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beejaykc aka Munch A Bunch

Is ANYONE vending 16.9 bottle successfully? Come on g'damn it!

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Long day. Cranky. There has GOT to be someone here that's successfully vending Sams/Costco 16.9z bottles. What's the secret?

Using the BC12 machine from Wittern. Does cans fine (or seemingly fine).

Brand new machine. Could it be a drop sensor problem? Or is it a bottle problem and I shouldn't try them?

It's vending 2 instead of 1. I've tried nearly everything, as has the Wittern tech support guys. In fact, I emptied the machine tonight and loaded it with cans for the weekend. LAST thing I wanted to do on a Friday night.

I tried to put a water filler in it....didn't help. I gotta think it's the bottle size. But the machine specs say they'll vend 16.9.

I'm tired and frustrated. Give it another wack over the weekend.

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Ok. Take a deep breath. Let it out. It will be ok! I vend 16.9 out of Royal 650's. they work just fine. Actually, next week I am making the switch to 20 oz bottles.

Is there an option for shims on the Wittern machine? I am unfamiliar with this model.

On the Royal, there is an option for vending 1 deep or 2 deep. Any thing similar on your model?

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Ok. Take a deep breath. Let it out. It will be ok! I vend 16.9 out of Royal 650's. they work just fine. Actually, next week I am making the switch to 20 oz bottles.

Is there an option for shims on the Wittern machine? I am unfamiliar with this model.

On the Royal, there is an option for vending 1 deep or 2 deep. Any thing similar on your model?

Just added a couple of photos right from the service manual in the gallery. Check out the BC12 gallery. Probably not enough to tell you much. Can's are 2 deep. Bottles are 1. Machine loads front to back.

God help me.

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Look in the manual to see if there is a programming option for cans/bottles. That is the way it is on the Royals. Someone here will be able to help you!

Where did you buy the machine? Can they offer you advice?

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Long day. Cranky. There has GOT to be someone here that's successfully vending Sams/Costco 16.9z bottles. What's the secret?

Using the BC12 machine from Wittern. Does cans fine (or seemingly fine).

Brand new machine. Could it be a drop sensor problem? Or is it a bottle problem and I shouldn't try them?

It's vending 2 instead of 1. I've tried nearly everything, as has the Wittern tech support guys. In fact, I emptied the machine tonight and loaded it with cans for the weekend. LAST thing I wanted to do on a Friday night.

I tried to put a water filler in it....didn't help. I gotta think it's the bottle size. But the machine specs say they'll vend 16.9.

I'm tired and frustrated. Give it another wack over the weekend.

If it was a faulty drop sensor... i think it would be double vending cans also.

What brand of 16.9oz bottle are you trying to vend & have you tried increasing the sensitivity on the sensor adjustment screw

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The standard, readily available flavors at Sam's and Costco (coke, pepsi, etc). We did try adjusting the sensor - through the computer menu. Is there a screw as well that I need to consider adjusting? Hmmm....

Could it be this "Space to Sales (STS)" thing as well? The instruction manual says the following settings are available: Whole Rows, Half Rows, By 2's, Whole Machine, and Custom. I don't yet understand this stuff.

Thanks, guys.

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beejaykc,

The BC12/CB700 machine can handle 16.9 bottles with proper programming. Now I'm going to assume, since you said the machine is brand new, that it is a model 3502 with a GVC control board which is indicated by a selection keypad with 12 round buttons. You may have the wrong depth programmed for your bottle cols., but I suspect it is actually a drop sensor setting problem. I don't know what your experience is with this machine so I will give you all the details.

The drop sensor detects a product hitting the delivery chute and stops the motor at that moment. This is to prevent a second product from vending. Cans and bottles will hit the chute with different forces and the drop sensor has to be set to detect those differences in impact and still stop the motor. The impact will also be lighter from a rear corner column and sometimes the front corners too. It all depends on how the products fall onto the chute. If the drop sensor is not set to a setting that is sensitive enough, it might not detect a softer impact, therefore allowing that vend motor to run further until either a product hits with enough force to stop the motor or until 8 seconds elapses. If 8 seconds elapses with no detected impact, that selection will be flagged as 'sold out.'

