PnutGallery Co. Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 It seems a lot of you guys have lost some good locations from time to time. Do you ever really find out why? What are your ideas why you may lose them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profits Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Reasons could be as many as you could possibly imagine: -Owner thinks he's being cheated. -Owner thinks a competing vendor's machines will do better than yours. -Owner likes a competing vendor better than he likes you. -Competing vendor offers 100% commission. -Owner buys his own machines. -Owner doesn't like you. -Owner doesn't like having machines. -Owner doesn't like ugly 20+ year old machines. -Your machines are causing too much of a mess. -You own Vendstar machines, and the owner thinks Vendstar machines look like @ss. -You own Vendstar machines, and the maximum vend amount is two Skittles. -Change of management and they don't like your machines. -Change of district manager and they don't think your machines comply with corporate vision. -Bouncy balls are landing in the salad. -Your machines are misvending, and the location owner is tired of handing out quarters. -The location owner doesn't like the products you vend. -The location owner thinks your products are a liability to him. The sky is the limit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEREMYTINA Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 The only locations I have ever lost in my 2 1/2 yrs vending has been locations closing and one jiffy lube location that I removed my Vendstar out of because they were cheating it and replaced with a Seaga Tri-vend they couldn't figure out how to rip-off so they gave me da boot. (He blamed it on Corp. but I know better) In the last year I have lost only machines that locators have found. Of the ten or twelve I've lost, I would say most of them were at the 30 day mark. I think this may be beacuse the locations are told to just try one out for a month or so. Most of the time they stick though. In a lot of places, I think they just get used to the machines being there and let em ride. I have had machines get kicked because of location owners buying their own machines as well. I think it's really a matter of building a repoire with the location, and then you're good for as long as you want to be there in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Only location I have lost went out of business. I have pulled a few because of poor performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will.vend Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 the last 2 locations I lost were laundromats, the first one has a pool table and the kids kept sticking the empty caps in the pockets, it cost them money to have them removed and the 2nd one was just bad timing on my part, the (too good to get her hands dirty owner) was mopping when I showed up to service, she said Im tired of gum on the floor and picking up empty caps so just remove the machines. But, I have said before when I lose a location it motivates me to find more, I place them all along but when I lose one it doesnt set well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nepavend Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 You will hear and deal with all kinds of excuses/reasons for losing a location. The big ones: -Business goes under -Change of owner/manager The middle ones: 1 Alleged misvends (sometimes customers lie, dont know what they are doing) 2 Another vendor offers more commission or "signon" bonus 3 Complaints about commission/counting/etc. (Ironically enough, the crap spots complain the most) 4-Complaints about wanting a bigger machine when they don't deserve one ($15 spot wants a 7-way and spiral) 5-Owners kids put all the money in (I get that one quite a bit) 6-Bad performance (Have to know when to fold em, hopefully before #3 or #7 happen) 7-Risk of theft becomes too great 8-Too much mess (can happen more with candy, but toys/gum can cause mess too) The just plain old stupid ones: 1 Manager gives permission to upgrade to rack, then becomes Owner. Owner asks for a bill when servicing and is in awe about getting a commission, then calls two days later to kick me out - YES it did happen to me, two weeks ago! Still trying to figure out where that owners head is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 To speak in general terms, here are some major categories of evictions. Change! Changes in ownership or management. The new people just don’t want it. Change in physical location (moving or remodeling). Machine will no longer fit in with the new décor. New corporate polices disallow them. Problems! Machines malfunction constantly. Mess on the floor. Ants and other nasty bugs. Kids throwing balls and sticky stuff. People spitting gum on the sidewalk. Cashier and waitresses also being disturbed for change. Bad Service! Vendor (you!) does not reply in a timely manner. Competitors not replying and abandoning their machine (usually a vendstar or uturn). One bad apple can get everyone booted. Owner Misconceptions! Owner thinks machines are a big cash cow and any caveman can do this. Vendor (you!) is making too much money. Wants own machine or wants outrageous commission. Has relatives getting into vending and will do a better job than you. Charity Issues! Owner thinks charity is a scam. Thinks donation is too small. Simply can not accept that a machine is taking up space and is not paying any rent – essentially a freeloader in their mind. New management rejects the charity. To digress a bit... My own experience is that charity machines in the public areas of the business are more vulnerable to evictions especially in corporate chains or when the management changes. The larger the charity machine, (usually) the higher probability of eviction. So an 8-select Uturn monstrosity is usually at more risk than a single head machine in