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Switching Boxes on a truck


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Hi all! 

 

I have a high-mileage box truck that is treating me quite well so far. I have put some time and money into the box, and really like it!

***Side note - I wish I didn't stress the AZ heat so much when I first got the truck, my box stays SUPER cool, SOOOOOOOOOO glad I didn't invest in a cooling system***Some future newbie like me will LOVE to find this post, because I remember it was very hard to get a "concrete" answer.***I can say "concretely" - paint your roof white, spend a couple hours insulating the roof, and your cans will stay quite cool, even in 120 degrees!!!****

 

However, my question is this:

I see good deals on machines but just don't have a way of moving them. Paying a mover $50 to drop a machine off at my house bugs me - not to mention having to coordinate a a pickup with a random buyer from CL or something like that!

I am thinking I would like to put a liftgate on my box so I am NEVER restricted! Only thing is, who knows how many more miles this truck has on it, and a liftgate is expensive... Does anyone know how costly it is to switch boxes? One day in a new truck I hope to keep my current box. 

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If you want to be able to move your own machines, look into a sturdy utility trailer with a ramp gate.  That's what I use about 99% of the time.  Probably cheaper than a lift gate and it's not in the way when you are on the route.  

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I am guessing it would be far cheaper and easier to buy a new box truck with a liftgate than trying to find a a good truck chasis, swap your box, then add a liftgate. I get where your coming from, once you get your box set the way you like, changing out sucks.

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That trailer is almost exactly what I use; yes the ramp gate is a bit steep, what we do is use 2x6's and plywood to reduce the slope and extend the ramp.  I would like to have something better but for now it works.  Another local vendor has a trailer with a lower deck and a custom gate to get the same effect.   He got rid of a lift gate truck because he felt the trailer was safer. 

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Buddy... I know you want straight up answers but I am also not very good at sugar coating things so I am just going to lay it out like it is.  I'm not trying to insult you, but I want you to be successful.

In many of your posts, you sound very cheap and not in a good way.  We all want a bargain.  In our business, every penny adds up REAL quick.  Raising prices 5 cents is HUGE.  As much as 4 cents out of that 5 cent increase could be all profit!!!  In our business, making money is everything and spending money sucks.  Here's the thing though... some things aren't worth your time.  Now, if you DID get a lift gate or a trailer, you COULD save yourself a lot of money, but there are major drawbacks.  Firstly, it is very difficult to move machines yourself.  It is very physically demanding and extremely stressful (at least for me).  You are in the business of stocking vending machines and making money off of the profits, not moving machines.  Again, you COULD save a lot of money if you moved them yourself, but what if you find that you hate doing it or the investment is way over your head?  Around here, to swap boxes costs a good 2 grand just for the labor!  The reason is that they need to secure the boxes.  It's not as simple as just pulling one off and putting the other on.  Adding a lift gate requires a lot of welding, and that will add up real quick too... not to mention the COST of another box or the COST of a lift gate itself.  You hate the idea of paying $50 to have a machine moved, but you're cool with investing thousands of dollars on a lift gate.. think about that.

I know you want to minimize your costs as much as possible, but moving machines sucks.  My gut feeling is that you feel like the mover is making big profits off of you for easy work when you feel that you could do the work yourself and save those profits.  That's a BAD kind of cheap.  If the mover is a professional, you are paying for a LOT with that $50.  My mover charges me $75-$100/hour and I have no intention of getting a lift gate or moving equipment any time soon.  He's worth it to me because I don't EVER have to worry about dropping a machine or getting myself hurt.  What happens to your business if you break your foot or bang up your hand real bad?  What do you do then?  Would you feel happy spending thousands of dollars on moving equipment if you were hurt and couldn't even use it?  What about the weeks and weeks that go by and you don't need to move anything but the lift gate is ALWAYS there and needs regular maintenance whether you use it or not?

Again, I know you want to save money... we all do, but MANY companies pay someone else to move their machines for good reason.  If the mover gets hurt, or if the mover's equipment breaks, I will still pay the same rate.  In the last 3 years, I have paid $3,230 in moving expenses.  That's right, over $1,000 each year in moving expenses and I have over 100 machines.  Do you know how many times I got hurt? Zero!!  I actually watched the mover trip on a curb one time and fall over, luckily the machine was on a stair-climber dolly and he was unhurt, but it could have been bad..  One other thing to keep in mind is that you need space on your truck for the machines, a means to strap them down (such as E track), a pallet jack and some other equipment, and at least one helper.  If you moved them yourself, you probably need to unload your truck to make enough space to maneuver.  Then, you need to drop everything you're doing to take the machines wherever they are going.  For me, I just have the mover pick them up and drop them off at my house while I can continue working.  I only need to be at the location to unlock the machine and make sure it gets installed/uninstalled without issue.

