Generation Y Explained

[mission vending]

People born before 1946 were called -

The Greatest Generation.

People born between 1946 and 1964 are called -

The Baby Boomers.

People born between 1965 and 1979 are called -

Generation X.

And people born between 1980 and 2010 are called - Generation Y.

Why do we call the last group -Generation Y ?

Y should I get a job?

Y should I leave home and find my own place?

Y should I get a car when I can borrow yours?

Y should I clean my room?

Y should I wash and iron my own clothes?

Y should I buy any food?

[PerformaVending]

"Y" indeed... I'm not sure whether to laugh, or shudder...

[The Mage]

My brothers a boomer, and I'm an X-man.

Really people were saying the exact same thing about X, and before that were the smelly hippies. (The ones with the chant "Peace, Love, and Income Tax!")

[Shauna]

Hey, hey. I'm right on the cusp of X and Y. And so is my husband.

The real problem was the parents. Y should I make my children do chores? Y shouldn't I pay my child an allowance for living in my house, eating my food, draining my energy, and raising my bloodpressure? Y is my child not special? Y should the rules apply to my child?

I was raised old school. Which is interesting because I was born to a teenaged mom. But to this day, I still have a healthy fear/respect for her and only purposely piss her off when I'm two states away.

[rdendy]

Hey, hey. I'm right on the cusp of X and Y. And so is my husband.

The real problem was the parents. Y should I make my children do chores? Y shouldn't I pay my child an allowance for living in my house, eating my food, draining my energy, and raising my bloodpressure? Y is my child not special? Y should the rules apply to my child?

I was raised old school. Which is interesting because I was born to a teenaged mom. But to this day, I still have a healthy fear/respect for her and only purposely piss her off when I'm two states away.

Me thinks someone was raised right

[Cvbabcock]

Y should I have to think? That is the problem. LOL I am a Y and many of them cant do critical thinking. It is sad...

[shepherdsflock]

I'm at the upper end of generation Y, born in 1981. I can't say that the attitude of my generation is justifiable, but I can understand it. Just recently, my wife I and were going through some old check books, tax records, and other stuff of our parents'. My father was a high school dropout, and at the same age I am now was working as a machinist in a factory making $40k per year. This was in 1989. My wife's father, who had a bachelor's degree, was working for the FAA in 1984 making $52k per year. Here I am, almost 30 years later with a college degree trying to support my family on the same number of dollars that my father was making with not even a high school diploma. The wages for young people are lower than they were during our parents' generation and when you account for inflation our generation is making much less than they were at the same age.

As I said, I can't justify the attitude of "why bother trying?", but I can understand it. It is very frustrating sometimes to realize that for the same amount of effort we'll never see the same standard of living. However, I also believe it doesn't have to be permanent and the young people today who are willing to work hard will see a better standard of living than those who don't work. The older generation is holding the majority of the wealth today. As terrible as it sounds, the older generation won't live forever. Someday they won't be here, and their money will find its way into the hands of those in my generation who worked hard and acquired the capital and resources to attract that money and put it to work.

[shepherdsflock]

One other thing I will say about my generation is that they don't feel the "necessity" to achieve like the older generations did. Things like birth control have made the urgency to work hard and acquire skills and income a thing of the past. Since you can plan everything from when you want to conceive a child to the day you want it to be born, you can just casually live life at your own leisurely pace. The Greatest Generation, my grandparents's generation, had to learn to adapt to whatever life threw at them. Pregnancies and things couldn't be planned, and if you had two children and were barely making ends meet and you found out that your wife was pregnant with a third child, you HAD to find a way to either free up income in the household budget or increase the size of the family budget and you had to do it quick.

Time would fail me to tell of all the stories my grandfather told me about the jobs he took on to raise their three children. He worked in the same factory for 35 years, but through the years to make ends meet he drove a dump truck, tarred roofs, and a myriad of other things in the hours he wasn't working at the factory.

[The Mage]

You might not be making as much as your Father was, but that is not the average. The facts are people are making more today, and things are cheaper then ever. There are ups and downs, but this is a trend well over 100 years.

What it sounds like is you have fallen for the media "propaganda". They like to imply things are bad, and they always do that. Doom and gloom is just around the corner. But that is how they sell newspapers and news television programs.

One of the numbers is often sited is the last 10 years of flat income. But this is really bad math, because income includes benefits, and those benefits have increased dramatically, mostly due to the increased cost of healthcare. (I read a report about how there are signs that this increase is ending, and may come down.)

