Old Navy?

[manedon]

Hello everybody. I placed a charity triple in two Old Navy breakrooms a couple of months ago and I recently got an email from somebody claiming to be from All Vend Management vending company. They said that they had the national contract with Old Navy and that I had to remove my quarter machines immediately. I ignored the first email, and about a week later got another that said they have contacted the store managers and that they said the machines are taking up too much space and they want them removed. I had permission from both store managers to place the machines and have not heard anything directly from them stating that I had to remove them. What do you guys think? Should I just ignore this person and see what happens, or should I go ahead and remove them? Thank you

[musser]

Allvend is a legit Vend Managment Company, call or google them and verify if they do indeed have a contract. They probably do and you are out of luck.

Its amazing the number of managers that don't know what vendors their store has contracted.

And don't be mad at the guys holding the contract. If you knew the terms of some of these contracts you would be sending the vending company a get well card. Margins on some of these deals are very thin and every penny counts.

[kandyking]

I wouldn't remove a thing until the store manager or someone from Old Navy contacted me and even then I would try everything to not lose the location.

[havending]

I wouldn't remove a thing until the store manager or someone from Old Navy contacted me and even then I would try everything to not lose the location.

The store manager has no control over the vending contracts. They are set up by corp. You have been contacted by the company that owns the contract to remove your machines twice if I were you I would go get them now or you may find them tossed out. Why do charity operators think that they can ignore the contracted operator? And just keep it there longer. There is a huge expence when when an operator takes on a corp account. You have to agree to multiple locations and often buy new equipment. So what give a charity guy the right to pretend its ok to keep his machine. Keep in mind these store managers in nearly every corp location do not have the authority to let you in.

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Allvend is a legit Vend Managment Company, call or google them and verify if they do indeed have a contract. They probably do and you are out of luck.

Its amazing the number of managers that don't know what vendors their store has contracted.

And don't be mad at the guys holding the contract. If you knew the terms of some of these contracts you would be sending the vending company a get well card. Margins on some of these deals are very thin and every penny counts.

So you feel my pain

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[kandyking]

The "company that owns the contract" is my direct competitor and, as such, I can not take what they say at face value. The onus is on them to prove that they do, indeed, have an exclusive contract to that store. An easy way to do that would be to send that email that they are spamming me with to Old Navy so they can live up to their end of the contract by telling me I have to leave.

If I did not wait for confirmation from Old Navy, what stops any unscrupulous vendor from firing off emails demanding that I remove my equipment from a location and claiming an exclusive whether they have it or not. Who would possibly allow their competition to dictate who gets to have a location without first hearing from the location in question? I would not be in violation of a contract held between All Vend Management and Old Navy by having my machine there. Old Navy would have violated it by allowing me into their store and thus eliminating the exclusivity. The burden now falls on Old Navy to require that I remove the machine.

I understand the expense that comes with getting a national contract. You get new equipment, a large slice of the pie goes to the house, the labor to install . . . all I am saying is that Old Navy should earn their share by honoring the contract and notifying other vendors to leave. Without that notice, as far as I am concerned, it is fair game.

[havending]

What's fair about a charity guy donating a buck a month and the operator who followed proper chanels kicking up 40% if you want to vend in old navy contact them the right way and pick up as many as are in your service area. But don't use a locator who gets pay on the "yes" no matter who gives it. I know guys who will toss a tripple in the dumpster. In a buffet once I had a contract and a tripple showed up so I lowered my rate to 5% because they broke the contract. The Chinese guy took the tripple to the kitchen superfast. The contract owner has no burden to prove anything to some one with out a contract. No proper permission, no contract how could you have any rights to the location. Old navy signed over the vending rights to the management company so its up to the management company to boot you not old navy. Once you start to become involved with management contracts and read them you will understand what I'm saying

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[kandyking]

I fully understand the intricacies of the management contract. Where you and I have a divergence of opinion is that you expect me to honor a contract that I never signed. If I never signed the contract, it is not my issue. It is a contract between the contract vendor and the location.

What's fair about a charity guy donating a buck a month and the operator who followed proper chanels kicking up 40% if you want to vend in old navy contact them the right way and pick up as many as are in your service area. But don't use a locator who gets pay on the "yes" no matter who gives it.

Who is to say what the "Right way" is to get a machine in Old Navy. Seemingly we both managed to do it and I did it without kicking 40% upstairs. If you ask me, mine is the right way. You are correct, the contract vendor has no burden to prove that the location is his . . . unless he expects me to relinquish it. At that point, he needs to either A) Get the location to ask me to remove my machine or B ) steal or vandalize my machine by disposing of it.