The first thing you should do is verify all of your can/bottle settings by selection.

1. Press the service mode button on your control board and your display should read '14' which is the number of motors in the machine.

2. On the front keypad press '4', and the display will read 'Cbs' for can/bottle setting.

3. In order to set can/bottle for one selection, press keypad '1' and display will show 'Each'.

4. Now enter the first selection you want to check/change (I suggest start with '10' and do them all), display will show 'Can' or possibly 'bott'.

(Remember that as long as you haven't changed Space-to-sales, the standard config. is col. 1&2 (front and back on the right) are selection '10',

cols. 3&4 are sel. '11', col. 5 is sel. '12', col. 6 is sel. '13', etc. Column numbers move right to left, front to back.)

5. Press '1' now to switch between 'Can' and 'bott' on the display so that the setting is correct for the product you have in the selection '10' position

of the product display window.

('Can' setting is for any selection that is loaded 2 deep in one column, 'bott' is for any selection that's loaded 1 product deep in one column)

6. Press # key to save your setting and display will show two dashes (--).

7. Repeat steps 4 - 6 and set all your remaining selections in order of the product displays going down the window in the door.

8. When finished with the can/bott settings, press * three times to exit and display should show 'Ice Cold'.

Now you need to check your drop sensor setting.

1. Press the service mode button on the control board and the display will show '14'.

2. Press '3' on the selection keypad and the display will show 'Optn'.

3. Press '0' on keypad and the display will show the current drop sensor setting, a number in the range of 'drp1' to 'drp8' I believe.

4. Press '0' repeatedly until you see 'drp1' in the display. This is the factory default setting.

5. Now press # to save the setting and then press * three times to exit the programming. The display will show 'Ice Cold'.

Try vending your bottles again and see if the problem persists. The issue may get better or worse, indicated by no product dropping (a dry vend) because the sensor is too sensitive. If that happens, then repeat the drops sensor setting procedure and change to 'drp2'. With the setting starting at 'drp1', you don't want to change more than one setting at a time. Now test your products again. Be sure you test all 14 columns so you don't miss something.

The machine should vend 12 oz cans and 20 oz bottles with no other settings, but there is one other thing that can happen with 16.9 oz bottles and that is "bridging" of the bottles. This is when they end up side by side in the stack and nothing will drop down to the vend position. (This is not the problem you're having right now.) You should have a piece of black plastic about 12" square stored inside your machine. This is called a "Filler" and is to be used with 16.9 oz bottles to prevent the bridging problem. There are instructions for installation on the "Filler". Don't use it unless you have a bridging problem. If you have bridging in more than one column, you may have to order more "Fillers" because I think the factory only puts one in the machine.

I hope this information can get you up and running. If it doesn't, reply to this post and we can talk again. Good luck.

beejaykc,

The BC12/CB700 machine can handle 16.9 bottles with proper programming. Now I'm going to assume, since you said the machine is brand new, that it is a model 3502 with a GVC control board which is indicated by a selection keypad with 12 round buttons. You may have the wrong depth programmed for your bottle cols., but I suspect it is actually a drop sensor setting problem. I don't know what your experience is with this machine so I will give you all the details.

The drop sensor detects a product hitting the delivery chute and stops the motor at that moment. This is to prevent a second product from vending. Cans and bottles will hit the chute with different forces and the drop sensor has to be set to detect those differences in impact and still stop the motor. The impact will also be lighter from a rear corner column and sometimes the front corners too. It all depends on how the products fall onto the chute. If the drop sensor is not set to a setting that is sensitive enough, it might not detect a softer impact, therefore allowing that vend motor to run further until either a product hits with enough force to stop the motor or until 8 seconds elapses. If 8 seconds elapses with no detected impact, that selection will be flagged as 'sold out.'

The first thing you should do is verify all of your can/bottle settings by selection.

1. Press the service mode button on your control board and your display should read '14' which is the number of motors in the machine.