terms of getting kicked out. Which is why IMO a single head gumball is probably best suited for a larger charity route and will "adapt" to changes better. To tell just one story… About 4 years ago I lost a very profitable chain of banks. Had 9 locations that did 3 to 4 times the “average” location. So we are talking 27 to 36 average locations needed to replace that revenue. Corporate auditors and new policies nixed all the machines. Well maybe I “deserved” it! After all, I had a large charity machine in a public lobby of a corporation and no relationship with the management! That machine was just begging to get booted! That event made me rethink the whole commission versus charity situation and eventually a new business model. Now every region of the country will be different, but I have had fewer evictions with commission spots and “low-key” charity spots (like break rooms and industrial). But it’s possible that charity spots may last longer in rural and smaller towns rather than in the larger metro areas. Not to start another charity versus commission debate, but I think there is a significant correlation between charity-versus-commission and evictions-versus-longevity. Of course let's not forget the number one reason an owner will not let you in or let you stay in - "we have no more room"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGranger Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I lost a brand new Chinese restaurant today. In fact, I just got the location today as well. I went in with charity machines after seeing the "Grand Opening" sign out front. They agreed and I could put the machines in. But the owner asked how much commission he'd get. I explained that it was for charity and there wasn't commission involved, he still agreed. And then I made my mistake. The machines were in but I thought I saw an opportunity to expand in my first day. I paused and said IF he wanted commission then I could bring in a rack (they have a huge space). He was interested but then had second thoughts. Then asked for 50% of net, which wouldn't work for me. I offered 20% to start. So he just walked off and had someone else tell me that he's not interested anymore. Anyone lose a spot faster than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I lost my very first location (Oct 2000) after just 10 minutes. A tattoo parlor. When I walked in, I got a strange look and could sense that the owner just really did not like me. As I was rearranging the van, he came back out and said he read the fine print on the charity label and wanted the machine removed since he wanted every penny to go to the charity. The first and only time that has ever happened in over 10 years. Pretty weird (and potentially discouraging) experience for the very first location. But who really knows what his real problem was. Maybe he was repulsed by a half bald albino looking guy with no art work on his skin. Just as I was repulsed by his excessive tattoos and body piercing (what's up with that, anyhow). Kind of like Mayberry meeting Heavy Metal! No harm done really. I drive by there all the time and think about that day. That business is long gone and that strip mall is really getting run down with vacant shops and should really be bull-dosed soon. But the albino lives on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I lost a brand new Chinese restaurant today. In fact, I just got the location today as well. I went in with charity machines after seeing the "Grand Opening" sign out front. They agreed and I could put the machines in. But the owner asked how much commission he'd get. I explained that it was for charity and there wasn't commission involved, he still agreed. And then I made my mistake. The machines were in but I thought I saw an opportunity to expand in my first day. I paused and said IF he wanted commission then I could bring in a rack (they have a huge space). He was interested but then had second thoughts. Then asked for 50% of net, which wouldn't work for me. I offered 20% to start. So he just walked off and had someone else tell me that he's not interested anymore. Anyone lose a spot faster than that? Well IMO… Before walking into a location, it’s best to determine what type of pitch (charity or commission) is best suited. Now I like commission for family restaurants and charity for most adult (non-sports) dining establishments. After walking through the door, it’s best to not change the pitch mid-stream. Doing so may cause the owner to think you are trying to pull a fast one and may feel manipulated and will loose trust in you. This owner clearly thought you were up to something when you changed your story so quickly. My experience is that most first generation Asian’s do not support bulk charity vending (but maybe an honor box at best) and will usually demand a cut. So I always wear my commission hat when entering a Chinese restaurant. Now in the case of starting out with a charity, I would wait 6 months to get to know the establishment before pitching a commission rack upgrade. Unless you are a huge charity vendor or mega-rack commission vendor, most other bulk vendors "in the middle" with have to develop a knack for this charity-commission flip-flop. I still am refining this myself and don’t always get it right the first time either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Good posts Jax, maybe you should apply the war paint and get you some fake ear rings the next time you pursuit a Tattoo Parlor...lol Don't forget the fake spiked hair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGranger Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Unless you are a huge charity vendor or mega-rack commission vendor, most other bulk vendors "in the middle" with have to develop a knack for this charity-commission flip-flop. I still am refining this myself and don’t always get it right the first time either. You're totally right. I should have stuck