I don't want to see you invest thousands of dollars into something and then later go "Man, I wish someone had warned me about this..."  If you insist, I strongly recommend either getting a trailer or getting a truck that already has a lift gate.  Mind you, the completely flat lift gates will ALWAYS be in the way, meaning you will have to make them work EVERY time you service any account.  And the tuck-away models don't always fit under box trucks on van chassis.  You really need a large truck that is dock-height to use a tuck-away model or else you might bottom out.

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Buddy... I know you want straight up answers but I am also not very good at sugar coating things so I am just going to lay it out like it is.  I'm not trying to insult you, but I want you to be successful.

In many of your posts, you sound very cheap and not in a good way.  We all want a bargain.  In our business, every penny adds up REAL quick.  Raising prices 5 cents is HUGE.  As much as 4 cents out of that 5 cent increase could be all profit!!!  In our business, making money is everything and spending money sucks.  Here's the thing though... some things aren't worth your time.  Now, if you DID get a lift gate or a trailer, you COULD save yourself a lot of money, but there are major drawbacks.  Firstly, it is very difficult to move machines yourself.  It is very physically demanding and extremely stressful (at least for me).  You are in the business of stocking vending machines and making money off of the profits, not moving machines.  Again, you COULD save a lot of money if you moved them yourself, but what if you find that you hate doing it or the investment is way over your head?  Around here, to swap boxes costs a good 2 grand just for the labor!  The reason is that they need to secure the boxes.  It's not as simple as just pulling one off and putting the other on.  Adding a lift gate requires a lot of welding, and that will add up real quick too... not to mention the COST of another box or the COST of a lift gate itself.  You hate the idea of paying $50 to have a machine moved, but you're cool with investing thousands of dollars on a lift gate.. think about that.

I know you want to minimize your costs as much as possible, but moving machines sucks.  My gut feeling is that you feel like the mover is making big profits off of you for easy work when you feel that you could do the work yourself and save those profits.  That's a BAD kind of cheap.  If the mover is a professional, you are paying for a LOT with that $50.  My mover charges me $75-$100/hour and I have no intention of getting a lift gate or moving equipment any time soon.  He's worth it to me because I don't EVER have to worry about dropping a machine or getting myself hurt.  What happens to your business if you break your foot or bang up your hand real bad?  What do you do then?  Would you feel happy spending thousands of dollars on moving equipment if you were hurt and couldn't even use it?  What about the weeks and weeks that go by and you don't need to move anything but the lift gate is ALWAYS there and needs regular maintenance whether you use it or not?

Again, I know you want to save money... we all do, but MANY companies pay someone else to move their machines for good reason.  If the mover gets hurt, or if the mover's equipment breaks, I will still pay the same rate.  In the last 3 years, I have paid $3,230 in moving expenses.  That's right, over $1,000 each year in moving expenses and I have over 100 machines.  Do you know how many times I got hurt? Zero!!  I actually watched the mover trip on a curb one time and fall over, luckily the machine was on a stair-climber dolly and he was unhurt, but it could have been bad..  One other thing to keep in mind is that you need space on your truck for the machines, a means to strap them down (such as E track), a pallet jack and some other equipment, and at least one helper.  If you moved them yourself, you probably need to unload your truck to make enough space to maneuver.  Then, you need to drop everything you're doing to take the machines wherever they are going.  For me, I just have the mover pick them up and drop them off at my house while I can continue working.  I only need to be at the location to unlock the machine and make sure it gets installed/uninstalled without issue.

I don't want to see you invest thousands of dollars into something and then later go "Man, I wish someone had warned me about this..."  If you insist, I strongly recommend either getting a trailer or getting a truck that already has a lift gate.  Mind you, the completely flat lift gates will ALWAYS be in the way, meaning you will have to make them work EVERY time you service any account.  And the tuck-away models don't always fit under box trucks on van chassis.  You really need a large truck that is dock-height to use a tuck-away model or else you might bottom out.


Some good insight here.

Freedom to buy a good deal without a location for it is what I'm after. It's not about being cheap, but about the ability to not rely on ANYONE else.

Also, don't take this the wrong way but your gut feeling about how much I think the mover is making is wrong. I think about what they do often - practically every time I need a machine moved, it's not a get-rich profession.

