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Double Head vs Coin Pusher


marzvending

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depends on where you live. In my state it would get you 2-5 years in the pen. I would lay my money on the pusher though. Unless someone has been handpicking and tweaking there route for a few years.

really ?? what state is that?

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10 Double Head Oak Machines One .25 cent the other .50cent vs. ONE coin pusher!! which would make the most in a Month? Jus Curios, HA....

my pushers make about 50 a week minimum ,if u do laundromats u will make a ton more

but they will be subject to vandalism prettyy considerable. if u go into the bad areas, i mean REAL bad

areas u can do way better. guy i bought some pushers off had them in liberty city in miami (if u know the area it is one of the worst ghettos). he was doing about $200 a week gross in c-stores but he had a leg breaker type doing the collections

for him. he sold because he had 8 liners that made about 600-800/wk net so it wasnt worth his time to mess with them anymore. I told him he would make more selling the rest of his pushers as a route instead of pulling them off, i think he was asking about $15,000 for it.

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One pusher is one machine, one location, so all your eggs are in one basket. With the other machines, you have multiple locations. The pusher is electronic, you need a mechanic, or have those skills yourself. You need a pick up, and a way to get it on and off the truck. It requires more frequent servicing, so it is more demanding. I had to have someone work the spots while I was on vacation, or busy with something esle. It was easy for me though, I had some locations with drink machines back then that had to be worked daily, so I had people trained and available working part time all the time.

I had these, and I put prizes in the "flow" along with redeemable poker chips , redeemable at the store for merchandise as a prize.

These machines take a lot of abuse, and when it breaks, you must, in order to compete with other pusher operators, be able to be at the location within 3 hours of a call for service, at all hours.....and believe me, a fake service call can be a set up for robbery....been there, done that, having a gun waved in your face will make you put this sucker up for sale in a hurry! One of my buddies has around 400 juke boxes, pool tables, game machines, and pushers, and all of his route guys have been robbed at least once. he got shot coming out of a location late one night. Hes 6-4 and weighs 250, and you would not want to mess with him.. he grabbed the shooter by the throat, it was ugly......I had bulk machines in that same location, and I never worried, basically no one thought I was taking any real money out of the place...I was very careful, and I used oak cabinet vistas, so I could swap the head and base in a bucket, so no one saw or heard coins rattle.

The pusher wil last, typically, 60-80 months before it has to be retired because it is worn out. The bulk machines, if pro equipment, may last 30 years or more, and they can be re-furbed easily.

Pusher commissions are usually 50 50 splits, so if you gross 200 a week, you take 100, which is at the top of the take, based on my experience. My locations usually averaged $50 a week gross, which was pretty good for the times and the area..

I used both tokens and coins. Only pushers with sliders are technically legal here, but Ive seen both the fixed and moveable shooters. Moveable shooters out perform non moveable shooters, and pushers with stop buttons outgross them all.

These do better in rougher locations around here, and most "nicer" locations wont touch them anyway. I did have a nice big restaurant where I put a flashy one, with nice lights, in with several cranes, it was my nicest pusher location. better bolt these suckers down!!! They will sprout legs, get shaken to bits, etc..You also will have to deal with employees breaking in after hours at some locations. Once I had to pay a bus boy 20 a week to 'watch" my machines at one place...and he did, indeed, help me catch a guy breaking in...a line cook with a tire iron...and remember, the location owner wants the machine fixed immediatly, so you really need a spare machine in case this happens..

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The pusher wil last, typically, 60-80 months before it has to be retired because it is worn out. The bulk machines, if pro equipment, may last 30 years or more, and they can be re-furbed easily.

Pusher commissions are usually 50 50 splits, so if you gross 200 a week, you take 100, which is at the top of the take, based on my experience. My locations usually averaged $50 a week gross, which was pretty good for the times and the area..

If a coin pusher avgs $200 gross per month and avg lifespand is 80 mo that is $16,000 in gross over the life of the game

If a bulk machine avgs $15 a month gross and the lifespand is 30yrs , that is $5,400 over the life of the unit.

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10 Double Head Oak Machines One .25 cent the other .50cent vs. ONE coin pusher!! which would make the most in a Month? Jus Curios, HA....

Coin Pusher will make more. But they are considered gambling and illegal in many states including california and new york.

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lets see, 10 doubles, 20 machines, and you say to use $15 gross as average, Thats 54,000 in 15 years, and you still have machines probably worth what you paid for them 15 years prior ( I bought cabinet vistas in 1976 for $23 each. I sold them in 1998 for...$23 each....)