with the charity since it was already in. But I saw the dollar signs in his eyes and thought I might be able to swing a rack. In the end it was a bad played hand. I am not very experienced in locating myself, but feel more comfortable with charity. Doing a good deed is easier for me to sell than trying to get them on commissions. I've had a few people walk when they hear how much commission could be. They are thinking hundreds a month and if you give a real estimate they say "That's all?!" I started using charity because I'd gotten so many responses like that. I'd be at home at the tattoo shop. I may have to try some of those soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profits Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 But the owner asked how much commission he'd get. I explained that it was for charity and there wasn't commission involved, he still agreed. I should have stuck with the charity since it was already in. MrGranger... you've been in business for a long time. The dialogue you had with the owner makes me think you don't regularly interact with very many customers. He gave you a clear-cut opportunity to win his support, and you denied him. When the customer says "Can I have fries with that?" What is the right answer? Hint: You give the customer what the customer wants. He told you he didn't want a charity machine. He told you what he wanted to hear. All you have to do is listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGranger Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 MrGranger... you've been in business for a long time. The dialogue you had with the owner makes me think you don't regularly interact with very many customers. He gave you a clear-cut opportunity to win his support, and you denied him. When the customer says "Can I have fries with that?" What is the right answer? Hint: You give the customer what the customer wants. He told you he didn't want a charity machine. He told you what he wanted to hear. All you have to do is listen. There was a language barrier, which was part of the problem. He didn't speak English at all and had someone translate. But he agreed to the charity first, then asked about commission. I did exactly what you suggest. When I offered the "fries" that is when he said no and kicked out the charity. I'd have done better saying "no fries", leaving the charity machine and then speaking to him about the commission machine later on. When I started negotiating the commission machine is when it went to hell. Your quotes are misleading because it makes it seem that I lost the location because I only agree to charity. I think you missed the point that I lost it when I offered a commission machine instead. I'll be speaking to thousands of customers this coming weekend. That's a good number and I'd bet you'd even think it's quite a few. But I usually sell to those who already have a passing interest in what I sell. Locating means that you've got to sell to people with no interest in vending machines at all. I give props to those of you who are good at selling to those who don't want anything to do with what you are selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profits Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Your quotes are misleading because it makes it seem that I lost the location because I only agree to charity. I think you missed the point that I lost it when I offered a commission machine instead. You did previously say you told him it was a charity machine after he asked about commission. I'd imagine that's where you lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGranger Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 DIN DING DING....I think we have a winner! I wasn't clear then, but the machine that was sitting there was a charity machine with stickers. I said that even after asking about the commission he had agreed and let me put the charity machine in. Let me try to be more clear, so after it was there he asked about what commission he'd get (all spoken through the translator). I said that it was charity and there wouldn't be commission on that machine right there. He said fine and let the machines stay. So the charity machines were in, he was fine with no commission for those. It's at that point that I brought up the "fries" and offered to bring in a commission machines. I was thinking bigger, possibly expanding the double head into a 2" J-Stand or Rack. I didn't think it would hurt to ask. He asked through the translator if he could get a %60 to my 40%, then a 50% of commission. He actually brought that down 10% on his own, I didn't say a thing yet. Then I explained that a 50% commission would be hard for me to pull off, and it's usually 20%. But we could work a deal and I asked what he wanted. I have a mix of toys that I directly imported for Asia that are very popular so I thought he might like those. I explained that to the translator but that's when he left. I got the rest from the translator. Maybe that's a bit more clear. Basically the charity was in and it wasn't until I agreed that I could do a commission machine that things went south. I would have done better to follow Jax advice and just stuck with the charity which is what I had sold him on in the first place. My initial point was just that I lost the spot very quickly, but it could have taken me slightly longer than Jax's tattoo joint. Though if you give me time off for the added translating then maybe we'd be even. No worries though as the language barrier might be too much if other issues came up. He really didn't speak any English so it would be hard for me if there were issues later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainor5251 Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 If I sell a location on a charity machine I stick with that for a couple of cycles before pitching commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dude Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 