I also noticed you mentioned all the wealth held by the older generations. The reason for this is that they have had so much more time to accumulate that wealth. But you also need to be aware that it isn't a zero sum game.

There is this faulty idea that if one person has a dollar, that another cannot have that dollar. And that there are a limited number of dollars out there. (Well other then the printing presses running full out right now.) But the reality is that wealth is not really about dollars, but about value, and there is an unlimited ability to increase wealth.

Here is a super simplified example: (Tell me if I posted this before.)

A person owns a $100k house. He pays him $10k to improve that house, and after fixing it up, it is now worth $125k. He then sells the house for $120k to a third person.

The contractor made $10k, (well minus the costs of material.) The homeowner made $10k from the sale, and the new owner has a house worth $5k more then he paid for it.

Here everybody benefited. Nobody was scammed, nobody lost out. And $15k came into existence.

People create money (actually value) all the time. This is where wealth actually comes from, and why it is possible for everyone and anyone to become wealthy.

The funny thing is we haven't seen anything yet. There is a serious boom coming over the next 30 years, driven by technology, and it may not end there. Processors are becoming ridiculously powerful. The genome project took over a billion dollars to sequence the human genome in a decade. They can now do the same thing in a month for a grand, and they are predicting in a couple of years it will be down to $100, and one week.

30 years ago, if you had a car phone, you were rich.

The PS3 has the same power of a military supercomputer from 1997. The chip in the musical greeting card you throw away has more power then the entire Allied forces in WWII. (These 2 items from Michio Kaku.)

The points I am trying to make are that if you quit listening to people tell you how bad your life is, you may notice it really isn't that bad, and is probably pretty good. But if your not happy with how your life is right now, change it. Or the parts of it you are not happy about. You have so much more power over this then you think.

The next point is that things have improved dramatically for everyone, over the past 100 year, the past 50, the past 25, and even the past 10. This trend is about to increase, so don't be worried.

Personally I am attempting to evolve past the idea of a job. I no longer think of working for an income, but working to create an income. Not everyone will fit this philosophy, at least not entirely, and there is nothing wrong with a job, as long as you enjoy what you do.

The best concept I ever heard is to decide what kind of life you want to live, then design your life around that lifestyle. For some that doesn't mean fancy cars, or an expensive house. That could mean a very frugal life, and making just enough to pay for it. (Along with having the life, and health insurance in place, as well as enough in savings/investments.) But others want the expensive car, big house, and yacht. They could also want to simply be the best Doctor, Engineer, Physicist, or Vendor around.

Try not to place limits on yourself, because those are the only limits that exist. When you look at your Father and say "I won't eve make as much as he did." you have just placed a limit on yourself. You just decided that this is the upper limits of your abilities, or the upper limits what what some imagined ceiling that will stop you. This results in people not even trying. (Insert Yoda quote here.)

A great example is where 2 ads for the exact same job (IT) were placed. The only difference in the ads was the pay. One was for ~ $30k a year, and the other was for ~ $100k a year. They had over 100 applicants for the $30k job, and only 4 for the $100k job. So many people disbelieved in their ability to make the higher income that they didn't even apply. (This is from memory, so my numbers could be off a little.)

Sorry for the long winded, (and short paragraphed) rant.

Interesting how a joke turned into a serious conversation.

[PerformaVending]

Interesting how a joke turned into a serious conversation.

Mission has a knack for this. It's sort of like a superpower.

[Technivend]

Lighter material. May be NSW, don't remember. But an interesting rant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJD8pZiRIzs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[dogcow]

i love carolla the man is a genius that he can just riff on ANY topic

[The Mage]

Wow, I just gained a lot of respect for that guy.

And going to the YouTube vid, I am seeing a lot of anti-Carolla posts. Had to keep myself from responding.

[shepherdsflock]

Hey, Mage, I agree with you on the limits idea. That was a point I was trying to make about how my generation still can work hard and will see a reward for that work later, but the part about insurance benefits isn't exactly encouraging to my generation. Yes, the dollars spent on benefits by employers has gone up substantially, but even when I was a kid in the 1980s most people paid very little toward health insurance. As the health benefit package contributions have gone up, it hasn't really increased the net income of anyone. You still don't take any more home on your paycheck to buy groceries, pay rent or mortgage, etc.

