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Lbfrozen last won the day on December 13 2015

Lbfrozen had the most liked content!

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About Lbfrozen

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  1. I have a National 673 that was never put on location by the prior owner and sat in the warehouse for years. So I installed it for my best customer to replace their very well-worn National coffee machine. Anyway, it was never set up correctly, and it was National that converted it to a paper filter brewer. After getting the interference filter re-wired and the drive pin in the right place, it has not consistently worked right. I replaced the motor with a new one (I guess the new motor could be weak off the shelf) to try to eliminate that factor. Short story long, the brewer motor gets up the steep part of the cam on the brewer (to clamp the brewer barrel down) and brews a good cup of coffee. However, it often will not move across the level part of the brewer cam to release the brewer barrel. When I manually press down on the brewer barrel, it will move to release from the clamped position. Otherwise, it will never release the brewer to go back up. After it sits a while, I put it in brewer test, and it usually clamps and homes correctly. If the brewer barrel is removed (less force necessary to turn the cam), it clamps and homes every time. I have not yet checked for voltage drop at the motor, but I have an electrician on site who will go through the entire circuit if I can find the schematic. (Does anyone have a link or pdf of that?) has anyone seen a brewer on a 673 that can do the hard work of clamping the brewer barrel down, but cannot do the easy work of releasing it? It is so wonderful to try to replace a machine with nice, newer equipment for your biggest account, and then watch it sit there like a lump. Any help or ideas will be appreciated. LB So, I have been mostly silent for the past year. No biggie, since about 75 percent of what I say here is smart aleck long form commentary. We bought everything from a retiring vendor who was multiple times our size. Some interesting stories and lessons learned, most of which were predicted, if not anticipated. All of that, plus a food truck and life in general have kept me away from this community. I have missed it. I hope to soon follow up on a few posts I started and had answered by some of you guys, so that anyone looking in the future will see what ideas or advice worked on a specific problem.
  2. Thanks, AZ. Temp sensor is connected, and the temperature is low and stays there. I even turned it down to 36° so there would be no question as to whether the health sensor was involved. I could believe that there might be a problem with the power supply, but everything seems to function correctly (lights, turret, coin mech). I should note that the display initially reads "insert money" when the small door is closed, but it switches to "sorry – out of service" in less than one second after the door is closed. When you reopen the small door, no error is displayed. It has been my understanding that the out of service message was only triggered by a critical error. Is there a list of failures or errors that would put the machine out of service without registering a critical error? Can a broken door switch cause the machine to go out of service without registering an error? I called a repair technician this morning, and he suggested a few things, but most had already been dealt with. His final thought was that the control board might be defective. Of course, The chances of the board failing in such a way that the machine would go out of service without an error seems unlikely, although that is just my assumption without knowing the logic of the control system. I know the machine is obsolete, but it is very clean and has been running perfectly for a long time. I would rather not start over with a move that replaces it with a spare 431. Thanks.
  3. Hi all. I have been away for a while due to waaaaay too much work, and now I have a problem that I do not understand. We have a Rowe 648 that was out of service for a while due to a cooling deck that need repair, and subsequent issues with the fuse for the cooling system. The machine is currently powered up, but the compressor is plugged directly into a wall outlet. I had a coin mech error that took a while to figure out (turned out that the harness plug was not fully seated on the control board). Anyway, three coin mechs and a simple fix later, the machine has no errors left to clear. So, close the door, and the machine turns off the lights and displays "sorry – out of service". Open the door back up, and no errors are displayed. So, can anyone tell me why this machine is going out of service? Thanks in advance.
  4. Why are Lipton Iced Tea cans soft sometimes?

    We had multiple Fuze cans in a recent order that were not completely full of the drink, much less any added gas. Many were thrown out. Unless there is a very rare manufacturing problem - which is doubtful, since we are talking about different drinks and drinks over time - the weakness you feel in lemonade, fruit punch, tea, and Gatorade cans is only the lack of carbonation or added gas, as mentioned above. When shaken, carbonated drinks reach an allowable pressure inside the can, and they fizz very little after that. The journey to your machine gets them all to about the same pressure, hence the consistency in the way the can feels. Non-carbonated drinks have a wider range of pressure, resulting in the "weird" ones. Can drinks with less pressure than a soda can jam a column in a stacker drink machine, but that depends heavily on the machine brand, model, and setup. For instance, my Royal 650's might jam on a Minute Maid Lemonade can, but my (Coke's) Royal 660's never jam. The best way to avoid problems is to keep the stack of drinks as low as possible without selling out between servicing. As for the feel of these cans, after thousands of them tossed into machines, non of them feel "normal" to me. Generally, those drinks just do not taste very good out of a can, anyway. As for customer satisfaction, if they have drank non-carbonated drinks from a can, they already know what the can feels like and you will likely never hear a single comment about it. Soft cans do well in non-vertical stackers (like an Antares!), and YMMV with glassfront machines (but they normally do just fine).
  5. Does anyone know how to attach the display board to the red lens in a Royal drink machine? I already know how to break the red tabs on the lens, so now I want to know how to actually get the display board under the tabs without breaking any of the aforementioned pieces. I have a spare, but I know what will happen if I try to install it - hence this post. If the spare does not work out, AZ, can you supply the lens only (no display board)?
  6. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    That was the direction I was headed, la. Supply voltage (from two separate circuits) is a steady 120 V. With everything removed, drink shelf kinda works, but not really. High current error message on test vends is gone - replaced with OK. Now, money in registers a credit, but all selections on both drink shelves say "make another selection". Regardless, the problem has to be in the power box. There are a few discolored areas of plastic and metal along the way in the box. I am cleaning connections, and I will switch transformers and some connections. Thanks for reading, and thanks for the suggestions.
  7. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    I have swapped the harnesses. With one or both shelves connected in either the D or E plug on the board, it vends, shows ERROR, and leaves the credit up. The HC 186, HC 187, or HC 188 error still shows on test vends. Auto sequence shows stuff like in my last post. If I am thinking correctly, both harnesses would have to have the same level of damage hidden from view. I have changed the board and also measured the power supply at rest, as well as under load on the 24 V pins of the power supply. Everything measured within acceptable ranges. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that small electric motors probably do not have much of a start surge as compared to those solenoids. Maybe I was measuring the wrong pins during drink (solenoid actuated) vends. All solenoids look, feel, and sound the same when electrically or manually actuated. (Well, D shelf, anyway. I cannot get to E shelf solenoids without disassembly, but the problem occurs with that shelf disconnected, anyway.) Btw, I have tried operation with the light and ballast disconnected. I may try with no refrigeration connected next. Power box problem, then? I have a spare, but I am not sure it would not do the same thing under load. And I suppose I could start measuring resistance in every power or drink shelf wire in the machine. I could send a lot of proposals or prep a lot of machines for placement in the time I have spent on this one. What a week.
  8. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    Does anyone know what the abbreviation "BA" or "BB" would mean on a selection during auto sequence? For example, Selections that work list something like: A1 27 OK (or 28 OK or 29 OK) Selections not present list something like: A9 02 NC (or 01 NC) Selections that do not work list something like: D1 BB HC (or BA HC) Are the numbers voltage measurements? What, then is "BB"? At this point, I just want to figure it out. The account is about to get a different machine from us. Also, I cleaned up come loose grounds and charred connections in the power box.
  9. Moving vending machines.

