Electronic door locks

[snack dude]

I have come to the mount seeking wisdom,

I have a dn5800 glass front with the electronic lock on the service door, The machine has no power

The electrical outlet is good so it has to be something blew in the machine, I.E.fuse, power supply, board who knows at this point.

How do you get the door to unlock without power?

Theres got to be a way,,,,,,,,,RIGHT?

I went on the Dixie Narco website and found the schematic and could not see anything

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mission vending]

Dynamite, maybe C4 plastic explosives?

Seriously I have no idea, sorry I can't help on this one.

[AZVendor]

If this is a bottler owned machine have them come out and open it. If you own it and got it from a local bottler have them come out and open it. Otherwise, the problem could be that your electronic key has a bad battery or it's code is scrambled. If a new key battery doesn't solve it you can call the manufacturer of the electronic lock (Tritek might be the one) and ask them for help with this. They may be able to send you a generic key to open it with and then also get a new key from them and instructions on how to program it with the door lock.

My strong suggestion is that once you get the machine open, replaced the electronic lock with a normal T-handle assembly. You'll be happier and more relaxed. I never sell a used machine with an electronic lock (unless it's a HVV machine) just because of this type of problem.

[moondog]

If this is a bottler owned machine have them come out and open it. If you own it and got it from a local bottler have them come out and open it. Otherwise, the problem could be that your electronic key has a bad battery or it's code is scrambled. If a new key battery doesn't solve it you can call the manufacturer of the electronic lock (Tritek might be the one) and ask them for help with this. They may be able to send you a generic key to open it with and then also get a new key from them and instructions on how to program it with the door lock.

My strong suggestion is that once you get the machine open, replaced the electronic lock with a normal T-handle assembly. You'll be happier and more relaxed. I never sell a used machine with an electronic lock (unless it's a HVV machine) just because of this type of problem.

Hey AZ,

I've got a couple of machines with the Tri Teq remote controls. I inherited these machines on locations I bought and this is something that I would never install myself - I'm just waiting for one of them to crap out.

How would you convert them back to the standard T handle? It looks to me like there's a significant chunk of the door missing where these abominations were installed.

Thanks, Moondog

[snack dude]

Dynamite, maybe C4 plastic explosives?

Seriously I have no idea, sorry I can't help on this one.

C4 was one of the first things I thought of. Problem is I dont think it will work without blowing the whole door right off the machine.

On the other hand............the machine would be open!!!!!LOL

[snack dude]

If this is a bottler owned machine have them come out and open it. If you own it and got it from a local bottler have them come out and open it. Otherwise, the problem could be that your electronic key has a bad battery or it's code is scrambled. If a new key battery doesn't solve it you can call the manufacturer of the electronic lock (Tritek might be the one) and ask them for help with this. They may be able to send you a generic key to open it with and then also get a new key from them and instructions on how to program it with the door lock.

My strong suggestion is that once you get the machine open, replaced the electronic lock with a normal T-handle assembly. You'll be happier and more relaxed. I never sell a used machine with an electronic lock (unless it's a HVV machine) just because of this type of problem.

Has Nothing to do with the key

The machine does not have power,-Electric. (yes I tested the outlet and cord)

[moondog]

C4 was one of the first things I thought of. Problem is I dont think it will work without blowing the whole door right off the machine.

On the other hand............the machine would be open!!!!!LOL

Snack Dude,

Having contemplated this problem myself, I think you're best option would be to mask the glass and bust in. Once you get that far you should hopefully be able to at least access the power supply (or its harness) and resupply 120v to the system.

This is going to be a pain in the "A" no matter how you approach it - I haven't had to try this yet so I'm hoping that AZ comes up with a method to convert my machines back to the T handle.

Good Luck man

[AZVendor]

Has Nothing to do with the key

The machine does not have power,-Electric. (yes I tested the outlet and cord)

Did the machine work fine until this problem occurred? Is the refrigeration system running? The Bevmax has a power plug that plugs into the face of the power supply box and it may have come loose which will kill power to the entire machine as will a burned wire on the main power switch. If the refrigeration is running then the main power cord and switch are fine but the inline fuse to the primary side of the power transformer may have blown.