OK, then, $1100 pusher, its used, so, how long will it work reliably? probably , well, 24-30 months, so 30 months, net 100 a month, say you service at least once a month, thats 30 service calls, versus 15 years, average 6 service cycles a year, so you go 90 times to take 54,000, versus going 30 times to take 3,000

I figure my bulk like this: 25% pays for merchandise and freight, 25% commission, 25% service cost and maintenance, and 25% profit, so I figure 13,500 for me, 13,500 paid to me to maintain a truck, fuel, etc, includes relocation costs, cleaning etc.

On a pusher, its about the same, so 25% is my profit, so Im grossing $6,000, $3,000 to location , and $1,500 for me., and 1,500 for expenses.

SO, I invest $1100, I earn $1,500 in 30 months, or I invest $1100, and I earn $13,500 in 15 years, or 2,250 in 30 months

I would say its a wash on average. Pushers are a very different business however. It is all the grand adventure, so get both!!!

No matter what, spend a little extra, get good equipment., It will out last, and therefore, out perform the cheaper equipment.Dont underestimate the cost of those service calls!!!

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Dont underestimate the cost of those service calls!!!

Nice Post Metro and Amen to the cost of service calls. Nothing like brand new cranes at a bill of $27,000 bucks just to have them suck. I could go on for pages how they suck! :)

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lets see, 10 doubles, 20 machines, and you say to use $15 gross as average, Thats 54,000 in 15 years, and you still have machines probably worth what you paid for them 15 years prior ( I bought cabinet vistas in 1976 for $23 each. I sold them in 1998 for...$23 each....)

OK, then, $1100 pusher, its used, so, how long will it work reliably? probably , well, 24-30 months, so 30 months, net 100 a month, say you service at least once a month, thats 30 service calls, versus 15 years, average 6 service cycles a year, so you go 90 times to take 54,000, versus going 30 times to take 3,000

I figure my bulk like this: 25% pays for merchandise and freight, 25% commission, 25% service cost and maintenance, and 25% profit, so I figure 13,500 for me, 13,500 paid to me to maintain a truck, fuel, etc, includes relocation costs, cleaning etc.

On a pusher, its about the same, so 25% is my profit, so Im grossing $6,000, $3,000 to location , and $1,500 for me., and 1,500 for expenses.

SO, I invest $1100, I earn $1,500 in 30 months, or I invest $1100, and I earn $13,500 in 15 years, or 2,250 in 30 months

I would say its a wash on average. Pushers are a very different business however. It is all the grand adventure, so get both!!!

No matter what, spend a little extra, get good equipment., It will out last, and therefore, out perform the cheaper equipment.Dont underestimate the cost of those service calls!!!

didnt see the OP was *ten* doubles.... or 1 pusher. in fl u can find tons of used mcgreggor copies for $200 or so. i even bought one of rons pushers for $300. yeah they come in pretty beat up but u pop the motor,some wood putty,sanding,painting,and ur ready to go

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lets see, 10 doubles, 20 machines, and you say to use $15 gross as average, Thats 54,000 in 15 years, and you still have machines probably worth what you paid for them 15 years prior ( I bought cabinet vistas in 1976 for $23 each. I sold them in 1998 for...$23 each....)

OK, then, $1100 pusher, its used, so, how long will it work reliably? probably , well, 24-30 months, so 30 months, net 100 a month, say you service at least once a month, thats 30 service calls, versus 15 years, average 6 service cycles a year, so you go 90 times to take 54,000, versus going 30 times to take 3,000

I figure my bulk like this: 25% pays for merchandise and freight, 25% commission, 25% service cost and maintenance, and 25% profit, so I figure 13,500 for me, 13,500 paid to me to maintain a truck, fuel, etc, includes relocation costs, cleaning etc.

On a pusher, its about the same, so 25% is my profit, so Im grossing $6,000, $3,000 to location , and $1,500 for me., and 1,500 for expenses.

SO, I invest $1100, I earn $1,500 in 30 months, or I invest $1100, and I earn $13,500 in 15 years, or 2,250 in 30 months

I would say its a wash on average. Pushers are a very different business however. It is all the grand adventure, so get both!!!

No matter what, spend a little extra, get good equipment., It will out last, and therefore, out perform the cheaper equipment.Dont underestimate the cost of those service calls!!!

wait u are saying ur service cost of 10 machines is the same as 1 pusher because of a longer cycle, that doesnt make sense.