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My thoughts on machine movers...:

Hourly wage: worth minimum $20-$25
Experience doing so: 10% increase
The fact that there are very few people who do this professionally : 10% increase
Gas: Worth 10% increase
Car and GenLiab. Insurance: Worth 10% increase
Health risk: Worth 10% increase
Dealing with random BS: 10% increase
Having equipment: 10% increase

At the end of the day, a minimum of $50/per machine moved (max 1 hour) seems very fair.... Especially considering the health risk..

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That's fine.  I'm not upset about being wrong.  I just feel the need to lay it out there.  You're obviously passionate about what you do.  It may be because you like vending or it may be because you love the challenge of operating a business.  I personally find operating a business to be fun in general, but vending is definitely something that I do enjoy even as just a route driver.  Having the passion you have now makes me want to provide you any insight I can, even if it is based off of incorrect assumptions of mine.  I know what you mean about getting good deals on craigslist.  I guess the problem is that once you get big enough, you don't really have the time to go pick those machines up.  Around here, half of the machines on craigslist are stolen Pepsi assets, while the other half are old junkers.  I don't feel like I have the time to go looking for machines even if I had a lift gate.  But hey, if you prove me wrong and you buy a lift gate and start making big money, then more power to you!  

Are you the type of person that starts the day early and wants to work all day?  I'm definitely not.  I have just begun to start every morning around 8am out of necessity.  Starting any later and I get behind.  I could start earlier, but I don't want to.  I like being home with my family.

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Both movers made it seem as though their commercial auto insurance was very high because they are movers.  I don't remember for sure, but I believe I was told that between commercial auto insurance, general liability, and taxes, it was somewhere in the tens of thousands each year.

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Both movers made it seem as though their commercial auto insurance was very high because they are movers.  I don't remember for sure, but I believe I was told that between commercial auto insurance, general liability, and taxes, it was somewhere in the tens of thousands each year.


I believe it. I will say that I have decided to pay normal asking price to move the machine mentioned in one of my posts 5 feet. It's worth almost that, and even if it's not I'd rather give the mover some "gravy" and establish a good relationship!

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That's fine.  I'm not upset about being wrong.  I just feel the need to lay it out there.  You're obviously passionate about what you do.  It may be because you like vending or it may be because you love the challenge of operating a business.  I personally find operating a business to be fun in general, but vending is definitely something that I do enjoy even as just a route driver.  Having the passion you have now makes me want to provide you any insight I can, even if it is based off of incorrect assumptions of mine.  I know what you mean about getting good deals on craigslist.  I guess the problem is that once you get big enough, you don't really have the time to go pick those machines up.  Around here, half of the machines on craigslist are stolen Pepsi assets, while the other half are old junkers.  I don't feel like I have the time to go looking for machines even if I had a lift gate.  But hey, if you prove me wrong and you buy a lift gate and start making big money, then more power to you!  

Are you the type of person that starts the day early and wants to work all day?  I'm definitely not.  I have just begun to start every morning around 8am out of necessity.  Starting any later and I get behind.  I could start earlier, but I don't want to.  I like being home with my family.


Your insight is awesome and I would be behind without people like you. You should practically charge a fee for some of the advice yourself and other veterans give on here

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Lol.  To some people, I am just an opinionated golpher.  I love giving my 2 cents!  Trust me though... even with 7 years in business and 11 years in the industry, I still have a lot to learn.

 

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That trailer is almost exactly what I use; yes the ramp gate is a bit steep, what we do is use 2x6's and plywood to reduce the slope and extend the ramp.  I would like to have something better but for now it works.  Another local vendor has a trailer with a lower deck and a custom gate to get the same effect.   He got rid of a lift gate truck because he felt the trailer was safer. 


An option would be to add an electric winch to the front. You can get a 2500lb with wireless remote from harbor freight for under $100. Be sure to get the separate roller fair lead. I have one mounted in my box to pull machines off the liftgate and into truck. It would work great for a trailer. It also provides safety from tip over as you slide it off the trailer.

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Looks like you decided on using the mover. Probably a wise choice. I bought my Isuzu NPR 14ft box with a tuck away liftgate already on it. I like it but there are still issues. The back is stomach to chest high, depending on your height. This means you have to climb up in it every time. The tuck away isn't truly automatic. After you lower it you have to manually flip the deck down, then flip down the deck extender. BTW that deck is heavy. There is also a steep 2 inch lip you have to maneuver the machine over. A trailer is much easier to load and unload, but hauling a trailer through the city sucks and reversing is a nightmare. Good luck whichever way you go.

