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Bean-to-Cup Automatics: Cafection-Virtu-S'Buck's Interactive-Others?


davekro

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(Sorry for the mini novel... I've been accused of being detail oriented.  ;o)

I am curious of the experience of you here that are using automatic Bean-To-Cup espresso machines. I only do free vend and w/ powdered milk (no fresh milk PIA's)  I have been reading a bit about the Cafection (Total 1, Venti-4), de Jong (Virtu, Nio) Starbuck's (Interactive) models.  If there are any other models you know of that are OCS operator friendly as well as available and parts supported in the U.S, please let me know.

http://www.cafection.com/en/innovation

http://www.cafection.com/en/innovation/overview/venti-4#series

https://www.thecoffeeconnection.ca/pdf/the_coffee_connection_virtu_touch.pdf

http://www.dejongduke.com/nio

http://www.canteen.com/equipment/starbucks-interactive-cup-digital/

 

Reverse French Press vs. Espresso Brew group:    Having never used, seen or tasted a Rev. Fr. Press machine, I am very curious of their: 1) Ease of maintenance    2)  How are they perceived by accounts wanting high end automatic Bean-To-Cup machines that also look the high end cache part.  The Cafection Avalon and Innovation machines use a  reverse French press brew chamber. The Colibri, Krea and HLF use a brew group to actually press an espresso. ( I don't know what S'Buck's interactive uses).

I have experience with the Colibri LX8 <  http://www.brokerhousedist.com/userfile/pdf/Colibri LX Spec Sheet.pdf  >and Saeco DA7P (years ago)  < http://www.indexcafea.ro/fisiere/90708manual de utilizare automat de cafea saeco 7p.pdf >. These were pretty reliable w/ relatively low maintenance for an espresso machine even when doing 50-60 cups a day, compared to three HLF 4600 G2's < http://www.hlf.it/ns/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/ds_4600G_eng.pdf  >  I have had on location for 2 1/2 years (powdered milk, not fresh, (1) 80 cups/ day, (2) 50 cups/ day) . The HLF's having more selections (adds French Vanilla latte & Capp., hot milk selections), drink sizes, basically better software. The HLF's press actual espresso's thru a brew group like Colibri, Krea, Virtu, Nat'l Voce, but also look higher end with stainless steel front. The account with the HLF's demanded these as they were familiar with the Colibri, but did not like the look and wanted the HLF because a division in another state had them and liked them.

The account does not necessarily see or experience the work needed to keep a given espresso machine operating well and consistently (though they can if they break down often). So my question is from the OCS operator's perspective:

1) Mechanically (boilers, motors, water pumps and grinder blades) do they hold up w/o needing said parts rebuilt/ replaced for say 50,000 vends or more?  

2) On higher wear parts like O-rings, lip seals, etc do they hold up for say 10,000 vends or more, or need more often replacement of wear parts.

3) Basically, are they thoughtfully designed for high volume with fairly hearty components that hold up under heavy use ( assuming proper regular 2 week cleanings). The Colibris, though a somewhat less complex machine, seem to be less 'work' mechanically to keep up and running than the HLFs.

4) Do the grinders (and rest of the brew process) handle somewhat to more oily beans w/o having beans hang up in hopper or funnels? The HLF's have to have almost NO oil on the beans which is a pain and really limits bean choice, which is a major draw back.

5) Must machines be available in U.S. and have decent support for parts and hopefully some degree of call in tech support. Vendors Exchange ≤ http://www.veii.com/ > used to be great w/ tech support, but in the past 6 months, I have not gotten any calls returned from the tech support dept. They do have very good parts supplies for the Colibri.

6) Aren't  and don't look like a vending machine.  National Voce is 72hx28wx 32d, so yeh, a vending machine. Did Nation (Crane) make a counter top w/ the Rev, Fr. Press, or just the 677 vending sized machine.

(OK, I'll stop now...  LOL)  Thanks,

Dave

Northern Calif.

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Thanks for another machine to look at. Looks to be a similar French press design w/ filter paper roll to carry grounds to waste bin. But with the filter roll 'under' the brew group, it seems any small or occasional over flow of brew chamber would spill onto the paper roll.

Still curious if other's have experience with de Jong's  Virtu or other ≈ $4,000 - $6,000 (U.S. $) bean to cup automated machines.

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/8/2017 at 10:25 PM, davekro said:

5) Must machines be available in U.S. and have decent support for parts and hopefully some degree of call in tech support. Vendors Exchange ≤ http://www.veii.com/ > used to be great w/ tech support, but in the past 6 months, I have not gotten any calls returned from the tech support dept. They do have very good parts supplies for the Colibri.

try calling the general support and not coffee support, one of us can get you the info or help you need

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  • 2 months later...

Look at Vendors Exchange's or Betson's websites for single cup brewers for vending.  Just because they want Flavia doesn't mean they get Flavia.  You need to educate yourself and then tell them what you will do for them.

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21 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

Look at Vendors Exchange's or Betson's websites for single cup brewers for vending.  Just because they want Flavia doesn't mean they get Flavia.  You need to educate yourself and then tell them what you will do for them.

Thanks

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Hi, I am very familiar with their products, in fact I have bought several innovation total lite's from Cafection and its my primary machine of choice.  It is the smaller version of the total 1 and has a smaller footprint. The machines are far superior than any other machine I've tried and tested.  The clients actually love what they can taste in every cup, also because they use more coffee per cup than the espresso machines. the great part about this is that you can regulate the exact setting of g/fl,oz per cup of coffee in order to recreate any brewing recipe. 

From a maintenance point of view, they are great. so far I only had one break down and they sent me the spare parts for free the next day. it was great and very easy to change to the new components. I must specify that the breakdown was due to the fact an employee of the dealership where I placed it, decided to move the machine with out calling us and something must have went wrong with the inlet valve.  with a regular cleaning of the machines, they always look sparkling clean like new and last a very long time. 

I've won every single account I've done a demo with the cafection machines, and people don't just think the coffee is just ok, they actually love it.

Their machines really turned my business around and it has been great ever since I decided to buy a brewer from them.

I know that in the US they have a major distributor who takes care of all their us client with white gloves. As for the technical questions, the parts last a very long time, the brewer 24k drinks, grinder 99k,  valves 9k, tank 59k drinks. The best part of all is that their online management software tells me precisely in how much time I'll need to replace the parts by sending me an email well in advance, so there is no down time and my machine is never out of service.

I hope this helps to clear your vision on their products.

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I too use a ton of the cafection total lites at very high volume accounts and these things hold up very well. All parts are interchangeable with most cafection models so if you ever come across an old Avalon grab it for the parts.

I'e become very versed at changing the components on them as I run over 50 of them across a few accounts. I have 1 total lite with over 60k vends in a very very short time period where all I've had to do is rebuild an outlet valve.

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