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I have never heard of anybody ever getting jail time for operating pushers,,,cherries and eight liners yeah,,for tax evasion because they where hiding 3 million under their mattress they got 24 months in the country club prison...

every body i have heard of operating pushers where they where illegal mostly got a fine and a warning ..Its all a money thing,the gov could care less about protecting the "innocent" gamblers playing the machines,they only care about it affecting their lottery sales.

A guy in california that operated over 500 pushers had his warehouse seized, all machines destroyed, 18 million in assets frozen etc.. facing time etc... went to court, forfeited the machines in that county (los angeles) and money in the machines when they seized them, signed a paper stating he wouldn't operate pushers anymore and got off with a warning,,and got his money back because he had been paying his taxes. Called me a few weeks later introducing me to his cousin fresh off the boat from india and wanted me to make him a deal on coin pushers!!

the largest operators in the world who do gum ball machines can't scratch a mark on the gambling type machines as far as money goes, be your own judge.. One single casino in one town like say tunica, ms makes more money a year than even the largest bulk operators operating nationwide..

but for your comparison don't look at the money so much as the work..

a pusher only has to be serviced about every 300 bucks in the cashbox, If it makes 50 a week then only service it every 6 weeks...

NOTE TO EVERYBODY---- service cycle on any machine directly correlates with the earning potential of that machine!!! a gum ball machine does not make anymore money if you service it every month and in that particular locations sales ,,it holds 12 months worth of gum! it makes you actually lose money by over servicing machines because it drives up your costs... A pushers earnings are affected by the bait on the play field , the 300 bucks i refer to before is what is usually in the cashbox for all the bait to be pushed off of ledge,,the machine never gets empty of coins as it fills itself every time a coin is inserted,,

My machine is the only one on market still being produced(pot of silver had this option but they no longer build machines) that has a door/lid that has different key than your cashbox for inserting bait,,you can give a key to locations you can trust and they can actually put bait on your play field if you want to extend service cycles,or remotely run a route...(i.e. if a person wanted to put a route in a different state and have local guy just throw bait in machines or unjam coin mechs they could give them that key, then fly down once every 6-8 weeks and get a small rental car at airport and go collect about 20K or so,dump it off at the local BOA branch and fly home,,just a example)

doubles comparison-- a bulk routes average should be taken by the middle six machines,,meaning service 10 machines and the top 2 earners and worst two earners you disregard,,the middle six averaged together will give you your average. This is due to the constantly changing values of the other 4, like one month you lose 2 locations so the bottom 2 are zero but you just landed a great chinese buffet in the same month and it did as much as 4 machines normally would..if you did full 10 machine average you never get a real number in your head..

It is a lot harder to service 10 doubles than servicing one pusher,,locations want pushers because they make money so its easier to place them,,I don't go for crap locations for doubles so my list is short,,i wont place it unless its a restaurant,grocery store,or entertainment place like bowling alley/FEC...I will just keep driving until i get them all placed in these locations,so i might travel large area to get my machines out..

..but really thats the logical choice when your growing,,because when you are growing the biggest obstacle is money for new equipment,not time or gas money to locate..so to get the best ROI you need to not "settle" for some hair salon or similar.....BUT..... If you score a warehouse full of doubles for $5 each with stand like i did a couple years into my bulk venture,then you place them here,there and everywhere like hair nail salons etc..

now lets talk about "honey holes" as I have always heard the term for those great producing stops....I have had a pusher in a discount tobacco/lottery/beer store make over 5K a month for 20 months straight..The manager was never there as he was in his other store and i located it for $100 flat rate a month, so that location was a business in itself...I lost it because the city passed ordinance against the machines,,the police officer told location to remove it by end of month(which is normally what happens when a area changes views on pushers) because the lottery had been lodging complaints..

YOU WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER have any type of gum ball machine score a honey hole amount like a pusher will.. I consider a honey hole account to be over $1000 a month gross,,I would say over half of all the accounts are on $100 flat rate location rent..about 1 out of every 10 pushers will score a honey hole status..

there is no losers in vending unless you are scammed by a "biz op" or you are unable to locate...Locating skills in vending is like a nurse being able to give a shot in someones arm..its the basic skill you must have to be successful..just beware of guys offering to "We will place machines in your area and give you onsite training" etc ..and then only charge you 10 times what they cost on ebay...AKA blue sky promotion!!

your in the right place to find the facts, this is great forum with good moderation by real knowledgeable folks..Ill help you with what ever you decide to do,be it pusher,gum ball, snack soda or whatever..

ron

www.blazingquarters.com

The comprehensive guide to locating vending machines for free.

