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About FlyGuy

  • Rank
    Übermensch

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  • State
    Midwest
  • Vending Type
    Other
  • Vending Since
    2049

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  1. Research shows 9 out of 10 vendors exaggerate about their rates of locating success for their machines/boxes Guys, aiming for 50% or better is nearly impossible unless it's some everyone-knows-everyone tiny hick town or something. Even 1 in 5 of all stores you go into is aiming quite high in many places. I agree with hoping for success each and every time, but don't get discouraged by unrealistic expectations. Every market is different. ...I would honestly say I'm between about 1 out of 5 or 1 out of 7 all time for ones where I even have a chance. That "have a chance" is not including the ones where I ask about snacks and find out they have a vending machine, they have another snack box company already, owners buy free snacks for the break room and/or lobby (common with financial offices), or their store/corporate policy doesn't allow it. I suppose nail shops that can't speak English don't really offer any hope either... and there are many of those, lol. If you include all places, those places where I had zero chance or a legit chance, then it is probably closer to 1 in 10 of all businesses I walk into that I manage to place a box. Before you simply say "what a loser," realize that I am not bad at sales... I'm far above average with people skills and I'm a relatively good looking and young guy (like it or not, that helps). My boxes are clean looking, marketing materials are sharp, and service is good. My full time job is customer service... selling a service, actually. It's just that snack boxes, or any business, is usually VERY saturated in any major metro area (and I'm providing honest stats). I imagine I would be doing much better in rural areas (but I'd be driving much more and probably selling fewer snacks per box). I suppose it is a big fish in a small pond... versus being a variable size fish in a lake or ocean situation. There are pros and cons to each. As was said, it is highly variable, though... some days, I might be 3/11 and other days 1/19 or even 0/22. No joke. Those are all real days this year. I just checked my locating log stats so far this year for the heck of it, and I'm 7/86 in 2019... 8.1% success. I don't feel like checking my notes and counting them up, but I figure that a quarter of those cold calls I had no chance for reasons mentioned, but that is still only 10.8% success (7/65) if you drop those off. Remember, I'm just part time (one day per week with roughly 1hr swapping boxes and 2hrs locating new)… those %s would change a lot if I do good next time out or re-visit prior ones and they decide to accept a box. From those trips this year, I still have a dozen or more leads to follow up on when I have time or go back to that street (employee liked it but I'd need to email or call decision maker, need to stop back since store was too busy at the time, manager was on vaca or not working that day, manager supposedly asking corporate, etc etc). Most of those kernels never pop into popcorn, but a few occasionally do... worth emailing or stopping back in when you're nearby. Where I am, there are at least three competing snack box companies I've run into that also do snack boxes very similar to mine. I think one is full line vending that also does snack boxes, but I don't care... just minding my own business. Some shops actually have multiple boxes (I won't play that game). A lot of places say to me "snack box is back there, but your co-worker just brought a new one yesterday" when they see me walk in... saves me time, I guess. Other places reject me since they tried it in the past with other snack services and got burned for whatever reason... I try to ask them what their dissatisfaction was and offer to do better, but the bridge is typically burnt long ago. I've even found banks or shops that literally opened a month before I visited and they already have a box company that beat me to it. It is pretty competitive. I guess the good side is that the majority of the area businesses are familiar with how snack boxes work... saves me some time explaining. Corporate places (cell phone shops, urgent care centers, banks, oil change shops, etc) are the toughest because the decision maker is often someone in a HR office halfway across the city, state, or even the country. Even if the first front desk person you see and that store's manager is interested, they typically cop out since they don't want to go through the trouble of asking corporate for approval... or corporate says no. Medical or dental or vet places are also very tough since the doc is usually the owner, and even if they're not busy, they often just say no when the front desk girl goes back to ask them since they want to avoid coming up front and talking for a minute. It is still worth trying everywhere, though. I find that I do the best with local businesses or franchised shops (where the manager/owner is decision maker and might even be sitting up front), but they are not always high volume places. These are your salons, credit unions, shops, shared tax/insurance/law/etc offices, auto and manufacturing, etc etc. You never know until you try. I will give any place a chance and treat them well unless they violate my theft rate % policy. My point is simply that you can get this to work well anywhere if you work at it and have a good product + service. I could have easily given up once I kept running into competition, but I have built up to around 50 boxes, and it is a good, fun side job. I just wanted to put this out there so any new reader on the forum starting snack or mint/lollipop boxes doesn't get discouraged if their area is in a busy city with a lot of competition and dead-end corporate businesses also. If I ever retire or move to somewhere more rural, I'd imagine I might get success placing 1 in 5 and having far fewer locations where placing would be impossible. If any of you are in that type of location, count your blessings. Either way, it's a fun side hustle. GL