Also, your comment about the importance of the dollar being tied not to quantity but to value is spot on. The value of the dollar has been dropping. When my father was making $40k/year, those $40k offered a very comfortable standard of living. Those same $40k today have far less buying power. In the example I used above of my father-in-law making $52k in 1984, they also happened to purchase their second house that year. Guess what they paid for it? $45k. They were able to purchase a house for less than a year's income. My parents bought their house in 1990. This was the same time my father was making $40k, and they paid $62k. I make $43k today and houses like my father's now fetch about $130k.

So you see what I'm driving at here? The younger generation is facing a much tougher struggle just to make ends meet. The cost of basic necessities like housing and food gobble up your whole budget when you're trying to support a family on the types of wages and salaries that are available to young people today. You can't enter the job market at a high earning level. I've worked for 12 years to get to $43k, and we're barely making it. Most of my friends don't make nearly as much as I do. That is why so many young families are on government assistance programs. Nearly half of the children in this nation get their food from food stamps programs. Nearly HALF. NONE of my friends are unemployed, and yet most of them receive food stamps and Medicaid. These are people who work full time, some of them work a full time job plus a part time job and still aren't making enough. The "competitive" wages around here are $9/hour. One single person would barely be able to live on that, let alone support a family.

And so now you can understand why this generation would have the attitude of "why try? why get a job?". They have no hope. Everything looks hopeless to them. It's not really hopeless, but if you have not been taught to work hard and sacrifice, if you saw your parents' generation not having to work all that hard to have good earnings, then your perspective leads you to believe that the situation is hopeless and you have no reason to bother trying. I wish that more of my generation knew their grandparents and great-grandparents; the ones who went through periods of great difficulty like the Great Depression and had to adapt to hard circumstances and saw their hard work pay off 10 and 20 years down the road.

[dogcow]

Also, your comment about the importance of the dollar being tied not to quantity but to value is spot on. The value of the dollar has been dropping. When my father was making $40k/year, those $40k offered a very comfortable standard of living. Those same $40k today have far less buying power. In the example I used above of my father-in-law making $52k in 1984, they also happened to purchase their second house that year. Guess what they paid for it? $45k. They were able to purchase a house for less than a year's income. My parents bought their house in 1990. This was the same time my father was making $40k, and they paid $62k. I make $43k today and houses like my father's now fetch about $130k.

So you see what I'm driving at here? The younger generation is facing a much tougher struggle just to make ends meet. The cost of basic necessities like housing and food gobble up your whole budget when you're trying to support a family on the types of wages and salaries that are available to young people today. You can't enter the job market at a high earning level. I've worked for 12 years to get to $43k, and we're barely making it.

i completely disagree, im not disputing inflation exists but the same money now buys

you a MUCH better standard of life....when i grew up a "phone" was a thing that hung on

the wall in your kitchen. i had my own phone lines because I was on the modem all the time but

this was considered a huge luxury nobody else i knew had their own phone line. Now every member

of every family pretty much has their own cell phone. it is considered a necessity .

also think of the other things that are considered necessity now that didn't exist or werent commonplace

in 1984. Flat screen tv, cable, cell phone, internet

look at cars...take a low end car from 1984 compare to now, even the cheapest cars now

are high quality in comparison...in 84 air conditioning wasnt even standard , now airbags, cruise

control, ABS , cd player,etc.. are standard on even very low end cars plus the cars last longer, get

better mileage and break down less.

hell i just bought a reciprocating saw for $24.00 brand new

if you want to take $40,000 and live like you did in 1984 i gaurantee you

would have a lot of money left over at the end of the month.

also the land thing depends where u live, in my neighborhood there are a few houses for

40-60k because of the collapse, i got my house for 80

also you have to remember in 84 they got the house cheap because interest rates

were what, 15% ?! nobody was buying, hell most people werent WORKING in 1984

[The Mage]

Hey sheperdsflock.

This is a third attempt at responding. My first turned into my story, and was growing to 3 pages. I tried to redo the post, and still ended up with 2 pages. I find that when I post a novel, people don't read it.

With health benefits increasing, it is actually saving you money. It is one of those things you don't see, so you don't feel you have the benefit. But it is saving you money, and costing the employer money.

You mention your Father-in-law making $57k in 1984. But the average wage then was $16,135. He was making 3.5 times the average. In 2010 the average was $41,637. (Numbers from Social Security.0 Meaning in today’s money, he would be making over $143k a year. (Very simple math.) That puts him in the top 10% of earners.

