May I suggest being more receptive to the answers given or consider not asking the questions.

[fredfarmer775]

Thank you MakesCents, but I think you guys are misinterpreting me. I'm not dismissing them, I'm taking very much into account of what they are saying (and I appreciate their input). I'm merely offering counter points to what they are saying. I think the best methods for doing business are discovered when you have as many  people as possible giving their own perspectives and then counter points are given to initial points of view. That's the way that all focus groups for businesses are done. You have to have everything out on the table first before you can start to put the puzzle together. I'm not in anyway dismissing anyone. I'm hoping to develop the best model for doing business and the only way to do that is to get as many points of view as you can since it's always going to be other people who will determine the success or failure of your business. You aren't the source of your profits, other people are.  

 

 

On another note - Another idea I'm coming up with aside from puttig the NCCS stcker on the box as well as the sticker of the child looking back at you with a sign that says "Thank You" (which has VERY profound psychological impact) is also getting the brochures from NCCS and somehow attaching a brochure holder on the acrylic to place these in.I think that would add an extra dimension of professionalism and further cast the appearance that you are about helping children with cancer.  

Edited June 26, 2013 by fredfarmer775

[Harvending]

Thank you MakesCents, but I think you guys are misinterpreting me. I'm not dismissing them, I'm taking very much into account of what they are saying (and I appreciate their input). I'm merely offering counter points to what they are saying. I think the best methods for doing business are discovered when you have as many  people as possible giving their own perspectives and then counter points are given to initial points of view. That's the way that all focus groups for businesses are done. You have to have everything out on the table first before you can start to put the puzzle together. I'm not in anyway dismissing anyone. I'm hoping to develop the best model for doing business and the only way to do that is to get as many points of view as you can since it's always going to be other people who will determine the success or failure of your business. You aren't the source of your profits, other people are.  

 

 

On another note - Another idea I'm coming up with aside from puttig the NCCS stcker on the box as well as the sticker of the child looking back at you with a sign that says "Thank You" (which has VERY profound psychological impact) is also getting the brochures from NCCS and somehow attaching a brochure holder on the acrylic to place these in.I think that would add an extra dimension of professionalism and further cast the appearance that you are about helping children with cancer.  

You have PM me with questions. but I thought to answer here. As for profit I keep it simple.  To fill a box cost $7.00. 100 mints  My loss is 30% that is 30 mints=$2.10.  $7.00 + $2.10=$9.10 cogs. 70 mints x.25=$17.50  net profit  $8.40.  I have an agreement with the local food bank as a charity. I like helping local and locations like local.  I know that charities like NCCS will not allow to alter their sticker. You are going to have shortage, If shortage is too much you try a new spot in the location or pull the box. 

[fredfarmer775]

OK thanks so much for the info Harv, that's very helpful. If you don't mind I just need to ask you a few questions:

 

1) Does the regular NCCS sticker fit on the acrylic box?

 

2) Is that $17.50 net profit PER MONTH and $8.40 net profit EVERY 2 WEEKS?

 

3) How many of these (percentage wise) do you have to pull because of theft?

 

4) I would very much so appreciate (as I'm sure a lot of other people would appreciate) you explaining exactly how you switch your boxes out when you go into service your accounts. What exactly is your own method that you use? You don't actually have 2 boxes per every account, do you? I appreciate you causing me to think here and the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm beginning to see your point about simply switching out the box when you go in to service an account and then leaving. Then you can do all the other stuff while you're in your car (possibly waiting at a traffic light). I read another post you made about only needing 6 boxes to service with but I'm not exactly sure what you're describing there. I think it's very intelligent though and it cuts down on people stopping to talk with you while you're servicing your boxes, because you're in and out much faster. I just don't quite get the exact step by step method you're describing.  

Also, in your opinion, what product is better to vend with in these things: Peppermint Patties or Bob's Mints?

[mission vending]

Interesting discussion. I don't and haven't done honor boxes but I'd thought I'd make a comment or two.

 

Fred, my impression from your posts are that you somehow feel that by using a charity sticker that you will experience less shrinkage or theft. From my experiences of 30+ years since entering the workforce is that people are who they are and if they are the type to steal then they are going to steal and some charity sticker will make little, if any, difference to them.

 

You also mention wearing the charity shirt and hat so that people will associate you with the charity and thereby reduce theft issues. By stating that you think that it is a good idea to do so has you walking out onto some pretty thin ice. Its been a topic of discussion in the bulk section previously and many full time bulk vendors feel that doing so is intentionally deceptive and misleading. I would agree with that sentiment.

 

You also mention that to be productive that you need to walk in and swap boxes and be in and out in a minute or two. In vending I have learned the longevity of your locations is directly proportional to the level of the relationship that you build with your customers, don't know if it applies to honor boxes or not but it is something to consider.

[treadmill]

York patties are by far the best to use. When I service my route I have about 50-60 prepped and ready for swapout. I start around 9:30 in the morning and will work until I finish or until 5 to 5:30 whatever comes first. Now when I go in to the business I greet the owner and tell them I there to change out the candy box and then I'm on my way to the next location. Sometimes I stay and chat for a few minutes if they are not too busy and then it's time to move on. Then I go home and count the money, wipe down the boxes and refill for the next day of service. I have serviced up to 70 locations in one day before. Makes for a long day though.