  2. He had some a month or two ago when I inquired... maybe half that many boxes. I was gonna buy them, but he wanted a pre-paid mail label or something I didn't understand how to do... maybe you do? Try PM'ing him
  3. Update with prototype plastic snack box is pictured below. The plastic one fits 60 snacks: 38 dollar items (2 cheez it, 4 cookies, 15 candy, 5 crackers, 5 trail mix, 3 fruit snack, 2 oat bars, 1 trail mix bar, 2 nutri grain) and 22 half dollar ones (4 reeses single, 4 fun size candy, 6 slim jim, 6 peanuts, 2 gum). I tried to keep it as close as possible to my standard cardboard box that you can see in the left side of last attached pic (73 items: 50 dollar 23 half dollar). I can post more pics of the plastic ones when I put logos and cash area cover onto it (cash area will be two squares in middle, covered with a cardboard logo piece approx. 4x6in), but for now, you get the jist of things. I hope not to change over any locations since the plastic boxes are more expensive. They will just be an alternative for any new locations that have that dust/mice objection. No charity affiliation for me; I find it phony and unnecessary... good product and service sells itself in my experience. Box logo cards would go on the outside (clear lid) of the plastic box and on the cardboard piece that will be cash slot/cover, which would be the two square middle sections.
  4. There is a wealth of info on here if you search around and read threads. You can read here, Google around, maybe read a book or two (Thomason's Truth About Vending is my fav), and then decide what makes sense to you. Like anything, you will do some learning by experience... trial and error. Snack boxes and charity lollipop/mint boxes are two different animals. You want to be specific when asking questions. Vending is a numbers game, though... no doubt about that. I would start with as many boxes as you can get into decent locations. Put the boxes anywhere reasonably busy that wants them. You never know until you try. My basic business model that I've developed in the past couple years is posted here, but that's just me... you will want to gather ideas and develop your own game plan: GL and welcome!
  5. For sure. It's very possible that this ends up being more trouble than it is worth. That is why I was asking, though. The only snack place trying this which I'd run across is the one in the FB link in orig post. I actually don't do chips. I do a few Veg Straws and Cheez-It and Cracker Jack sometimes, but no chips. Veggie straws sell well and don't cost much, but they take up massive space in the box. Avoiding chips lets me have less expired snacks since they have poor shelf life relative to most snacks (I'm part time with just one route day weekly and relatively few locations), avoids grease marks on my boxes, and keeps the box healthier overall from a locating standpoint. The main reason for no chips is much less space in my house and car and the snack boxes... no chips lets me pack 70-75 snacks in a Cameron box fairly easily. The Menards link was awesome, thanks! I forgot about them since relatively few in my area. They have the same boxes as Lowes but with different branding (Stanley instead of TuffBox, pic attached), and I was able to get a few for $8.50 each out the door after rebate. Still over double what a Cameron white box costs, but maybe it will get my snacks to a few accounts I couldn't get otherwise. That might be worth it, especially if those accounts are right near my house and/or other locations. They are 17x13x3.5in plastic trays, so we will see how it works. I will post a pic of a loaded up plastic box with logos and cash box and snacks when I get a chance. Definitely a good point about asking accounts to put the snack box in a cabinet or fridge. If any of mine ever have a mouse problem or mention a past problem, I will probably spin that idea... even if I give them a plastic one. The candy bars and other snacks will be laid down and stacked, so I will see how many I can fit. I'm sure it won't be 70+ snacks like my regular boxes, but I will report back once I find out. I'm all about the cardboard boxes and keeping it simple and effective, but I just am trying to solve one of the few shortcomings I've ever found with cardboard boxes. Between the increased box cost and decreased size, it may or may not pan out. Don't know until ya try, I guess
  6. Maybe I missed it in all the pages here, but what is a typical day/week schedule for you... Box swaps, locating, accounting, restocking, buying, etc? I'm sure you've dialed in what works for you.
