2nd experience with Kickstart

[Action Vending]

IMO, it's not that someone can't make a living using a u-turn, it's just a little harder to do so...and here's why:

In order to make a living with bulk you have to be able to get into all kinds of different locations.

So, you would want to carry the most flexible equipment you can.

Some locations can only support a single, others a double or triple, and then, of course, some require a rack with multiple heads on it.

With something like a u-turn or a triple like a Vendstar, you don't have much flexibility.

The locations you find for those machines MUST support at least a triple because you can't break them down to a single or double.

And if you place a triple or u-turn in a place better suited for a single or double, you are going to lose your rear-end in product waste.

The single/stand-alone head like those offered by Oak, NW, A&A, Beaver, etc gives you flexibility.

You can vary the number of selections you offer from location to location.

The same machine/head you use in a single-only location today, can be mounted onto a rack to serve a bigger-better location tomorrow if needed.

Not saying you can't have some triples or u-turns.

But, I wouldn't recommend you use them exclusively or even predominantly because of the limitations I've outlined above.

If you plan on going full-time or making a good living, limiting how you can set-up your equipment is only going to limit the number of locations you can accommodate...and doing that will only limit your income and growth potential.

With the right equipment, you can turn singles into a double, triple, or a rack...or break a rack down into triples, doubles, or singles...and it only takes minutes to do so.

You can't do nearly as much with a triple or u-turn.

Without being flexible, you just aren't going to be capable of getting into as many locations as one who is.

Exactly well said. That was basically a great explanation to my previous post. Those are the reasons many (all that I have personally seen and heard of) of the big operators use single heads. Not to mention that it is hard if not impossible for most triples and uturns to be configured to vend capsules, candy and gumballs. With most singular heads it takes 30 seconds to switch between the too. Also in this business time is everything. Wile you are servicing your uturn i am done at the same location and the next one and soliciting a new location to put more machines.

The other benefit is that it is nice to have one brand and model machine because parts are interchangeable and available. Again this saves time, less parts to carry and everything is uniform.

[Jax Snacks]

Without being flexible, you just aren't going to be capable of getting into as many locations as one who is.

Yes, the key word there is - Flexibility!

You may have nothing to compare them to since you are just getting started....or in other words you don't know any better. We were all there at one time.

Yes, vending is evolutionary. Thank you Mr. Darwin!

[kandyking]

Allow me to clarify:

I have a handful of single and double heads used to get my foot in the door. After 3 months I tell them that I can "upgrade" them to a triple head machine that is roughly the same size but with more options of candy. Normally they accept, if not, they are reviewed and most of the time the machine is pulled. I keep my routes streamlined with one type of machine so my techs have the ability to service rapidly. My preference was the 1800 due to the fact that you can easily change out the canisters, the sturdy construction and the availability of used machines at great prices. I also have racks but find that my most rapid form of expansion was with the 1800 triples. I can not find a locator who does racks so I am forced to wait until a quality location of mine proves worthy of an upgrade and then I personally go in and make the pitch.

[shepherdsflock]

I agree with KandyKing. 1800 triples are super versatile and allow you to test the waters for both candy and toys. If you get a real winner of a location, then you can upgrade to a rack; and you would already have a good idea of what will sell there if you've tested out different candies and toys with the triple.

[indiana]

KandyKing, thank you for this advice. It couldn't come at a better time. I'm currently looking to get started in the bulk vending business, with high hopes of being able to expand throughout the year (and every year)!

The availability of used machines and time needed to service/ change canisters is important to me.

I think I'll look at picking up a few used 1800 triples. Thanks.

[sherlock]

I think I'll look at picking up a few used 1800 triples. Thanks.

Just out of curiosity: What can a 1800 do for you that 3 singles can't?

I only want to make sure you think this through...because there are a lot of things that 3 single heads can do that a triple like a 1800 can't.

[sherlock]

Allow me to clarify:

I have a handful of single and double heads used to get my foot in the door. After 3 months I tell them that I can "upgrade" them to a triple head machine that is roughly the same size but with more options of candy. Normally they accept, if not, they are reviewed and most of the time the machine is pulled. I keep my routes streamlined with one type of machine so my techs have the ability to service rapidly. My preference was the 1800 due to the fact that you can easily change out the canisters, the sturdy construction and the availability of used machines at great prices. I also have racks but find that my most rapid form of expansion was with the 1800 triples. I can not find a locator who does racks so I am forced to wait until a quality location of mine proves worthy of an upgrade and then I personally go in and make the pitch.

You don't really keep your route "streamlined with only one type of machine" if you own some single and double heads to test waters AND own 1800 triples for when you are ready to upgrade.

It's your call and none of my business...but, single heads can be assembled in so many different configurations, there's really no better choice if one truly wants to streamline their route to one type of machine AND be able to get into as many different locations as possible.