Edited June 26, 2013 by treadmill

[Harvending]

OK thanks so much for the info Harv, that's very helpful. If you don't mind I just need to ask you a few questions:

 

1) Does the regular NCCS sticker fit on the acrylic box?

 

2) Is that $17.50 net profit PER MONTH and $8.40 net profit EVERY 2 WEEKS?

 

3) How many of these (percentage wise) do you have to pull because of theft?

 

4) I would very much so appreciate (as I'm sure a lot of other people would appreciate) you explaining exactly how you switch your boxes out when you go into service your accounts. What exactly is your own method that you use? You don't actually have 2 boxes per every account, do you? I appreciate you causing me to think here and the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm beginning to see your point about simply switching out the box when you go in to service an account and then leaving. Then you can do all the other stuff while you're in your car (possibly waiting at a traffic light). I read another post you made about only needing 6 boxes to service with but I'm not exactly sure what you're describing there. I think it's very intelligent though and it cuts down on people stopping to talk with you while you're servicing your boxes, because you're in and out much faster. I just don't quite get the exact step by step method you're describing.  

Also, in your opinion, what product is better to vend with in these things: Peppermint Patties or Bob's Mints?

The numbers I showed is an example if the box sells empty. On average boxes sell empty 20 days $15.00 net profit x   locations. This a numbers business. I use York , Bobs Mints and Mini  Candy from Sams. Yorks are 85%.  The problem with Bobs mints people think these are free and a lot of Restaurants have them and I have high loss in Mini candy, I am to change them to York.  This is why I carry 6 boxes for 3 products, one mistake I learned. Service method, Clean and fill, take in and switch back to car and repeat  Takes all of 3 minutes. Do this 100 times.  Your sticker will have to go on the front or side, I don't think it will fit on the coin box section of the box. 

[fredfarmer775]

Mission Vending, that's true that there ARE going to be those types of people BUT when you are representing a charity, like Harvending was saying on another post, it brings the shrinkage rates way down. I personally think (and please don't take offense to this treadmill because I'm only saying this objectively) you can see the difference between Harvending's theft rate numbers and treadmill's theft rate numbers. Harvending uses a charity sticker and treadmill doesn't.

 

Perhaps I'm all wrong here but following Harvending's posts, it sounds like he's having a much better go at this as far as people not stealing from him. Harvending, do you have anything to say here?

 

As far as the service issue, I'm not saying to just run in and switch the boxes and never speak to anyone. But when I was doing regular honor boxes I would smile and say hello and if someone wanted to chat with me I would speak with them. I think since you're in someone elses place of business, the most professional (and polite) thing to do is to be as unobtrusive as possible.

 

I think also the deception thing, if you want to look at it that way, then that's your own personal choice. There is no such thing as a true charity in a monetary market system where no one working for that charity does not somehow benefit monetarily or otherwise receive some other kind of goods or services (that can be exchanged for money). Thus ALL non-profits are basically businesses making money but in a slightly different way. I think also that someone wearing a uniform for a charity while running a bulk candy vending business could also give more to the charity if they wanted to, but in turn, how do they even know how much that particular charity would keep for themselves? When it comes down to a business like honor boxes and whether or not you're going to stay in business depends on whether or not people rip you off, I don't think it's fair to apply ethics to a situation like that. If you did, you'd have to also point the finger at every non-profit and charity organization out there. Basically what I'm saying in a nutshell is you can't blame the player, you have to blame the game. 

[Harvending]

I have to respond. Treadmill and myself keep in touch with each other about our business. please do not compare us.  I calculate my loss on my cogs. I think Treadmill calculates on sell price. Everyone has their way. Loss is not going to be different overall. You are over thinking this. Put 100 boxes out and build a route. You will learn what you need to know.

[fredfarmer775]

My apologies to both you and treadmill if I offended you for comparing you to each other.

 

Harvending, if you don't mind, I just need to ask you 3 things:

 

1) How much is your average theft rate percentage per box per every time you service your boxes?

 

2) How many total acrylic boxes do you have on location now?

 

3)How long have you been doing acrylic boxes for? 

[sherlock]

I think also the deception thing, if you want to look at it that way, then that's your own personal choice. There is no such thing as a true charity in a monetary market system where no one working for that charity does not somehow benefit monetarily or otherwise receive some other kind of goods or services (that can be exchanged for money). Thus ALL non-profits are basically businesses making money but in a slightly different way. I think also that someone wearing a uniform for a charity while running a bulk candy vending business could also give more to the charity if they wanted to, but in turn, how do they even know how much that particular charity would keep for themselves? When it comes down to a business like honor boxes and whether or not you're going to stay in business depends on whether or not people rip you off, I don't think it's fair to apply ethics to a situation like that. If you did, you'd have to also point the finger at every non-profit and charity organization out there. Basically what I'm saying in a nutshell is you can't blame the player, you have to blame the game. 

 

 

 

PLEASE STOP!

 

I addressed this issue with you on another thread but apparently it didn't sink in.

 

You can't even remotely compare the financial management options of vendors with those of 501c non-profit organizations.

While both non-profits AND charity/honor box routes are businesses, making comments stating that the fiscal management of non-profit and ANY for-profit business are only "slightly" different is...well...less-than-intelligent.

 

If you want to handle your business earnings in a manner similar to federally recognized 501c organizations, go right ahead...enjoy your money and your freedom while you have it.

BUT PLEASE don't push that BS on this forum.