Not a good comparison for what your saying, but still you should try to beat that.

Anyway, lets turn this discussion around a little.

Do you have credit cards? A car loan? A student loan?

Now do you have a budget? Do you know where every dollar is being spent?

Financially I went to hell, thought I was coming back, and got sent further down into another financial hell. It did involve big medical bills, and a lot of stupidity. But after experiencing this, I no longer feel sorry for other people when they complain about their finances.

I have heard people complain, and often. Most of these people then start texting on their nice new phone, with the unlimited plan. Or get into their new car, and drive to the bar to spend another $50+ on their beer belly.

I gained control, and remember how 2008 was. After the economy went down the hill, or were told it did, suddenly I was making less each day, and lost 1 to 2 days a week of work. But my bank account was growing, and my debts were getting paid down or off. One every 3 months back then.

It seemed so weird to me, after struggling for so long. I had more money then ever before, even with a cut in pay, and all the while the news stories went on about how terrible things were, and how Bush was the great Satan who destroyed the economy intentionally, and saint Obama had descended from the heavens to save us all... (Oops, a political rant just snuck in.)

It really wasn't the income as much as how I was using it.

Both my Daughter and Son-in-Law graduated from community colleges. Neither one uses credit cards. They both paid off their student loans already, and their used cars were bought for cash.

What is the result of them living like this? They are going to a Caribbean resort later this year, and are paying cash.

If your struggling at $43k, you need to look at what I mentioned above. A common comment people make when they finally get on a budget (it takes a few months to get the hang of it,) is that it feels like they got a raise.

Dave Ramsey is a common name mentioned here. A lot of people follow his real basic financial philosophy. He has his books, tapes, and the he has a seminars, and a class that is taught in many churches. (I can't do the last one myself. They always throw water on me when I enter a church, and that stuff burns.)

But his radio show is free, as is about 40 minutes of his show in a podcast daily. Although many people here already know the basics, and can easily show you if interested. (Requires spouse assistance if you want to stay married.) I cannot see a person struggling who is following his advice at your income. Though he often recommends a second job (or 5) to help pay off debt quicker.

[shepherdsflock]

Mage,

No I have no debt at all. No credit cards, no loans, nothing. I am very familiar with Dave Ramsey and have read his material and follow most of his principles (I disagree on minor points with some of his principles). I'm doing okay on my earnings, supporting a wife and two kids on my income isn't easy but we're making it. However, I'm making nearly twice what most of my friends are making. I'm making the equivalent of $22/hour, most of my friends my age are making around $12/hour. You can't support a family on wages like that. You absolutely MUST have two incomes in your household to make it with wages like that. Even then, with child care running $100-$150 per week per child, you're going to have a real tough time making it with both parents working at that income level.

I think what most people assume when I talk about supporting a family on $40k is that you have TWO people BOTH earning that kind of money. I'm talking about a TOTAL combined household income of $40k. You also don't mention in your post whether or not your daughter and son-in-law have children. If they do, I have serious doubts as to whether they would be taking trips to the Carribean. Yes, my life can mimic your story. We have a significant amount of money saved, even on my income (though the majority of it came from a severance package from a former employer); what I'm talking about though is the AVERAGE person my age, or at least the ones that I am acquainted with in my region of the country. Most of them don't make nearly as much as I do, unless they are engineers, doctors, or something like that. If they are average joes working in factories or retail or something like that, or even low level management positions, they don't make that much.

Also, comparing the cost of a house to the cost of a reciprocating saw or cell phone is an apples to airplanes comparison. I need a reciprocating saw about once every ten years. I would never bother buying one when I know several people who have one collecting dust in their garage who would loan it to me for an afternoon for free. Cell phone is a little different, I wouldn't call it a necessity, but it is hard not to have one. For us, a cell phone is cheaper than a land line. My brother in law works for Verizon and the whole family is on an employee family plan that is 50% discounted. My phone is the most basic, cheap one they had at the time I got it. No data plan, nothing fancy, just something to be able to make and receive calls. However, a house or some kind of place to live is a necessity. This is what eats up your standard of living, the things that you CAN'T do without. There are different price ranges on houses, and everybody is responsible to shop within their budget. But let's say your budget only allows for $550/month? How much house do you think you can buy for that kind of money? Because of a gift from my in-laws, we have $50,000 to put down on a house. Even with that kind of down payment, the maximum we can afford and stay within our budget is about $110,000. There are some okay houses in that price range in my area. Now let's say you make $12/hour. Even with $50k to put down, you might be able to afford $75k. Maybe. Any houses in my area that are selling for $75k need substantial amounts of work and are located in high crime areas. Same with apartments. Finding an apartment with rent less than $800/month puts you in the high crime areas and you're limited to two bedrooms. You better not have more than one or two kids.