If the "contract" vendor or the store choses to destroy or dispose of my property then I ask you, which one of us is not being "fair". Even if it does get tossed, the cost of the machine is recouped within the first 2 months at an average location. My agreement is with Old Navy, not with the contract vendor. Because the contract vendor kicks 40% to Old Navy, they should pressure Old Navy to live up to the contract and throw the charity vendors out. You can not expect me to pack up my machine and leave because my competitor asked me to. If the location asks me to, now that is a different story. If the contract vendor now has the ability to speak on behalf of the location, I would either need to see a contract that proves that or hear it directly from the location. Either way, I am not walking away from a location based on the word of a competitor.

[dogcow]

I fully understand the intricacies of the management contract. Where you and I have a divergence of opinion is that you expect me to honor a contract that I never signed. If I never signed the contract, it is not my issue. It is a contract between the contract vendor and the location.

Who is to say what the "Right way" is to get a machine in Old Navy. Seemingly we both managed to do it and I did it without kicking 40% upstairs. If you ask me, mine is the right way. You are correct, the contract vendor has no burden to prove that the location is his . . . unless he expects me to relinquish it. At that point, he needs to either A) Get the location to ask me to remove my machine or B ) steal or vandalize my machine by disposing of it.

If the "contract" vendor or the store choses to destroy or dispose of my property then I ask you, which one of us is not being "fair". Even if it does get tossed, the cost of the machine is recouped within the first 2 months at an average location. My agreement is with Old Navy, not with the contract vendor. Because the contract vendor kicks 40% to Old Navy, they should pressure Old Navy to live up to the contract and throw the charity vendors out. You can not expect me to pack up my machine and leave because my competitor asked me to. If the location asks me to, now that is a different story. If the contract vendor now has the ability to speak on behalf of the location, I would either need to see a contract that proves that or hear it directly from the location. Either way, I am not walking away from a location based on the word of a competitor.

someone comes to rent a store in one of your properties. you hammer out a deal with the lessee and the deal is a done. a few days later the lessee returns and informs you someone is already using the store. he has been using the storefront for a few years unbeknownst to you and you never received any rent. the lessee says he told the tenant to beat it but the tenant said "why should i believe you? all you have is a contract with the owner, I was already here and the property manager OK'd it. You have to get the owner to throw me out". First off which person has occupied the space the correct way, and second imagine if you had this problem in over 1,000 different locations.

[kandyking]

That is almost an apt comparison. To make it a little closer to the actual events, it would be that I, as the Landlord, rented you a space as a month to month tenant. I then rented it to someone for a 3 year term. The onus is on ME as the Landlord to tell the month to month renter that his stay here is complete and that a new occupant will be taking over the space. I can not expect the new tenant to do that nor can I expect the old tenant to leave based on the word of someone who walked in off the street.

Seriously gentlemen, please send me your email addresses and the cities in which you operate. I will drive around looking for your locations and then shoot you an email saying that I now have the exclusive to the corner yogurt shop you have had a machine in for the last year so you should remove your equipment ASAP before you find it in a dumpster. By the way, don't dare ask to see any proof of this because it is not my job to show it to you. Just pack your things and leave the location for me. Don't you see the clear conflict in your competitor telling you to leave a location?

[dogcow]

That is almost an apt comparison. To make it a little closer to the actual events, it would be that I, as the Landlord, rented you a space as a month to month tenant. I then rented it to someone for a 3 year term. The onus is on ME as the Landlord to tell the month to month renter that his stay here is complete and that a new occupant will be taking over the space. I can not expect the new tenant to do that nor can I expect the old tenant to leave based on the word of someone who walked in off the street.

the problem with your example is the OP has no authority or agreement from old navy. a manager can no more give you the OK to place the machine than your property manager could make a side deal to lease me space in your strip mall without your permission. corporate hq is the location OWNER if they dont authorize the machine they are not supposed to be there. if you slammed the machine would you fight being kicked, ofc not. but theres no difference really. the manager cant make that call,really. its really not much different than a slammed machine, you just made a side deal with the manager NOT old navy who owns the locations

the vending mgmt co has a deal with the location OWNERS, that is a legit deal yours is not

[kandyking]

Crooked vendors like kandyking are the reason charity vendors have such a bad name in the vending business. Shame on you kandyking! What comes around, goes around!

Roy,

What exactly makes me crooked? That I have the good sense not to let my competition tell me to leave a location. I pride myself and my company on never stepping on anyones toes but, my friend, I am no doormat either. Please Roy, elaborate on your point so I can understand my so called wrong doing.