    Solid advice so far, mp. There are many good past threads on this subject, but the best tips and tricks are hard to find, since they are all over the place, nested in between other comments filled with nuances and follow-up questions. A few important things that you will find there: -There is no one-size-fits-all piece of equipment or method. Have backup plans, equipment, time, friends, et cetera. -Steps (and even inclines over 5 degrees!) change the entire scenario. -Bigger wheels are better in most cases, and pneumatic tires are seldom a good idea. Hard wheels, my friend. -Names like Anderson Dolly, Dutro - big blue, Stevens (with the big wheels) - big red, and many others are good search terms here and online. -Electric-powered hand trucks are useful, but they can damage steps and tip machines easily. They are also expensive, and, when the battery dies, that machine is done for the day. -A lift gate with a platform as large as your machine's footprint is not big enough. The larger the platform, the greater your chance of living through a move. I write in light and comical terms, but this one is deadly serious. Which leads to... -That machine does not care. If you are moving a machine yourself or with friends, always keep in your mind to be prepared to lose the machine. When it starts to jump off of a lift gate platform, fall off a hand truck, or roll back down an incline and hit the ground, have your decision point in mind where you will stop trying to keep control of the machine and let it go. Hope that there is no audience or security camera, and have a plan for standing that machine back up and going home for the day. -Tilting trailers are good, but have on hand two friends or a winch. Tuck-under liftgates make for a clean look on a truck, but they are seldom level when they come off the ground. It cost less to rent a truck or hire someone for occasional moves than to buy, insure, garage, and maintain a liftgate on a truck. (We have a liftgate truck for sale right now, actually.
  10. You're most ridiculous location?

    Mine is... All of them.
  11. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    That makes sense, AZ. I will check that. But, does this mean I have two separate electrical issues, since, when I try to vend with the "bad" shelf unplugged, I still get a vend error that shows a high current cause on the error list. Both boards would vend a drink, leave the credit in escrow and show an error, then not allow any more attempts on that selection.
  12. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    Thanks, la. Auto sequence will turn all spirals and activate all solenoids, but a self test results in 37 active items. (There should be 38.) I know which drink shelf is only registering nine items instead of 10, because if you unplug that shelf, 29 items show up in a test. If you unplug the working drink shelf, 28 items show up in a test. However, the high current error still shows up and messes up vends on drinks, even when the shelf with one "missing" item is unplugged and removed from the scenario. I think I will next measure the voltages from the power box during active vends to see if there is a spike or drop under load.
  13. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    Switched the board, jumper, and EPROM. Same vend error, except that it now reads HC 187 on test bends on the drink shelves. I do not consider a higher number to be progress. What does "harness issue" mean in the troubleshooting guide?
  14. Dixie Narco Entray combo

    Thanks, AZ. I have one extra Entray board, and I will let you know if I need something else. I guess I will eventually check voltages on the board I am about to replace. It is a shame (and odd) that four out of six sets of pins work fine and the other two mostly work.
  15. Great machine when it works correctly. Snacks vend fine. Put in a dollar or coins, credit shows on display, make a selection, product vends, retrieve product and change, enjoy snack. Drinks are messed up. On any selection on either drink shelf, put in money, a credit displays, make a selection, product vends, ERROR shows on display, credit remains on the display, and the product number (e.g. E1) will not attempt any more vends. The existing credit can be used on a snack (which vends fine) or on an attempt for another drink (which then also vends and then displays ERROR). "List Errors" in the Test Menu shows "Vend Err". Test vends of a drink selection results in an HC 186 error. The voltages coming from the power box are all seem good, although a little high (14 V, 28 V, 115 V). I have another board (somewhere) that should be good. Before I perform surgery and also reprogram the entire machine, I wanted to ask if anyone knows specifically what the numbers on an HC error mean. The electrical service should be sufficient. It seems unlikely to be a harness issue, since it happens with both drink shelves. The power box tested okay (or, at least, close to okay). The manual discusses HC errors for "Selection Will Not Vend", but solenoids and gates work fine. It is the credit that will not process. Any thoughts or answers would be appreciated. LB