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I just did some research on my state and found out pushers are illegal. :( We don't have a lottery here either. They're scared someone from the "lower classes" might get lucky. I guess they don't want people going to shiva food mart instead of the casinos. I don't know when they did this because I remember seeing coin pushers around when I was younger.

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so your either in Utah or Hawaii as those are only states without lottery and I know of one huge operator of coin pusher in UT,,and I've sent more than one to hawaii..

I can tell you that most laws are so vague that if you ask someone the first immediate response in normally NO.. then you later see that same person at the local quickie mart putting quarters in one!!

ron

www.blazingquarters.com

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Pushers showed up first around these parts at carnivals and county fairs , and in arcades along the coast. Next, they migrated inland in SC, and then NC, and started showing up along with cranes and other redemption games, and at first, quickly, at a few seedier locations, especially porn stores.

SC is something else. It was possibly the only state in the US that licensed and monitored private scratch off card game operators. ( no more, the state has a lottery now) You still find bingo games, these are sort of like pinball, with no flippers. The location buys back the credits, much like the early versions of poker machines.These have been around since the 1930's Trade stimulator machines are fairly common and open. Licnese fees, both state and local, are steep. I paid around $500 a year in one city for pusher licenses. Competition is stiff.

I found in the markets I serve, that if I tried to extend my service cycle on a pusher, either I greatly increased my break in risk, or I lost the location to another operator that promised the location more frequent serving. The model of a local guy loading the deck, and un jamming coin mechs and you coming in periodicaly and pulling the cash is somewhat common here too, but mostly for sweeps stuff.

The video poker games in NC went "cashless" when they morphed into sweepstakes games, so the validators were removed, and "time" is now purchased from the cashier. Along when this happened, pushers started to disappear from locations. Usually, the space was taken by a sweeps machine. I bought a lot of pushers back then, they were real real cheap and plentiful, but grosses were around 30 to 50 or so a week at most locations.

NC has a host of "Business Centers" that house a bunch of sweepstakes games. These locations are universally scared of coin pushers, they say they bring "heat" on their already somewhat grey area operations.

I scored one by offering them a way to give a token for each 'purchase" that could be dropped in the pusher. I loaded the deck with redeemable poker chips,redeemable for half price tokens, and we did pretty good for six weeks, and then their attorney told them to ditch the pusher.( I used colored tokens, red for half price, gold for free, silver for full price, I settled the account based on bags of tokens sold by price, and I had 2, 3 5 dollar token bags) Prizes, other than play tokens were also redeemed from coded poker chip riders in the flow

I understand the concept of buying used pushers. re-furbishing , and placing, but I will tell you if you do that they darn well better be fully re-built, because if they have the failure rate of an older machine,or they look 'fixed up" you will get bumped off your location for sure. Another operator drops in with a brand new machine, and offers to pay the location owner 100 cash every time the machine goes down for the next 3 months, hes gonna get that location and your re-furbed machine is gone. This is not a business for lipstick on a pig refurbishing efforts, you better get it right.

A smart operator will refurb what is worth re-doing, and sell off the junk.You wind up with "guts and feathers" all of the meat has disappeared.

One other thing I have run into is the civil side of local government, the zoning and code enforcement guys, and even the fire inspectors. These people make it their business to check local licences, so I always buy a coin op amusement device license for the city for a pusher. Otherwise, they will start researching if a pusher is 'legal" If I have a license, and my name is on the machine where they can easily find it, they will call me first. The call goes something like this" hello, Im Joe Busy Body from Anytown, and Im here at the Quickie Mart, and you have this machine here, are these legal in (state) and I always say, The game there at the Quickie Mart is for amusement only, and it meets the standards for a redemption game , like a crane, it isnt set up for anything but fun, and I believe my amusement machine license from The City for that machine is current, would you mind seeing if it visible inside the machine? and they back off politely. It amazes me how a local Sherrif or Police can "decide" if something is going to be in their jurisdiction or not. If you buy a license , and keep your name out front, they will trust you as an expert on the equipment. If you hide, and sneak, and dont buy a license, they will treat you like you are a crook.

I have bought a bunch of local licenses for 250 per machine per year, , this is no small source of revenue for them. Police, generally, hate anything that offers the opportunity to get more than you paid, even lottery scratch offs, because it creates arguments.