Dogcow,

The Manager is a representative of Old Navy, hired by them and entrusted to run the store. It is not my place to say what is and what is not his authority. That being said, if he or anyone from the organization told me to remove my machines, I would. My point is that I would not accept a kick out from a competitor. That is the only point I am arguing. I agree that the contract vendor may have an exclusive. I agree that the manager may or may not have the authority to allow me to put my machine there. I am not even refuting that the contract vendor has a deal with the owners and that supersedes mine. All I am saying is that the onus is on Old Navy to notify all other vendors that their services are no longer required and there is no way I would move my machine based on the word of a competitor. If that makes me "crooked" as the wisdom of Roy Brown and his 2 weeks of vending experience feels compelled to dub me, then so be it. To me, it is just being prudent to not allow someone with the same end game as me dictate what I can and can not do.

Do you think a Burger King will close because the McDonalds manager came and told him that McDonalds is now the only burger joint in the city limits? I would assume they would wait for someone of authority in the city to notify them and not take the word of the very same people they are competing with. Roy Brown and his wealth of experience calls this crooked . . . I call it prudent to wait to hear it from someone who does not directly benefit from your departure.

[jimbo7256]

I do charity and locations through a broker ( pelican and ncen) I would not move my machine out until the location ask me to. If I would not do a contract with a broker to put machines in the break room. Usually the commissions are to high for that type of placement. I have not been in a old navy for some time but I do not remember seeing any bulk machines.

[treadmill]

I do charity and locations through a broker ( pelican and ncen) I would not move my machine out until the location ask me to. If I would not do a contract with a broker to put machines in the break room. Usually the commissions are to high for that type of placement. I have not been in a old navy for some time but I do not remember seeing any bulk machines.

These are placed in the break rooms.

[newheart53]

Roy,

What exactly makes me crooked? That I have the good sense not to let my competition tell me to leave a location. I pride myself and my company on never stepping on anyones toes but, my friend, I am no doormat either. Please Roy, elaborate on your point so I can understand my so called wrong doing.

Dogcow,

The Manager is a representative of Old Navy, hired by them and entrusted to run the store. It is not my place to say what is and what is not his authority. That being said, if he or anyone from the organization told me to remove my machines, I would. My point is that I would not accept a kick out from a competitor. That is the only point I am arguing. I agree that the contract vendor may have an exclusive. I agree that the manager may or may not have the authority to allow me to put my machine there. I am not even refuting that the contract vendor has a deal with the owners and that supersedes mine. All I am saying is that the onus is on Old Navy to notify all other vendors that their services are no longer required and there is no way I would move my machine based on the word of a competitor. If that makes me "crooked" as the wisdom of Roy Brown and his 2 weeks of vending experience feels compelled to dub me, then so be it. To me, it is just being prudent to not allow someone with the same end game as me dictate what I can and can not do.

Do you think a Burger King will close because the McDonalds manager came and told him that McDonalds is now the only burger joint in the city limits? I would assume they would wait for someone of authority in the city to notify them and not take the word of the very same people they are competing with. Roy Brown and his wealth of experience calls this crooked . . . I call it prudent to wait to hear it from someone who does not directly benefit from your departure.

I agree with kandy king. If old navy does not train their regional and store managers in that field [external contracts], then the prblem lies with old navy. If the regional has not forced the removal of those machines then maybe the contract between company A and oldnavy is not as binding as com.A imagines. Then if com.A has that contract they should be willing to produce said contract for com.B to honor.If com. B decides not to honor said contract then comA should take said contract to old navy and have them settle the question at hand.

The store managers are there to manage the stores for old navy and have a certain amount of say as to what happens in there store. The area manager has the responsibility to make sure that the store managers are promoting said store to represent the expectations of old navy.

To remove your equip. because a stanger tells you to---No way.

I'm headed to tulsa tomorrow and will definitly stop at the first old navy I see and talk to the store manager about this situation. Will report back after ward with details

[havending]

The point you guys are missing is that when a company signs a deal with a management company to handle the vending that then in this case old navy does not get involved with the placement of machines. It's up to the management company to enforce the vending program because old navy signed it over to them. The store manager had no more authority than the cashier in placing machines.

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Some of you guys have no clue on management contracts.