2. On the front keypad press '4', and the display will read 'Cbs' for can/bottle setting.

3. In order to set can/bottle for one selection, press keypad '1' and display will show 'Each'.

4. Now enter the first selection you want to check/change (I suggest start with '10' and do them all), display will show 'Can' or possibly 'bott'.

(Remember that as long as you haven't changed Space-to-sales, the standard config. is col. 1&2 (front and back on the right) are selection '10',

cols. 3&4 are sel. '11', col. 5 is sel. '12', col. 6 is sel. '13', etc. Column numbers move right to left, front to back.)

5. Press '1' now to switch between 'Can' and 'bott' on the display so that the setting is correct for the product you have in the selection '10' position

of the product display window.

('Can' setting is for any selection that is loaded 2 deep in one column, 'bott' is for any selection that's loaded 1 product deep in one column)

6. Press # key to save your setting and display will show two dashes (--).

7. Repeat steps 4 - 6 and set all your remaining selections in order of the product displays going down the window in the door.

8. When finished with the can/bott settings, press * three times to exit and display should show 'Ice Cold'.

Now you need to check your drop sensor setting.

1. Press the service mode button on the control board and the display will show '14'.

2. Press '3' on the selection keypad and the display will show 'Optn'.

3. Press '0' on keypad and the display will show the current drop sensor setting, a number in the range of 'drp1' to 'drp8' I believe.

4. Press '0' repeatedly until you see 'drp1' in the display. This is the factory default setting.

5. Now press # to save the setting and then press * three times to exit the programming. The display will show 'Ice Cold'.

Try vending your bottles again and see if the problem persists. The issue may get better or worse, indicated by no product dropping (a dry vend) because the sensor is too sensitive. If that happens, then repeat the drops sensor setting procedure and change to 'drp2'. With the setting starting at 'drp1', you don't want to change more than one setting at a time. Now test your products again. Be sure you test all 14 columns so you don't miss something.

The machine should vend 12 oz cans and 20 oz bottles with no other settings, but there is one other thing that can happen with 16.9 oz bottles and that is "bridging" of the bottles. This is when they end up side by side in the stack and nothing will drop down to the vend position. (This is not the problem you're having right now.) You should have a piece of black plastic about 12" square stored inside your machine. This is called a "Filler" and is to be used with 16.9 oz bottles to prevent the bridging problem. There are instructions for installation on the "Filler". Don't use it unless you have a bridging problem. If you have bridging in more than one column, you may have to order more "Fillers" because I think the factory only puts one in the machine.

I hope this information can get you up and running. If it doesn't, reply to this post and we can talk again. Good luck.

Thank you so much for such a detailed post. I worked with tech support and we worked on all of the above. We didn't try a whole variety of drop sensor settings, but we did change it once or twice. I suppose I should try playing with that more. Thank you!! I will try some of this today.

Do you run these machines? What's been your experience with them? I really like it for the most part (outside of this issue of course). Expensive new, but it's easy enough to program and the instruction manual is easy to read.

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Long day. Cranky. There has GOT to be someone here that's successfully vending Sams/Costco 16.9z bottles. What's the secret?

Using the BC12 machine from Wittern. Does cans fine (or seemingly fine).

Brand new machine. Could it be a drop sensor problem? Or is it a bottle problem and I shouldn't try them?

It's vending 2 instead of 1. I've tried nearly everything, as has the Wittern tech support guys. In fact, I emptied the machine tonight and loaded it with cans for the weekend. LAST thing I wanted to do on a Friday night.

I tried to put a water filler in it....didn't help. I gotta think it's the bottle size. But the machine specs say they'll vend 16.9.

I'm tired and frustrated. Give it another wack over the weekend.

I had a similar problem with a BC10 that I delivered for my locator,the problem was almost the same whereas I spent almost an hour on the phone with tech support.It turned out that it was vending 2 cans instead of one it ended up being that metal tab that the arrow is pointing to 14 in your pic.Look under where the soda's drop do all the metal tabs look the same? As it turned out one tab was bent is it possible that you have a bent tab?