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7 hours ago, AngryChris said:

Lol.  To some people, I am just an opinionated golpher.  I love giving my 2 cents!  Trust me though... even with 7 years in business and 11 years in the industry, I still have a lot to learn.

 

Where do you buy machines, craigslist  is not at all reliable source.

 

My two cents on topic ,moving machines is best reserved for professional movers. These machines are too heavy and it is too risky to take a chance.

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4 hours ago, Corvus Corax said:


An option would be to add an electric winch to the front. You can get a 2500lb with wireless remote from harbor freight for under $100. Be sure to get the separate roller fair lead. I have one mounted in my box to pull machines off the liftgate and into truck. It would work great for a trailer. It also provides safety from tip over as you slide it off the trailer.

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This is almost exactly what I did. Winch mounted to front of trailer on a receiver hitch. We load the heaviest machine first and then load the lightest by hand or put the first one in the front corner of the trailer and use the winch to pull the second up or let it down just as we did with the first one. Have less than $1500 invested in the trailer and it works great. I would rather do it this way than to use a lift gate any day. 

 

Plus now I have a trailer for when I need to move other things that won't fit in my pickup. 

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This is almost exactly what I did. Winch mounted to front of trailer on a receiver hitch. We load the heaviest machine first and then load the lightest by hand or put the first one in the front corner of the trailer and use the winch to pull the second up or let it down just as we did with the first one. Have less than $1500 invested in the trailer and it works great. I would rather do it this way than to use a lift gate any day. 

 

Plus now I have a trailer for when I need to move other things that won't fit in my pickup. 


Liftgates can be scary, they seem super smooth with light weight, but put 5-600lbs of machines on it, and they shake and kick. I strap them and run the winch to the strap while I lower and raise them.

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3 minutes ago, Corvus Corax said:


Liftgates can be scary, they seem super smooth with light weight, but put 5-600lbs of machines on it, and they shake and kick. I strap them and run the winch to the strap while I lower and raise them.

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I worked with liftgates daily for 21 years at my previous job, so I know how they can be. Most are rated new for 2500 pounds, but after a few years you're lucky if you can put 1200 on them safely. If you have anything taller than a few feet, it gets really unstable and tricky

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I worked with liftgates daily for 21 years at my previous job, so I know how they can be. Most are rated new for 2500 pounds, but after a few years you're lucky if you can put 1200 on them safely. If you have anything taller than a few feet, it gets really unstable and tricky


I moved a DN5000 (about the size of a bevmax 4) I am almost sure I pooed a little.

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8 hours ago, Jchunn28 said:

This is almost exactly what I did. Winch mounted to front of trailer on a receiver hitch. We load the heaviest machine first and then load the lightest by hand or put the first one in the front corner of the trailer and use the winch to pull the second up or let it down just as we did with the first one. Have less than $1500 invested in the trailer and it works great. I would rather do it this way than to use a lift gate any day. 

 

Plus now I have a trailer for when I need to move other things that won't fit in my pickup. 

I already have the trailer, and LOVE the winch idea for safety and practicality! You must use an extended ramp too? I could get on board with using a winch to bring the machine up safely! And as a safety when bringing it down! 

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I've moved three drink machines (one of which was a Royal 804-9) with a pick-up truck and trailer like the one in your picture.  Bring a strong friend, ratchet ties, and an appliance dolly with you and it is very doable.  I am picking up my 4th drink machine on Wednesday this way.  And I've gotten 3 of my machines on Craigslist, and one on Ebay.  You can get great deals from Craigslist, but you need to be prepared to do some repairs.  So far, I've had to replace a cooling deck, bill acceptor, coin acceptor, trim, buttons, the vend motor, ballasts, light bulbs, and other small assorted parts.  Yes, the money adds up but you gain invaluable insight when you do the repairs yourself.  From the repairs I've done, I know what to look for when purchasing machines and I know how much it will cost to fix.  That knowledge helps establish the price you are willing to pay for a machine.  

I have been able to do all repairs on my machines myself without once calling a repair service.  This forum has been a big help to me being able to service my machines.  If you're in the business for the long haul...don't be afraid to get your hands dirty...whether you are moving a machine or doing your own repairs.  Remember, knowledge is power.

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42 minutes ago, darkinthepark said:

the money adds up but you gain invaluable insight when you do the repairs yourself.

That's some great advice. Have you had to invest in tools as well, or has everything been fairly standard?

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26 minutes ago, cwb said:

That's some great advice. Have you had to invest in tools as well, or has everything been fairly standard?

No investment in tools...just the parts.  All my drink machines are Royal Vendors, and the parts were readily available from the company.  

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