  7. No, I'm not talking about the acrylic lollipop ones... I'm looking for real plastic snack boxes with a snap lid. I didn't find it in a search at all. This would be only for semi-outdoor locations, such as open-air mechanic shops, workshops, warehouses, or other industrial places... and any places where mouse issues might be a problem in warm weather. Sorta like this idea: https://www.facebook.com/pg/honorsnack/services/ I never really considered this concept before since the box cost would be more and I do fine with my simple cardboard boxes, but one biz owner I marketed to recently mentioned mice as an issue with a past vending service they'd tried and cancelled. I had never run into this issue in hundreds and hundreds of location calls (I do all my own box placements). ...The plastic snack box would need a cash box (and I hate the idea of a separate cash box beside it), so I was thinking to use one of its inner compartments, probably center, for the cash slot and my logo (which means even less space for snacks, though). These two links below (and pic attached) would be the best potential I've found with limited scanning, and they're still 3-4x as costly as a regular cardboard small snack box. My thinking is that the less frills (clasp parts, hinges, etc) the better... less stuff to break. I might check ebay or alibaba or amazon, but I don't like to buy these kind of things sight unseen... and I think shipping might negate any savings buying online could give. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tough-Box-Large-Sorter-16-Compartment-Plastic-Small-Parts-Organizer/1000365905 https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-15-Compartment-Interlocking-Small-Parts-Organizer-in-Black-2-Pack-320034/204515485 If anyone does this sort of plastic dust/mouse-proof snack box with success, I'd be interested to hear. Can you fit much for snacks into it? Does it allow you to get some new accounts you otherwise couldn't? My initial thinking was that those locations are probably not ideal anyways, but you never know until you try. Some locations I though would be slow or high theft have been amazing for me, and vice versa, over my time doing this. I have plenty of room to expand, and I currently have about 2-4 locations on every commercial mile stretch nearby. I was hoping these tougher boxes for select locations might help me maybe get to 3-5 per mile strip by re-trying some locations I'd passed over in the past. I am only part-time, so I like to keep my locations tight for a real fast route. Thanks
  8. Yep, no need to re-invent the wheel from they way I see it. Cardboard boxes are very cheap, and they work well. Cardboard boxes are also real light and won't gouge your car seats, scuff things, break if you drop them, or give ppl splinters. I've made some minor tweaks to my Cameron boxes that I really iike over my time doing snack boxes, but the main reason I use them is that they are under $4 each (even with the slight mods and name badging I put on them), and they work well and look good. I can replace them cheap and easily when auto places get grease on them or if they begin to look ragged. Heck, I even balked at the idea of spending roughly $10 each (plus cash box) on plastic snap boxes from hardware stores for the semi-outdoor locations where dust or mice might be a problem. I like the simplicity and speed and low cost of cardboard ones that much. Obvious pros of snack boxes is low start up cost, simplicity of locating and re-locating, fast change-outs, no equipment (dolly, truck or van, machines, etc). Obvious cons are theft %, lower volume per location, serious pricing limitations (no change or cards). ...it seems to me that due to low volume and theft % of snack boxes, you have to really keep costs minimal on your supplies (boxes, marketing materials and website, etc). Your price and the quality of candy and snack that you deliver for that price are your selling points, so you sure don't want to compromise there. You will get more return if you put more money into your snacks or your marketing; the boxes just need to be passable and functional. Also, remember, you are probably going to need at least 50% more boxes than you have locations. That is in order to always have some ready for new locations and assuming you want to go in to existing locations and do a quick and smooth switch (greet the biz staff, drop off a full box, and take away the prior box... which lets you do exchanges in two minutes, tops), so keep it cheap and consistent with your boxes. JMO
  9. As I mentioned above, I was bumping to get ideas. I do snack boxes, so I can use snacks with basically any size. I can see how Slim Jim would be bad in coil vending machines for sure. Thanks for the replies... I figured Dollar Tree might just be able to do it with thinner margin than we can due to massive volume. I was hoping maybe there was a supplier with roughly 50c for 1oz beef sticks they have, though.