[kandyking]

You don't really keep your route "streamlined with only one type of machine" if you own some single and double heads to test waters AND own 1800 triples for when you are ready to upgrade.

It's your call and none of my business...but, single heads can be assembled in so many different configurations, there's really no better choice if one truly wants to streamline their route to one type of machine AND be able to get into as many different locations as possible.

I usually have no more than 3 or 4 singles or doubles out at any given time and reserve them for locations that look promising but initially refuse a triple. I looked at doing the single heads in different configs but the price point on those machines were just so much higher that I couldn't justify it. How much do you pay for a triple config with stand? I have found them to be more attractive, more versatile but also cost prohibitive. My business model allows for a triple head purchased, filled, located and delivered for under $100. I just can't come close to those numbers with the single heads.

[indiana]

Just out of curiosity: What can a 1800 do for you that 3 singles can't?

I only want to make sure you think this through...because there are a lot of things that 3 single heads can do that a triple like a 1800 can't.

That's a good point; I assumed that a triple head would potentially make more, given the variety of product it offers. I also like the price point of used machines--there seem to be a lot of 1800s and Vendstar 3000s available.

Would you recommend more single heads? Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks!

[sherlock]

I usually have no more than 3 or 4 singles or doubles out at any given time and reserve them for locations that look promising but initially refuse a triple. I looked at doing the single heads in different configs but the price point on those machines were just so much higher that I couldn't justify it. How much do you pay for a triple config with stand? I have found them to be more attractive, more versatile but also cost prohibitive. My business model allows for a triple head purchased, filled, located and delivered for under $100. I just can't come close to those numbers with the single heads.

My costs are not necessarily the cheapest because, unless I am buying equipment as part of a route, I only buy new.

But, you can do like many successful vendors and go the used route.

Bulk machines by NW, A&A, and OAK can be found used.

However, putting together 3 singles by those mfr's to make a triple will STILL come out to over the $100 per triple (filled and located) that you pay.

But, up front cost can't be the entire story here.

If you plan to make this a growing and successful business, I recommend a vendor view a bulk machine like you would a work vehicle.

If I were looking to buy a work vehicle to use for my growing bulk route, I could easily save money by buying a 2-door Honda Civic vs a cargo van. But, I would sure be limiting myself by using that little Civic over the van.

Using the Civic, I am not able to carry the same amount of product, same number or size of machines, or cover as many locations per trip as I would if I used a cargo van instead.

In my example, like in our discussion regarding machines, my relying on the Civic may have saved me money up front, but choosing a Civic over a cargo van really limits how much I can do with my route.

A single head from A&A, OAK, or NW is like the cargo van...a triple like those from 1800 or Vendstar is the Civic.

Both can be reliable and both can sustain a vending route...but experience will dictate that the van is better suited for the job if you plan on growing your business EFFICIENTLY and TO IT'S FULL POTENTIAL.

[indiana]

Sherlock, thanks for your comments on this. Can you elaborate more on what specific benefits the single heads provide relative to the 1800/3000 triples?

With your cargo van example, I'm assuming the singles can outperform or otherwise provide greater benefit that the triples?

[sherlock]

That's a good point; I assumed that a triple head would potentially make more, given the variety of product it offers. I also like the price point of used machines--there seem to be a lot of 1800s and Vendstar 3000s available.

Would you recommend more single heads? Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks!

More variety does not often equal more money.

There are usually only so many quarters in a location.

Our job is to get as many of those quarters as possible...but a lot of times getting the maximum number of quarters comes down to WHAT we offer, not HOW MUCH VARIETY we offer.

Please, see my reply to Kandy King above for my advice on singles and "price-point" management.

You ever wonder WHY there are so many more triples available? Could be that some folks realized their shortcomings?

Best of luck no matter what you choose!

[shepherdsflock]

The only advantages I see of a three head single stand is that you're not limited to candy, gumballs and 1" toys; you could mount a sticker or 2" capsule head on it, and that the heads could be removed and added to a larger rack at some point. Otherwise I don't see any big advantages over a 1800 triple. The 1800 triple is lighter, easier to service, takes up less room, and can vend candy, gumballs, bouncy balls, and 1" toys at 25 cents or 50 cents. Some people seem to be amazing bargain hunters, so I won't make any arguments about either machines being cheaper, but in my experience the 1800 triple tends to be a great value for the money.

[indiana]

Got it. Thank you.

I'm new--at this time, I'm just trying to figure out what machines are going to end up being the best investment for developing my bulk route.

Obviously, as everyone notes, there are an awful lot of variables to consider--initial price point, durability, ease/time to service, capacity, etc.

[sherlock]

The only advantages I see of a three head single stand is that you're not limited to candy, gumballs and 1" toys; you could mount a sticker or 2" capsule head on it, and that the heads could be removed and added to a larger rack at some point. Otherwise I don't see any big advantages over a 1800 triple. The 1800 triple is lighter, easier to service, takes up less room, and can vend candy, gumballs, bouncy balls, and 1" toys at 25 cents or 50 cents. Some people seem to be amazing bargain hunters, so I won't make any arguments about either machines being cheaper, but in my experience the 1800 triple tends to be a great value for the money.