John

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I had a similar problem with a BC10 that I delivered for my locator,the problem was almost the same whereas I spent almost an hour on the phone with tech support.It turned out that it was vending 2 cans instead of one it ended up being that metal tab that the arrow is pointing to 14 in your pic.Look under where the soda's drop do all the metal tabs look the same? As it turned out one tab was bent is it possible that you have a bent tab?

John

I will check that. I had to remove that tab to get the Gatorade bottles to vend correctly (their shape prevented it) too. But I think just making a drop sensor adjustment has solved the issue today. I will be nervous about this for a few days.......so will be checking in on it daily for a few. So I will certainly check the tab. Easy enough to just remove if needed.

Thanks.

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beejaykc,

I am a vending technician now and have worked on USI stuff for over 10 years. The BC12 is a monster but it has lots of capacity and versatility. The electronics are good - it uses a Coinco-made board like Royal does. If I was still a vending operator I would probably not get any machines that size. Since USI came out with the BC10 I would prefer to use it because more than enough selections with 10. The BC10 is much easier to move and the only true difference is the capacity - approx 500 cans compared to 700 in the BC12.

USI charges too much for their new equipment. When I price new equipment for a customer I can get much lower prices on new AMS, Royal and Dixie machines than I can for USI, GPL or National (Crane). Keep your eyes open for use late model stuff and buy it when you can.

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beejaykc,

I am a vending technician now and have worked on USI stuff for over 10 years. The BC12 is a monster but it has lots of capacity and versatility. The electronics are good - it uses a Coinco-made board like Royal does. If I was still a vending operator I would probably not get any machines that size. Since USI came out with the BC10 I would prefer to use it because more than enough selections with 10. The BC10 is much easier to move and the only true difference is the capacity - approx 500 cans compared to 700 in the BC12.

USI charges too much for their new equipment. When I price new equipment for a customer I can get much lower prices on new AMS, Royal and Dixie machines than I can for USI, GPL or National (Crane). Keep your eyes open for use late model stuff and buy it when you can.

I would agree with your pricing comments. Being new to the business, you don't know what you don't know I suppose. Lesson learned, and so I move on. Thanks for the help on the double vend. I'm not 100% certain that selection 10 is fixed.....as it's occasionally double vending. I still think it's a faulty drop sensor, which I'm going to ask to have replaced. But I believe being on the most sensitive setting has resolved the other selections.

I also have a BC10, which seems to be pretty cool. Not much different I suppose, other than capacity. It's a nice machine also.

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I have been vending 16.9 bottles out of BC12's for years. What problem are you having? The bottles work great. And I have had very little problems with these machines. The problem may be in your configuration of the selections(bottles vs cans). Sometimes if it is a softer bottle for example water and in a back selection or even selection which is at the top of the sled when it drops.........it may not hit the sled hard enough for the drop sensor to pick it up. This can usually be fixed by simply changing that particular item with another.

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I have been vending 16.9 bottles out of BC12's for years. What problem are you having? The bottles work great. And I have had very little problems with these machines. The problem may be in your configuration of the selections(bottles vs cans). Sometimes if it is a softer bottle for example water and in a back selection or even selection which is at the top of the sled when it drops.........it may not hit the sled hard enough for the drop sensor to pick it up. This can usually be fixed by simply changing that particular item with another.

The selection I'm having trouble with is selection 10, generally the back row. Are you suggesting that I should just put can's in 10 rather than bottles?

I know the bottle/can config is correct and I think I've fixed the other rows that were having issues. I've got the drop sensor set to it's most sensitive setting, which has helped a TON.

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What item are you trying to vend from selection 10? A good way to test the drop sensor is to open the door, have someone test vend that selection while you are watching the auger turn. As soon as the first drink falls, hit the sled with your hand and if the drop sensor is good the auger will stop preventing the 2nd drink from falling.

If not, make sure the drop sensor is attached to the back of the sled. I have seen them fall off during shipment.

Are you vending all bottles or bot/cans?

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beejaykc

The other thing to check is to confirm that the delivery chute is "floating" at the rear corners. In the rear corners there are brackets with two places that the rear edge of the chute can rest on. Be sure that the chute is resting on the same point in each corner and has some room to move up and down - you don't want it held firmly in place in the corners.