My point is, yes, you are correct, luxuries like reciprocating saws and electronic gadgets have become very cheap, but necessities like housing and food have gotten more expensive. We don't buy things we don't need. We don't even own a television. Luxury items are just the junk that we throw our money away on after we've met our basic needs. But what if meeting your basic needs is borderline impossible without outside help? This is what most of the young people I know are facing. I know young couples who are just like us as far as how they run their budgets, they don't have credit cards, they have no loans, etc. but their income simply isn't enough to meet all of their needs. That is why they have WIC, Medicaid, food stamps, or other forms of government support every month. They wouldn't make it without it. And these are not lazy people. Many, if not most, of these people work a full time job plus a part time job. I see very few people in their 40s and 50s needing to do this. Only people in their 20s, maybe a few in their 30s.

For the record, I'm not complaining about my lot in life. I'm doing relatively well. What I'm saying is that the people of my generation, for the most part, aren't doing as well as I am. If it's a stretch for my family to make it on $43k per year, how would you make it on $24k per year? And how are you going to be encouraged to be a hard worker if you walk into, say, the Whirlpool factory near my hometown, where they have a two tier wage scale? If you've been there for more than 20 years, you're making about $20/hour; but if you are a new hire they start you at $12 and cap the wages for everyone hired after a certain date at $15 (which you won't reach for about 10 years) [that may not be best example, since they're shutting down that factory to move out of the country]. How is it encouraging to know that there are many places that have deliberately lowered the wages for new hires and made it impossible to make as much as the older crowd? This is the kind of stuff the young generation is facing. The deliberate lowering of wages and wage and salary caps that prevent them from going over a certain a level that used to be attainable.

Seeing things like this makes the young generation feel bitter and resentful toward the older generation, the generation that they are working for. I don't feel this way, but I can understand how many of my generation could feel this way. This is why, if you're an employer or manager or somebody in a position to hire and manage people, you must make an effort to understand the mindset of the young generation. They are very smart and talented, but unmotivated because from all outward appearances working hard isn't rewarded. They need to be shown that hard work is rewarding and they need only one person they work for at some point in their young lives to set that example.

[rdendy]

Mage,

No I have no debt at all. No credit cards, no loans, nothing. I am very familiar with Dave Ramsey and have read his material and follow most of his principles (I disagree on minor points with some of his principles). I'm doing okay on my earnings, supporting a wife and two kids on my income isn't easy but we're making it. However, I'm making nearly twice what most of my friends are making. I'm making the equivalent of $22/hour, most of my friends my age are making around $12/hour. You can't support a family on wages like that. You absolutely MUST have two incomes in your household to make it with wages like that. Even then, with child care running $100-$150 per week per child, you're going to have a real tough time making it with both parents working at that income level.

I think what most people assume when I talk about supporting a family on $40k is that you have TWO people BOTH earning that kind of money. I'm talking about a TOTAL combined household income of $40k. You also don't mention in your post whether or not your daughter and son-in-law have children. If they do, I have serious doubts as to whether they would be taking trips to the Carribean. Yes, my life can mimic your story. We have a significant amount of money saved, even on my income (though the majority of it came from a severance package from a former employer); what I'm talking about though is the AVERAGE person my age, or at least the ones that I am acquainted with in my region of the country. Most of them don't make nearly as much as I do, unless they are engineers, doctors, or something like that. If they are average joes working in factories or retail or something like that, or even low level management positions, they don't make that much.