Those advantages you list for the single heads are pretty BIG compared to the rather minor advantages of a triple...especially when you consider that "easier to service" is not really an issue because the degree of difficulty becomes almost zero servicing any bulk machine once you gain experience with it.

Not to mention, if a vendor is going to worry about what "takes up less room", then wouldn't he/she want the machine that can be broken down into a single or double when space is really limited?

But, again...to each his own.

I've done too much to hi-jack this thread...I think I've said all I can say on this thread.

My apologies to the original poster (shepherdsflock) for getting so far off track.

[kandyking]

My costs are not necessarily the cheapest because, unless I am buying equipment as part of a route, I only buy new.

But, you can do like many successful vendors and go the used route.

Bulk machines by NW, A&A, and OAK can be found used.

However, putting together 3 singles by those mfr's to make a triple will STILL come out to over the $100 per triple (filled and located) that you pay.

But, up front cost can't be the entire story here.

If you plan to make this a growing and successful business, I recommend a vendor view a bulk machine like you would a work vehicle.

If I were looking to buy a work vehicle to use for my growing bulk route, I could easily save money by buying a 2-door Honda Civic vs a cargo van. But, I would sure be limiting myself by using that little Civic over the van.

Using the Civic, I am not able to carry the same amount of product, same number or size of machines, or cover as many locations per trip as I would if I used a cargo van instead.

In my example, like in our discussion regarding machines, my relying on the Civic may have saved me money up front, but choosing a Civic over a cargo van really limits how much I can do with my route.

A single head from A&A, OAK, or NW is like the cargo van...a triple like those from 1800 or Vendstar is the Civic.

Both can be reliable and both can sustain a vending route...but experience will dictate that the van is better suited for the job if you plan on growing your business EFFICIENTLY and TO IT'S FULL POTENTIAL.

I prefer to look at it more like buying a cargo van or a fully loaded cargo van. They both do the same things that I require but one of them does a bunch of stuff my business does not require for an additional cost. It is like buying a computer with the sole intent of writing letters on microsoft word and printing them out. You could have easily purchased a typewriter for a fraction of the price and it would do everything you require. Everyone has their flavor of choice and I am glad yours differs from mine . . . that leaves more of them available for me to gobble up.

The moral of the story Sherlock is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I know a man with a fleet of vendstars. I personally hate them but he clears 6 figures a year and grows his business exponentially on an annual basis because his up front cost is even cheaper than mine.

[indiana]

Not to ask for your trade secrets, but if you could provide some tips on how to acquire used machines, fill them and locate them for under $100 each I would appreciate it!

[will.vend]

Kandy king help me understand a few things...just to clarify

You have route people?

You mainly use triples?

You are vending candy primarily?

You pay a locator to find locations?

Are you working this fulltime?

You are buying, filling and locating triples for under $100.00?

[kandyking]

Kandy king help me understand a few things...just to clarify

You have route people? Yes

You mainly use triples? Yes

You are vending candy primarily? Yes

You pay a locator to find locations? Yes

Are you working this fulltime? No, my primary business is Real Estate. I own a hand full plazas in the South Florida area and I manage them. This is more of a secondary business that I saw opportunity in to make an extra few grand a month.

You are buying, filling and locating triples for under $100.00? Yes

[Action Vending]

how many machines do you operate kandy?

[Erosenlieb]

OK after reading this post i would just like to add something. I did not build this nor do i take credit for it. I bought this off a fellow member here. Hopefully after you see this you will think a 1-800 is a little more versatile. I will be doing two toy mixes on the top outsides and a premium toy in the center for 50c. The bottom will all be candy. Also as far as i know they do not make a rack this small for singles that can fit 6 selection.

[kandyking]

Love it. How much did you pay for it and what frame is it built on? How are the machines bolted to the stands? Can who ever built this post the link to the stand. Can you take more pics of the underneath of the stand so we can see how it is attached

[shepherdsflock]

With coin tray access on the rear of the 1800 machines, I would definitely have some caster wheels on that thing so I could move it to access the back. Otherwise, that rack setup would suck to service and you'd have to be really careful not to damage the location's floor dragging that thing out away from the wall.

[Erosenlieb]

With coin tray access on the rear of the 1800 machines, I would definitely have some caster wheels on that thing so I could move it to access the back. Otherwise, that rack setup would suck to service and you'd have to be really careful not to damage the location's floor dragging that thing out away from the wall.

it has wheels just took them off for the truck ride home

[shepherdsflock]

In that case, it would be pretty cool. If I had a location where I had enough traffic to justify six heads, it would probably be a cheap alternative to a traditional six-way rack.