  10. I just use Slim Jim originals and sell them for 50c in my snack boxes... that is the only thing I can find that makes sense. They sell real well. I will probably do Slim Jim Giant for $1.50 when I decide to go to that price point, but for now, I'm at $1.00 and 50c items. The Slim Jim Giant are roughly 70c each, and other brands are even higher at Sams... not possible to have any of those in a $1.00 honor box. I truly don't get how Dollar Tree has Jack Link Squatch 1oz, Jack Link beef strip 0.8oz, beef and cheese pack, Slim Jim Giants 0.97oz... all for $1 each. Yes, I obviously realize they buy them by the tens of thousands and probably get them for 25-35 cents each, but should really mean that could be a supplier that could profit selling those items for 50c or thereabouts to folks like us who are buying a few dozen or few hundred? Bumping this thread for any ideas...
  11. I grew up there. I'm in center Detroit metro (Royal Oak) now. Yeah, tough sledding with the winter weather. I find this to be a real good time to get new locations, though. Yeah, everyone is grumpy with the SAD going around, but most places are slow, less bombarded with salesmen, and more willing to chat (even managers)... not so much when they have a full lobby or waiting room in a few months lol. Is this one yours? https://www.snacktimeflint.com/
  12. Yes, I understand all of these points. Good insight by all. My gross profit potential is roughly 40% on the candy bars and about 70% on everything else. Assuming 20% theft (mine has never averaged that high), I'm then actually at 20% gross profit margin on candy bars and 50% on everything else. Since my box is 20% candy bars and 80% other stuff... you get 44% overall gross profit margin (higher if theft were under 20%, which is almost always is... also higher when I find snacks on sale, which I frequently do... above margins were assuming current full prices on snacks). Keep in mind that I'm not giving two crackers or larger chips or other costly things for $1, so that offsets the candy bars somewhat. I am not afraid of losing locations, and I'm definitely not afraid of going out of business (this is my side hustle for fun and extra bucks, not full time job). As I said, I have many reasons I keep the box at $1.00 with eventual transition to $1.50. The main one is ease of customers purchasing and less coins. Another is perceived quality and simplicity of candy bars and $1 price point; I find this to really help with locating and my sales pitch. I feel that $1.25 is clunky and odd, and honor boxes are in the exact change business. Again, people would be asking for change at the business' register (annoying after awhile, good way to lose a location), paying whatever they have (probably $1 anyways), or trying to open the snack box cash door to "make change." I see no logical way to do it without 50c increments so that it is easy to pay exact price or buy two for a flat dollar amount. Nobody wants to overpay, and most feel guilty about underpaying. It has to be easy and enjoyable for them. This is a major difference between vending machines or store sales versus the honor box. I know that what works for me doesn't work for the world. As an aside, a nice additional reason for $1.00 snacks is that I have a local competitor who does $1.25 boxes that don't even have candy bars (mostly just chips and crackers), so it is easy to displace their locations which are not very satisfied... but that really had nothing to do with my decision making, that was just a bonus I ran across while locating some boxes last year. Who knows, though, he might take some locations back if I go to $1.50 snacks when he is still at $1.25... but he'd need to get much better quality of snacks.
  13. Much good advice already. I do all my own box placements face-to-face and will just share what works for me: 1) Look good (casual but professional... biz logo or nice T-shirt or polo, clean shave and haircut, etc) and big smile, be very friendly. 2) Have something they want. That can practically sell itself. That something could be good candy, charity contribution, commission, great service, etc. The more the better. A lot of people use charity connection to try to turn the screws on the potential box placement, but I find that cheesy (and 99% false). They quickly realize you are trying to pressure them, and most people will then resist that. Even if it works sometimes to pimp the charity angle, you still have to look it yourself in the mirror at the end of the day. Honesty is telling the truth, but integrity is being honest with yourself, ya know? It is fine to have a charity, but I wouldn't always lead with it when placing boxes. As for commission, I am too small time and too lazy at accounting. Therefore, I just have good product... and service. I show the quality candy and snacks they'd want at good prices, I tell them I provide good service with re-stocking, keeping them fresh, etc. ...No matter what main selling point you decide on, the key is to establish and maintain the tone of the convo so you are authentic but always explaining to them how you are going to do them a favor. Get it? Instead of explaining why they should let you put your box in their business, you want to offer to bring a good box which will be loved and helpful at their business. If they direct the tone to what you are getting from it, immediately