I thought there was a battery backup in the event one of these locks needed to be opened in a no-power situation. Call the manufacturer and ask them how that works. Breaking or removing the glass won't get you into the lock area of a Bevmax. You could get in by bending or cutting the top hinge on the coin compartment door and removing the door that way.

[snack dude]

Snack Dude,

Having contemplated this problem myself, I think you're best option would be to mask the glass and bust in. Once you get that far you should hopefully be able to at least access the power supply (or its harness) and resupply 120v to the system.

This is going to be a pain in the "A" no matter how you approach it - I haven't had to try this yet so I'm hoping that AZ comes up with a method to convert my machines back to the T handle.

Good Luck man

Since you have contemplated the problem, I will tell you what I have found out so far

I talked to a guy I know who is a pepsi tech. He told me that they carry a battery backup kit that plugs into a port located inside the delivery compartment and will supply power to get the door open. If that does not work they drill a hole (Did not think to ask how big of a hole) into the top of the door and can release the door that way.

Will keep you apprised of the situation.

[AZVendor]

Hey AZ,

I've got a couple of machines with the Tri Teq remote controls. I inherited these machines on locations I bought and this is something that I would never install myself - I'm just waiting for one of them to crap out.

How would you convert them back to the standard T handle? It looks to me like there's a significant chunk of the door missing where these abominations were installed.

Thanks, Moondog

Send me the model numbers and pics of the doors where the locks are installed inside and out and I will be able to tell you what needs to be done to revert back to T-handles. I need to see what you are describing where it looks like part of the door is removed.

[moondog]

Send me the model numbers and pics of the doors where the locks are installed inside and out and I will be able to tell you what needs to be done to revert back to T-handles. I need to see what you are describing where it looks like part of the door is removed.

The models are both Vendo 511s. I'll get some pics next week when I'm out there if you still need that.

Thanks AZ

Since you have contemplated the problem, I will tell you what I have found out so far

I talked to a guy I know who is a pepsi tech. He told me that they carry a battery backup kit that plugs into a port located inside the delivery compartment and will supply power to get the door open. If that does not work they drill a hole (Did not think to ask how big of a hole) into the top of the door and can release the door that way.

Will keep you apprised of the situation.

Thanks Snack Dude

That sounds to be a more amenable plan - unfortunately, both of mine are Vendo 511s, so no port. AZ thinks he knows how to rid myself of this menace so hopefully that'll be my direction.

[Sparta_Automation]

if it's a triteq device, there is suppose to be an external power jack, that you would plug an external battery pack into that would operate the lock....however you need to find where that is....if it is even installed. I have seen some installed inside the delivery bin.

Not sure if this will help. Otherwise I am voting towards the C4!

Travis

[AZVendor]

"AZVendor, on March 20 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Send me the model numbers and pics of the doors where the locks are installed inside and out and I will be able to tell you what needs to be done to revert back to T-handles. I need to see what you are describing where it looks like part of the door is removed."

The models are both Vendo 511s. I'll get some pics next week when I'm out there if you still need that.

Thanks AZ

I can't imagine what part of the door would have been damaged to install electronic locks on V511's. You should only need to remove the electronic lock, all the wiring and the latch nut assy on the inside of the cabinet. Then you need to install a Vendo T-handle assy w/ flange and a Quicker lock assy with bracket inside the cabinet. Send me your pictures if it doesn't look to be that easy. Let me know if you need the parts, they'll run about $70 per machine.

[moondog]

"AZVendor, on March 20 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Send me the model numbers and pics of the doors where the locks are installed inside and out and I will be able to tell you what needs to be done to revert back to T-handles. I need to see what you are describing where it looks like part of the door is removed."

The models are both Vendo 511s. I'll get some pics next week when I'm out there if you still need that.

Thanks AZ

I can't imagine what part of the door would have been damaged to install electronic locks on V511's. You should only need to remove the electronic lock, all the wiring and the latch nut assy on the inside of the cabinet. Then you need to install a Vendo T-handle assy w/ flange and a Quicker lock assy with bracket inside the cabinet. Send me your pictures if it doesn't look to be that easy. Let me know if you need the parts, they'll run about $70 per machine.

Looking at a 511 in my shop, it appears that there's a square plate mounted to the door that holds the coin slot, return button and T handle. It might be that I just need that square plate and the T handle assembly to solve this. I'll post some pics next week of the actual culprit.