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[bulkdude]

A manager is low level magement they have no say in really anything that goes on, it's their home office that does all the yes and no's. Managers just say yes more because they dont care. But in the end home office signed a CONTRACT with a different company and the contract vending will always win. So say bye bye to the machine. The contract vending company spent time and money to get that contract signed for x number of locations and than to find out your machine is their and you do not have ok from home office the people that pay the bills they are the ones in charge.

[vendy]

The point you guys are missing...

I think the only one missing the point is you. No one is disputing anything about the contract, the point is if this vendor is expected to remove his machine, he should be told so by the location. Not the other vendor. What would you do if I called you and told you to remove your equipment from a location because I had a contract? Would you go get your stuff or would you want proof of said contract from the location? If you you remove the machine, like you preach here, then you'd be a damn fool and you know it.

[Smiley]

Having been in this situation many times before, let me tell you what happens when you report it back to corporate that someone violated your exclusive vending rights....... Nothing. Most of that time it is on you to inform the other operator and to do whatever it takes to make sure he doesn't canabalize your sales.

[havending]

I think the only one missing the point is you. No one is disputing anything about the contract, the point is if this vendor is expected to remove his machine, he should be told so by the location. Not the other vendor. What would you do if I called you and told you to remove your equipment from a location because I had a contract? Would you go get your stuff or would you want proof of said contract from the location? If you you remove the machine, like you preach here, then you'd be a damn fool and you know it.

The management company was hired by old navy to handle the vending and vending operators. You want old navy to have to do the kicking out when they hired some one to do that? And you call me a fool. Lol. It's clear most of you have never signed or even seen a management contract.

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[dogcow]

Roy,

What exactly makes me crooked? That I have the good sense not to let my competition tell me to leave a location. I pride myself and my company on never stepping on anyones toes but, my friend, I am no doormat either. Please Roy, elaborate on your point so I can understand my so called wrong doing.

Dogcow,

The Manager is a representative of Old Navy, hired by them and entrusted to run the store. It is not my place to say what is and what is not his authority. That being said, if he or anyone from the organization told me to remove my machines, I would. My point is that I would not accept a kick out from a competitor. That is the only point I am arguing. I agree that the contract vendor may have an exclusive. I agree that the manager may or may not have the authority to allow me to put my machine there. I am not even refuting that the contract vendor has a deal with the owners and that supersedes mine. All I am saying is that the onus is on Old Navy to notify all other vendors that their services are no longer required and there is no way I would move my machine based on the word of a competitor. If that makes me "crooked" as the wisdom of Roy Brown and his 2 weeks of vending experience feels compelled to dub me, then so be it. To me, it is just being prudent to not allow someone with the same end game as me dictate what I can and can not do.

Do you think a Burger King will close because the McDonalds manager came and told him that McDonalds is now the only burger joint in the city limits? I would assume they would wait for someone of authority in the city to notify them and not take the word of the very same people they are competing with. Roy Brown and his wealth of experience calls this crooked . . . I call it prudent to wait to hear it from someone who does not directly benefit from your departure.

that is goofball reasoning , if they wanted to kick you on the sly they would just call as the manager or GM and tell you to remove it, happens all the time. a vending mgmt has reason to go screwing around with smalltime vendors. thats not what they do

[Smiley]

Fine. Don't take it out. Just don't expect it to be there next time you come to collect.

[kandyking]

Gentlemen,

I am not sure how many more times I can re-state a point that has yet to be refuted. Why would I listen to a competitor who directly gains from lying when he tells me that my machine is no longer welcomed at a location? If my machine is "not there" when I go to service it and the location itself has not asked me to remove it, then that is nothing short of theft. I am not saying that Vending Mgmt themselves falsely claim that they have a location to make a competitor leave, I am saying that someone could possibly do that. Thusly, I will not take the word of someone who is not a direct employee or owner of the location. Refute the wisdom in not taking the word of a competitor who has something to gain as gospel. The worst that can happen to me is that the competitor steals and disposes of my machine, at which point they have committed a crime.

[Smiley]

I said nothing about disposing of the machine. I wonder who the authorities would consider the criminal after they were shown a contract that you were violating.

In regards to not believing that I have an exclusive contract.Why should I believe that you got a manager's approval? Where's your proof of that?

[kandyking]

Firstly, I can not violate a contract that I am not a part of. Old Navy is violating the contract. Regardless, violating a contract is a civil matter and theft of a machine is a criminal matter. Secondly, the fact that my machine is there and the only person asking me to remove it is another vendor is proof enough that the manager (or someone in the store) allows mine there.

[Action Vending]

After you file a police report your machine will still be gone and you will never hear from the police again. Bulk vending theft is probably a lower priority than j-walking on a police departments list.