I once had to make a regular donation to the local Police Association because of fights, and calls at a place I had pool tables and game machines...........I even sponsored their little league team, and believe me, they helped me . This was my best location.They taught me what they accepted as in house dealing with fights, and we stopped having others call the Police. They also arrested some bad guys at the place, and were fairly suspicious of the whole thing, but we got along.

You need to take a good hard look at the cost to service a location. I am a strong advocate of putting as much equipment on every location as you can, because it costs less money in the end to service the account, and the more frequently you work it, the lower the vandalism effect, fewer break ins, and it is the hardest for another operator to take your location.

The cost to service a stop is about the same , no matter if you go once a week, or 5-6 times a year PER ROUTE STOP.. So, if you service weekly, your service call cost is 25 bucks, then your annual service cost for that stop is $1,300. If you service it 6 times a year, and your cost is 25 bucks, your annual service cost for that location is 150.00 annually. Yes, the cost of servicing multiple machines at one stop increases the value you get from that cost....but, it takes time, and time is money, so it isnt a free ride, just a reduced cost ride. Costs: labor, truck payment, tires, oil, insurance, supplies needed to service that stop, oand general overhead, taxes, insurance.

I cant tell you how many "routes" I have bought from small guys that figured out they were paying for the privlidge of operating machines.....

There is an operator in a county of about 125,000 about an hour from me. He has full line vending in factories,the hospital, the community college, etc. He is also an amusement street operator, he has bulk machines, He used to have 350 cigarette machines, he operates a charity bulk route for a local charity,( and gets articles in the newspaper every year about it, last year, he said they had 2,500 machines placed for that charity, that seems impossible in a community of 125,000 people.. He had a picture in the article showing some kids presenting the hospital charity with a check for $95,000, their share of the proceeds....he has vacuums at service stations. All of his equipment is all clearly identified with his company. He has pushers, sweepstakes machines, scales, kiddie rides, the list goes on. If it takes a coin, he has it, or will get it. He has pencil machines in the library and schools. BUT, he doesnt go out of the county . You cant crack this town for nothin. Either he has the location, or the location doesnt want anything. I tried for weeks to crack the market, and I never got a location placed. He makes all kinds of charitable donations, His staff does meals on wheels, they wear uniforms, he has sales reps, very organized. They are members of Rotary, Lions, the Hosptial Auxillary, the Boys and Girls Club, etc etc He co-sponsors, with the location, little league teams. I went in 15-20 locations, and on the wall at every location was years worth of appreciation certificates for his company AND the location..... I even crossd paths with his staff while calling on locations. They were very nice and gracious, and wished me luck, but they also said they really worked hard to be the go to people for all things coin operated in their area. I figured Id find somebody that didnt like them, or resented them having such a hold on the community, and it just wasnt there. I gave up when I went to an apartment complex operated by a large national leasing company, and they had the coin operated washers and dryers in the laundry room.....and, of course, a double stand with two charity machines...

By the way, I met him later at a a machine demonstration at a vending machine supply house, and he was really very nice, He told me his goal was 1% of gross sales for profit, after all expenses, including his salary and benefits were paid. I get the feeling this is fairly standard in the industry for operators working in the 350 and up machine range for amusement and full line. He wound up giving me a neat antique peanut machine ...we traded business cards, and it showed up with a real nice note at my place about a month later.....

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I understand the concept of buying used pushers. re-furbishing , and placing, but I will tell you if you do that they darn well better be fully re-built, because if they have the failure rate of an older machine,or they look 'fixed up" you will get bumped off your location for sure. Another operator drops in with a brand new machine, and offers to pay the location owner 100 cash every time the machine goes down for the next 3 months, hes gonna get that location and your re-furbed machine is gone. This is not a business for lipstick on a pig refurbishing efforts, you better get it right.

must depend on the market ,here the biggest competition is craigs list. pretty much every gravy pusher account

buys there own pusher (c-stores in the ghetto, laundromats,etc..) sso you are going in to an account that is making

$50-100 a week and you say hey how about i give you $25-100 a week. since the mechanics of the machine are so

simple theres almost never service issues so the location just has no reason not to own it themselves . they just

throw you out. the only way to get the acct is if you have some kind of unique thing that can make more money.

on the flip side these crane accts are usually dead simple to get. my favorite thing to see is a laundromat that has

their own crane game because usually its not working right or its merchandised badly. and ill just give them $200-300

for the old crane and bring in a nice import crane or refurb united machine and show them i can make better money

with less hassle.

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