Also, comparing the cost of a house to the cost of a reciprocating saw or cell phone is an apples to airplanes comparison. I need a reciprocating saw about once every ten years. I would never bother buying one when I know several people who have one collecting dust in their garage who would loan it to me for an afternoon for free. Cell phone is a little different, I wouldn't call it a necessity, but it is hard not to have one. For us, a cell phone is cheaper than a land line. My brother in law works for Verizon and the whole family is on an employee family plan that is 50% discounted. My phone is the most basic, cheap one they had at the time I got it. No data plan, nothing fancy, just something to be able to make and receive calls. However, a house or some kind of place to live is a necessity. This is what eats up your standard of living, the things that you CAN'T do without. There are different price ranges on houses, and everybody is responsible to shop within their budget. But let's say your budget only allows for $550/month? How much house do you think you can buy for that kind of money? Because of a gift from my in-laws, we have $50,000 to put down on a house. Even with that kind of down payment, the maximum we can afford and stay within our budget is about $110,000. There are some okay houses in that price range in my area. Now let's say you make $12/hour. Even with $50k to put down, you might be able to afford $75k. Maybe. Any houses in my area that are selling for $75k need substantial amounts of work and are located in high crime areas. Same with apartments. Finding an apartment with rent less than $800/month puts you in the high crime areas and you're limited to two bedrooms. You better not have more than one or two kids.

My point is, yes, you are correct, luxuries like reciprocating saws and electronic gadgets have become very cheap, but necessities like housing and food have gotten more expensive. We don't buy things we don't need. We don't even own a television. Luxury items are just the junk that we throw our money away on after we've met our basic needs. But what if meeting your basic needs is borderline impossible without outside help? This is what most of the young people I know are facing. I know young couples who are just like us as far as how they run their budgets, they don't have credit cards, they have no loans, etc. but their income simply isn't enough to meet all of their needs. That is why they have WIC, Medicaid, food stamps, or other forms of government support every month. They wouldn't make it without it. And these are not lazy people. Many, if not most, of these people work a full time job plus a part time job. I see very few people in their 40s and 50s needing to do this. Only people in their 20s, maybe a few in their 30s.

For the record, I'm not complaining about my lot in life. I'm doing relatively well. What I'm saying is that the people of my generation, for the most part, aren't doing as well as I am. If it's a stretch for my family to make it on $43k per year, how would you make it on $24k per year? And how are you going to be encouraged to be a hard worker if you walk into, say, the Whirlpool factory near my hometown, where they have a two tier wage scale? If you've been there for more than 20 years, you're making about $20/hour; but if you are a new hire they start you at $12 and cap the wages for everyone hired after a certain date at $15 (which you won't reach for about 10 years) [that may not be best example, since they're shutting down that factory to move out of the country]. How is it encouraging to know that there are many places that have deliberately lowered the wages for new hires and made it impossible to make as much as the older crowd? This is the kind of stuff the young generation is facing. The deliberate lowering of wages and wage and salary caps that prevent them from going over a certain a level that used to be attainable.

Seeing things like this makes the young generation feel bitter and resentful toward the older generation, the generation that they are working for. I don't feel this way, but I can understand how many of my generation could feel this way. This is why, if you're an employer or manager or somebody in a position to hire and manage people, you must make an effort to understand the mindset of the young generation. They are very smart and talented, but unmotivated because from all outward appearances working hard isn't rewarded. They need to be shown that hard work is rewarding and they need only one person they work for at some point in their young lives to set that example.

I think your post illustrates the whole point about Y feeling entitled. They are envious and upset because they can't get jobs making great money and that the money is all controlled by the older generation. Even your post gives them excuses and takes no personal responsibility. First no one walks into a job making as much as older and more experienced employees, so it's natural that they start lower on the pay scale, all generations before them started that way, it's just how it works. As for the personal responsibility, if I only made $12 an hour you better believe I would find a way to improve that situation, education a trade, two jobs....something. Older generations had that mind set and for the most part we acted on it. Gen Y doesn't want to say "hey it's my fault I can't make more than X, I need to do something about that", they only see it as unfair and want it given to them because it's unfair.

Now I am not pointing a finger at you, it sounds like you have your stuff together and have the attitude of an older generation, and I say good for you for that! But making excuses and explaining why they feel that way isn't fixing the problem, it is in fact perpetuating it because you are giving them an excuse for why their attitude is understandable and OK. Next time one of your friends not making much starts complaining tell him "Suck it up cupcake and do something about it, go to school , get a different job, get two jobs and save till you can open your own business, do something...anything to change your life because complaining about what others have and how bad you have it isn't going to change your situation"

[dogcow]

For us, a cell phone is cheaper than a land line. My brother in law works for Verizon and the whole family is on an employee family plan that is 50% discounted. My phone is the most basic, cheap one they had at the time I got it. No data plan, nothing fancy, just something to be able to make and receive calls.

but you've just admitted my point. in 1984 your family had one phone....now you're whole family has their own phones, and its actually cheaper. this improvement is both quantitative (number of phones for the money) and qualitative...in that when your car breaks down in a bad neighborhood you can actually call someone instead of wandering around hoping to find a working payphone.