try to flip it back to their benefit. It is all about who is helping who. Option 1: 'Hello, can I talk to the manager... umm, hi sir, I am helping to collect money for charity X and would appreciate if you would let me put this box of penny candy which will be sold for dollars on your business counter." Option 2: 'Hi, good morning (to first worker you encounter). I'm bringing these snack boxes to AnytownUSA businesses like this to offer high quality snacks at better prices than most vending machines... right in the break room. I know a lot of people don't like having to walk down the street or drive to get food when they want a snack or forget their lunch. No contract, no obligation, good re-stocking service as needed. I bet that'd help you guys out here?" I don't do the cheapo candy like gumballs or charity mints, but I would probably sell them as a great way to keep the kids in their waiting room from getting too whiny and keep the parents liking the place. Basically, it all comes down to who is doing who a favor. It is all about tone. Get it? GL out there guys, you will do well "LAW 13 WHEN ASKING FOR HELP, APPEAL TO PEOPLE'S SELF INTEREST, NEVER TO THEIR MERCY OR GRATITUDE If you need to turn to an ally for help, do not bother to remind him of your past assistance and good deeds. He will find a way to ignore you. Instead, uncover something in your request, or in your alliance with him, that will benefit him, and emphasize it out of all proportion. He will respond enthusiastically when he sees something to be gained for himself." -Robert Greene, The 48 Laws of Power
  14. I know this is an old thread, but since it is a sticky, this mistaken kind of thinking above regarding $1 candy bars being unfeasible needs to be addressed. ...First, full size candy bars (good stuff like Snickers, Twix, M&M peanut, etc) now cost more like 60-65 cents each as I write this in 2019. I still charge $1.00 each. Why? How? Many reasons: -Competition. Local grocery stores and dollar stores charge $1.00 or a bit less, gas stations usually charge $1.00-1.25, vending machines usually $1.00-1.25 depending on location. No, those are not your direct competitors, but that doesn't matter. Everyone sees these prices every day, though. Those become the prices that a candy bar "should be" sold for in the eyes of the decision maker you talk to about placing your box, the employees considering buying from your box (and paying in full versus shorting or stealing from you), etc. You are limited by people's perception of the market, which is largely a function of what your competition prices the same item for. -Quality sells. Many vendors may have great locations for a snack box (or other vending types) which they don't even know are great. They don't know since they have low sales due to bad snacks in the box/machine (and they just blame the location for being "slow"). Even worse, they may have zero sales from that great location since they were denied or removed of placement of a box/machine which was viewed by decision maker manager or the employees as low quality candy/snacks or too highly priced. Quality sells. What sells much better: Girl Scout cookies or Boy Scout popcorn? Yep. -Goodwill. If you focus on how much money you can make, it is unlikely that vending (or any biz) will be enjoyable... even if you do make money. If you focus on adding value to customers and people by giving them a service they want and need, it is generally much more enjoyable... and the money usually follows. It's funny how that works. If I was selling the cheapest low quality candy I could find and hyping up a false or barely existent charity affiliation to place and keep the boxes, I don't think I'd enjoy it at all. It would barely matter what the profit margins were if you didn't like the work. I enjoy giving new accounts a free candy or snack item... and the occasional one for continued good business. The smiles and handshakes I am greeted with on my route are the best part of it all. I would rather have 50 quality accounts who like my box and watch out for it versus 100 that felt pressured or bribed into having the box there and have little respect or interest for it. Like any small business, this is a game of personal relationships. You will generally notice a difference in higher box acceptance, lower box removal requests, higher sales, lower theft % if you spend the time to make good relationships and good product... rather than mainly keying in on getting and keeping every nickel and dime you can. This is why the reject rate is so high when you use box locator services: you never made the personal relationship. Business owners talk, and your accounts who like you will even try to get you a few more. -Loss Leaders. Guys, the Dollar Tree doesn't buy every item on its shelves for under a quarter. Taco Bell or McD doesn't have quadruple markup on all dollar menu items (some are probably sold at 10x food cost and others only 2x). They know that some products will make higher margin than others, but it all builds brand loyalty and gets the customer coming back. It is a game of averages with pricing. Again, quality sells. If there isn't at least some quality on the menu, you will have a very rough go of it. Even if you assume the $1.00 full size candy in a snack box is a break even (60c cost, 20c theft, 20c labor and driving etc), it is still a huge win for