The other thing about selection 10, as I and firehouse said, is that the bottles dropping from the rear corners will drop the softest as they have the shortest distance to fall, therefore not always triggering the drop sensor. You could move the bottles to one of your front columns where the bottles will drop farther and hit harder. The machine should not have this problem, however, and dealing with your distributor on this is definitely in order.

Did you buy direct or from a distributor? Not all distributors are created equal and some are not full distributors, but rather affiliates with no requirements to inventory machines or parts. Of course the distributor here in AZ doesn't stock many parts anyway and the affiliate guy is a bit of a joke. Wittern is very lax on what it takes for resellers to support customers. Wittern does a better job doing the support themselves than any distributor I've come across.

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Update:

The tech support guy at Wittern got back to me again today with a couple of things to try. However, at least for now, I've temporarily solved the issue. I changed my "problem selection" over to cans and it seems to vend perfectly.

Tech guy said he had a meeting with their engineer today and the recommendation is to use the water fillers (slides) on all 16.9 oz bottles. (to be fair, I tried that in my problem selection and that didn't fix the problem either) I know some of you are vending fine without those on soda selections. In fact, it appears the other selections in my machine (and in my BC10) are fine. I hesitate to order a bunch of the fillers and go through the effort unless it becomes a larger issue.

I was also under the impression that the fillers were designed for the softer bottles that water vends in. The soda bottles are more rigid and should vend without the fillers....from what I see.

Thoughts? Are they just shooting in the dark and not knowing what to do next?

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Yes. The 16.9 oz should vend without a problem. Let me read over all this and I will respond back. But I would hold off on the fillers for now.

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beejaykc,

Your're correct, the 16.9 fillers I spoke about do extend down into the vend position next to the products and are primarily for water bottles because they are softer. This provides a 'shimming' effect next to the product that is in the vend postion.

The problem that is occurring is that when a column is set to "bottle", after the intended product vends the rotor rotates counter-clockwise around to pick up the next bottle and then it is supposed to stop rotating at a point between where the rotor is vertical (rounded cutout facing up) and 90 - 135 degrees (cutout facing left and/or a little down), holding the next bottle on the lower lip of the rotor's cutout. When the motor turns farther than it should and that rotation goes farther, or if the physical gap between the sidewall and rotor is too wide to begin with, then the next bottle drops early. This is where the filler might help as it shims the gap between the sidewall and the rotor cutting down on the space the bottle could slip through.

Now, this is the problem, but since we know most of your problem stopped with the adjustment of the drop sensor, it would be worth it to try the filler in the right rear column of selection 10 to see if the filler overcomes the defect in vending a bottle from that column. If that works I would tell USI to send you however many fillers you need to get your machine to work properly free of charge. I believe there may be a problem in this machine in how it was manufactured that creates a wider gap between the rotor and sidewall in at least this column and possibly across the back columns. I'm thinking something didn't get riveted or drilled properly and there is a misalignment.

Good luck.

Edited by AZVendor

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I find that I have to use the 16.9 fillers when I'm vending the narrower Pepsi 16.9 oz products and some water bottles out of my 3155B's & CB700 USI machines. The bottles tend to jam up in the cradle area and the fillers prevent that from happening by narrowing the space between the cradle and the left side wall where the bottle passes through.

If you ever have any problems with bottles "bridging" in the stack column, especially 20 oz or larger water bottles, cut off the bottom 1 inch of the filler at the seam to prevent it from shortening the space between the cradle and the left side wall. Lubricate the filler & the walls of the stack column with a food grade silicone spray. One VENDiscuss member suggested using Pam cooking spray. Brilliant idea! It's been working well for me. I've even gone as far as ordering additional plastic product slides from USI distributor and TVF member Firehouse (the 2 white adhesive backed plastic slides in each stack column) and plastering the inside of the stack column with them to ensure there is no chance of product bridging.

Hope this helps out...my real intention here was to renew your topic title, makes me chuckle every time i read it!! :)

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