However, a house or some kind of place to live is a necessity. This is what eats up your standard of living, the things that you CAN'T do without. There are different price ranges on houses, and everybody is responsible to shop within their budget. But let's say your budget only allows for $550/month? How much house do you think you can buy for that kind of money?

i have a 3/2 1400sq ft house and my mortgage, w/ tax and insurance escrow is 440/mo

you can buy some 2/1 condos for 10-15k even in a more metropolitan area of florida like fort lauderdale

due to the economy the rental market is wide open with $550/mo you could

rent just about anything short of of a mcmansion in this area.

My point is, yes, you are correct, luxuries like reciprocating saws and electronic gadgets have become very cheap, but necessities like housing and food have gotten more expensive.

but their income simply isn't enough to meet all of their needs. That is why they have WIC, Medicaid, food stamps, or other forms of government support every month. They wouldn't make it without it. And these are not lazy people. Many, if not most, of these people work a full time job plus a part time job. I see very few people in their 40s and 50s needing to do this. Only people in their 20s, maybe a few in their 30s.

no my point was that things people would have considered luxuries 30yrs ago are now

considered necessities. people see prices of some things going up but dont realize how much

better their lives are now than 30yrs ago. people's needs have changed

as for food prices, take a look at the charting of food price inflation , you can see price inflation

has actually SLOWED over the past 30yrs especially in the 1990s-mid 2000s not increased.

.

[Cvbabcock]

My father was a baby boomer... I am a Y. My dad worked 3 to 4 jobs, to give me, my other five siblings and my mom an okay life. My dad never really made any money till he was in his late 40's. At the nice age of 28 I am making what my dad made at 43 15 years ago. I don’t compare what I make compared to my fathers pay when he was 58 but when he was 28. I make 2x what he did even after inflation. He had 1 kid, a wife and one on the way to support then. I know that my parent’s sacrifice so much for what I have today. I don’t have any former education but I am self taught programmer/analyst. I have spent all my free time self teaching myself. I know my wife and I know we are not a normally 28 yr couple but we both sacrificed a lot to be where we are at today. I worked two jobs till my current job. I am willing to work for what I want. When I was 19 I worked 5 jobs and worked 60 to 80 hours a week. I spent 5 years without health insurance. I think I paid about 3k a year in medical bills for 3 of the 5 years. I dropped out of college.

I think the issue is the people lived through the Great Depression didn’t what their kids to suffer like they did. So they gave them more than they received. The Baby Boomers gave even more. Generation X and Y, more Y than X are products of not having to do much for anything. I guess coming from a poor family and never was given anything cool just what I need in life makes me grateful every day for what I. All I expect from life is the chance for happiness. That is my choice how I find. Maybe that is why I am a simple person to make happy. I do see the different between all my siblings though and what we expect... That is topic for another day.

Hope my ADD wasn’t that bad.

[mission vending]

Mission has a knack for this. It's sort of like a superpower.

LOL!!! It does seem that I've developed a knack for triggering a conversation.... tho I will admit that I am regularly amazed and impressed by the width and depth of the knowledge of our membership here.

[The Mage]

Hey sheperdsflock.

I thought you might be familiar with Dave Ramsey. I also don't fully agree with Dave Ramsey on everything, although that doesn't mean I think he's wrong, just that there are many paths for people to choose. I do have to say that he is at least part of my philosophy right now, and a good starting point for people.

My Daughter does have a 17 month old, and he's in a daycare costing right in the middle of the range you mentioned. They own a house, new construction, but in a small town outside our city. They do both work, though she almost took an offer of dropping to part time to be home more often, but then decided against it.

I have to disagree with what eats up your standard of living. It can be a house. It could also be a car, eating out, coffee, and/or a million other things. It is surprising how a few things can add up. I can drink $90 in AMP (sugar free) in a month. But for $6.88 I could get 50 days worth of caffeine anhydrous (400mg) from WalMart, and wash it down with $2.48 worth of Crystal Light for a month. So I am prepared to dump an $80 expense from my budget if I need to. (Just did the math, and it is actually right above a grand a year. I may need to do this anyway.)