you... since it wins you so many accounts - and keeps them happy. That popular candy bar at a good price is the main thing people are looking for as you pitch new locations on having a box, so even if it makes me little or nothing... it gets the rest of the box in there and builds goodwill. You can't ask for more than that in a loss leader! -Simplicity. With a snack box, you're obviously in the business of exact change. There is often no ability for people to easily get and make change in the break room... or even in the building. Odd price amounts can result in shortage from people just paying a dollar - or worse, people trying to get into cash box to make change. If it is a gas station or a newer vending machine that accepts credit cards and makes change, go ahead and charge $1.15 or $1.25 or even $1.38 if you want. Snack box is a different animal. It has its pros/cons, and pricing ability is one of the cons. I will eventually go to $1.50 on everything (so most people will buy 2 items for $3.00), but I'm holding off on doing that for as long as possible. -Less Coin. This is not bulk or full machines or large scale lollipop box vending where massive amounts of quarters are part of the game. Don't get me wrong, I like coins and hope I get the occasional pre-1964 silver quarter, lol. However, on the route and during accounting back home, coins are a chore. They waste a lot of time. Part of the appeal of snack boxes is keeping coin change volume manageable and not needing expense of a change counter and rolling machine. For me, coin is a pain. CoinStar machines are expensive unless I need an one of their no-fee gift certificates anyways. Banks usually charge fees also or won't accept coin unless it is in rolls. Going to $1.25 on candy bars (or everything) just invites a lot more coin and/or a lot more shortage since people won't have exact change. As I said, I'm holding off on increasing prices until $1.50 for that reason... hopefully three dollar bills for two snacks at least half the time. -Spoilage. With full size candy bars, you get your most popular item AND the longest shelf life of all items (tied with maybe nuts or gum). In snack boxes, the candy will be in a climate controlled break room, so temp isn't usually an issue. Good candy bar expiration rate in snack boxes is zero percent in my experience. That is great for everyone... except my friends and family hoping for freebies, lol. ..."But, but, but I wanna make more money per item! I don't care about coin or simplicity of pricing, and I already have enough boxes located and I'm rural where I don't need to have best quality or price to get and keep accounts." Ok, then do $1.25... or even do $1.50 for your box. That might work in some areas, or people might just walk to 7 Eleven. People might go for full size candy priced over $1 in your box and actually pay that extra quarter or two most of the time (if they have it in their pocket or purse or can make change at a register on site), but I doubt they'd do over a dollar for crackers or chips or most of your other stuff. Go ahead and try; there is no right and wrong. As I said, I just wanted to debunk the myth that $1 candy bars are not possible. They absolutely are. Even if Snickers cost went to 75c, I would still use at least a few of them due to what they bring to the table in terms of quality and goodwill and overall benefits to my biz. Assuming theft % and box longevity were equal, I personally would rather sell 25 snacks per week for $1.00 than 15 for $1.25 weekly. Other places people see and buy the same candy you have in your box (groc, gas, drug, etc stores) might get their candy cheaper due to big volume buying, but they pay rent and bills and employees and etc etc, and vending machine companies pay for machines/parts and employees and heat damage and etc etc which a small time snack box guy doesn't have to worry about. The "big guys" will have to keep raising prices as product and handling costs go up, but I feel you want to stay a half step behind them for reasons stated above. The main reasons are certainly competition and quality and simplicity. JMO
  15. This is hands down the best book on vending that I've come across. I refer back to it from time to time. It should be read by every type of vendor (charity, snack, machines, bulk, pro company, etc)... and preferably read before they even start or order any boxes/machines/snacks. This was the book which really opened my eyes and showed me that vending machines were not for me... but gave me the info and confidence to launch snack boxes with good success. The most valuable part of the book is definitely the dissection of customer service issues (appearance, scripts, locating, commission, etc). He gives tons of great pearls on developing scripts, customer service to get and keep accounts, and things to consider. Even though I'm just a snack box guy, many of his same principles recommended for drink/snack accounts certainly apply to mine also. Every other eBook I've read on vending is too short, too narrow, or just plain bad info. My only minor gripe about the RJT book is that it is a little too light on bulk vending info and too heavy on drink/snack... but I guess that is clearly the target readership. Still, easily a 9/10 rating for this book while other books I've read are usually 5/10 at best.
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