What's the business model for offering 100% commission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quotealex Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 What's the business model for offering 100% commission It is a great way to acquire new location while eliminating the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havending Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Well to dive into the why I have lost locations over the past 16 years I will need another sheet of paper lol. But I am big on offering an upfront "payment" or "sign on bonus" to boot another vendor. Many see this as unfair or cheating the other guy. But I have worked very hard to build a very profitable company and if the numbers work for me I will do it. And if done right works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Just lost a 2-head charity pizza joint a few days ago. Why? Kids were throwing the super balls around and one ball even ended up in the oven! I joked that he could offer a new carry out special with pepperoni and melted super balls. He did not think that was very funny! And we could not do any candy or gum since this place opens at 4pm and has no A/C on during the day. He also told me the kids were coming in from next store and bugging customers and employees for quarters. Many were unsupervised and a bit out of control. He wanted nothing to do with a rack commission either. He was just aggravated with the kids and wanted the machine out. He said even his own kids were bugging him for quarters all the time! Maybe we should start a special thread were we can post and vent about lost locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEREMYTINA Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Just lost a 2-head charity pizza joint a few days ago. Why? Kids were throwing the super balls around and one ball even ended up in the oven! I joked that he could offer a new carry out special with pepperoni and melted super balls. He did not think that was very funny! And we could not do any candy or gum since this place opens at 4pm and has no A/C on during the day. He also told me the kids were coming in from next store and bugging customers and employees for quarters. Many were unsupervised and a bit out of control. He wanted nothing to do with a rack commission either. He was just aggravated with the kids and wanted the machine out. He said even his own kids were bugging him for quarters all the time! Maybe we should start a special thread were we can post and vent about lost locations. We could even title it.."The one that got away" or if you're feeling a bit more poetic: "parting is such sweet sorrow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEREMYTINA Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I wasn't clear then, but the machine that was sitting there was a charity machine with stickers. I said that even after asking about the commission he had agreed and let me put the charity machine in. Let me try to be more clear, so after it was there he asked about what commission he'd get (all spoken through the translator). I said that it was charity and there wouldn't be commission on that machine right there. He said fine and let the machines stay. So the charity machines were in, he was fine with no commission for those. It's at that point that I brought up the "fries" and offered to bring in a commission machines. I was thinking bigger, possibly expanding the double head into a 2" J-Stand or Rack. I didn't think it would hurt to ask. He asked through the translator if he could get a %60 to my 40%, then a 50% of commission. He actually brought that down 10% on his own, I didn't say a thing yet. Then I explained that a 50% commission would be hard for me to pull off, and it's usually 20%. But we could work a deal and I asked what he wanted. I have a mix of toys that I directly imported for Asia that are very popular so I thought he might like those. I explained that to the translator but that's when he left. I got the rest from the translator. Maybe that's a bit more clear. Basically the charity was in and it wasn't until I agreed that I could do a commission machine that things went south. I would have done better to follow Jax advice and just stuck with the charity which is what I had sold him on in the first place. My initial point was just that I lost the spot very quickly, but it could have taken me slightly longer than Jax's tattoo joint. Though if you give me time off for the added translating then maybe we'd be even. No worries though as the language barrier might be too much if other issues came up. He really didn't speak any English so it would be hard for me if there were issues later on. 50% of net is a fair commission in my opinion. You get 100% of the product paid for, and split the profit. I would have jumped at that in a heartbeat. I would have come back the next day with a toy rack and moved right on in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGranger Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 50% of net is a fair commission in my opinion. You get 100% of the product paid for, and split the profit. I would have jumped at that in a heartbeat. I would have come back the next day with a toy rack and moved right on in. I'd also do 50% of net, but can't do 50% of gross. I'm sure language barrier was a major problem in that case. No worries as I've already got a new location for that machine. How do those that do the net % build the trust so that owners trust what you give them. If they see you pull out $10 from a machine and you give them $2 then do they ask what is happening with the rest of the $? Not everyone is very trusting, especially when money is involved. Do you show them your books? Never mind...most of this is answered in the hijacked thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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