Back to the subject of a house, try to keep your eyes open, possibly for a foreclosure, but there are deals out there for the fixer upper. It's best to find something that needs mostly cosmetic work. You could literally find a house for $65k, spend $20k fixing it up, and make it worth $110k.

Sell the house, roll the profits over into a new place, do the same thing again, possibly with a more expensive house. Repeat this for a few years, and you could end up in a $250k house that really cost you next to nothing.

As far as government assistance, it is one of the worst things to do to a person. So many people are under the impression that it helps people, but it doesn't. And there is plenty of evidence of this.

In the Millionaire Next Door, their research found a correlation between how successful people are, and the amount of help they received from their parents. But it's the opposite of what most people think. The more help a person receives from their parents, financially, the less successful they are financially.

It is a similar fact with businesses. Years (decades) ago I ready a book that mentioned that some businesses fail because they had too much money. Seem logical? But the reasoning was sound. If you didn't have the money, you had to solve your problems with creativity. But the businesses that had the cash could finance out their problems. But that only works until the money runs out.

Right now there are people on assistance who are stuck. I think the term is falling off a cliff. There are people who receive assistance, who know that if they earn a little bit more, they will suddenly lose all their benefits. I saw a story of a woman who convinced her boss to cut her hours just so she could keep qualifying for government benefits. Again this sounds logical, but this means a person is no longer attempting to improve her finances. She has fixed her income at that point. To earn more is to be punished.

Yet if she took that step, she could eventually be making much more. But she will never try. A short amount of pain, but the long term is much better.

Right after marriage I kept asking my parents for financial help here and there. Nothing real substantial mind you, (often just $20,) but I started to figure out that this was holding me back. It left me with the feeling that something was protecting me, there to keep me from failing. And it kept me from trying. The safety net I perceived was actually a roadblock. (And if I knew how my parent's finances really were, I would have never asked.)

There are 2 types of motivation. Toward and away from. They both work, but each is stronger in different people. The carrot and the stick is a great analogy here. The stick has been moved, so people are less motivated to avoid failure. But the stick was never actually removed, it was simply moved. Instead of punishing people for not trying, they get punished if they try too hard. (i.e. loose their benefits.)

But the stuff your saying about all these jobs going overseas, all the people put out of work, the bosses cutting pay, and the comments about this happening to this generation unlike the past. I have been hearing this for over 30 years. I have also found out all of this has been said for much longer then that.

If it was true when they said all this in the 70's when I was a kid, all the jobs should be in China by now. Nobody would be making more then minimum wage today.

I know your trying to be positive about this, posting that you do believe in hard work, and that the younger generation needs to learn that. But it is still sounding quite negative as if these people don't have a choice.

The thing is, I have seen the numbers. The stats, the facts, the reality.

In the short run there can be increases in costs, and reductions in pay. But over the long run, it has been very positive. Things are cheaper, and keep getting cheaper. Incomes are up, not just in raw numbers, but when adjusted for inflation. The big jump in gas prices actually just moved it up to the same percentage of a persons income as it was in the 80's.

The numbers of millionaires increased by 1.2 million from 2009 to 2011. A 12% increase. Much faster then the population is growing.

1.2 million people is not a small number. It is almost the population of North and South Dakota combined. It is 2/3 of my State, Nebraska. It is almost triple the population of Omaha where Warren Buffet lives.

Unfortunately many people look at these people with envy. And it is unfortunate that there is a political party devoted to the promotion of envy. I instead look at these people as inspiration.

I have a friend who learned to fix AC and heaters. What kind of training does that take? I just looked it up, and we are talking 2 years. He built that into a company with employees running around servicing the city. I don't know what his net worth is, (because he could be up to his golpher in debt for all I know,) but he is making a real decent income.

And once again I am writing too much. (Believe it or not, I edited it down.)

[mission vending]

There are people who receive assistance, who know that if they earn a little bit more, they will suddenly lose all their benefits. I saw a story of a woman who convinced her boss to cut her hours just so she could keep qualifying for government benefits. Again this sounds logical, but this means a person is no longer attempting to improve her finances. She has fixed her income at that point. To earn more is to be punished.

Had a guy recently that wanted to work for me but wanted to paid cash or work limited hours so that he wouldn't lose his VA disability benefits.