Thanks Again

[snack dude]

an update and how the problem of no power to the door locks was resolved.

It would appear that since the hooks on the door locks face upward that after two days of no power gravity takes over and the door actually starts to unlock itself. I started out today to get the door open no matter what. When I started looking at it after it had sit for a couple of days I noticed that the door was loose and had some play in it that it did not have before. I then used a pry bar and a screw driver to force the hooks the rest of the way down and opened the door. It took about ten minutes and no damage to the door. Love it when a plan comes together.

BTW, The problem was the GFCI that was wired into the cord. It was totally gone, gave up, bit the big one.

I went to lowes which was right down the street and bought a GFCI and a heavy duty extension cord and used a power cord off of an old computer to plug into the power supply and bingo, bango, bongo back in buisness.

[andyinchville]

an update and how the problem of no power to the door locks was resolved.

It would appear that since the hooks on the door locks face upward that after two days of no power gravity takes over and the door actually starts to unlock itself. I started out today to get the door open no matter what. When I started looking at it after it had sit for a couple of days I noticed that the door was loose and had some play in it that it did not have before. I then used a pry bar and a screw driver to force the hooks the rest of the way down and opened the door. It took about ten minutes and no damage to the door. Love it when a plan comes together.

BTW, The problem was the GFCI that was wired into the cord. It was totally gone, gave up, bit the big one.

I went to lowes which was right down the street and bought a GFCI and a heavy duty extension cord and used a power cord off of an old computer to plug into the power supply and bingo, bango, bongo back in buisness.

HI,

I wonder if that way of opening a machine is just yours or machines w/ electronic locks in general....Seems like it would make it too easy to steal from !?

Glad you got yours open tho....I was anxiously awaiting the answer on this thread.

Andrew

[snack dude]

HI,

I wonder if that way of opening a machine is just yours or machines w/ electronic locks in general....Seems like it would make it too easy to steal from !?

Glad you got yours open tho....I was anxiously awaiting the answer on this thread.

Andrew

Thanks, Maybe someone else here can answer that. All I know is the door was closed tight in the locked position two days ago and loose today.

My theory is that the motor that locks and unlocks the door has to have power to hold the door in the locked position.

Thats the only reason that I can think of that the hooks mounted on the door face up.

Also it did not get loose or unlock as soon as the power went off. The machine had been out of power for several hours when I showed up and the door was still tight. So it took a while to do that.

[AZVendor]

Thanks, Maybe someone else here can answer that. All I know is the door was closed tight in the locked position two days ago and loose today.

My theory is that the motor that locks and unlocks the door has to have power to hold the door in the locked position.

Thats the only reason that I can think of that the hooks mounted on the door face up.

Also it did not get loose or unlock as soon as the power went off. The machine had been out of power for several hours when I showed up and the door was still tight. So it took a while to do that.

I completely spaced it on the fact that your problem was on a Bevmax with a lockbar, not a screw in bolt. Duh. On a machine with a standard screw-in T-handle the electronic lock has a motor that screws the door down to a specific tension then turns off, effectively locking the door. When you open it the motor reverses and unscrews the T-handle bolt to release the door. I have not seen one like on your door with a lock bar instead of a threaded stud, so you will have to study it to see if the weight of the lockbar is enough to allow the motor to run backward gradually to loosen the lockbar.

Now that you have it open you should find out if there is any phono plug installed to allow a battery backup to unlock the door. I would tell you though, you really should get the electronic lock replaced with a standard T-handle because this could happen again due to some other cause including failure of the electronic lock itself.

I do wish you had mentioned that the GFCI was on the cord and I would have suggested replacing it. On another thread today I told a vendor that the corded GFCI's are problematic for just the reason you found - they fail for no good reason. I have removed several failed GFCI devices from power cords in the last few years and just replace them with a 20 amp plug. The wonderful federal government mandates the inclusion of GFCI's on all new vending machines, but there is no rule that says you can't remove them. The problem is that the GFCI becomes the weak link in the power circuit, especially on refrigerated machines due to the high compressor start current of 13 - 16 amps. This heats up the GFCI contacts and they fail. A GFCI will also get weaker each time it trips.

Having this weak link on the line into the machine requires you to keep close watch on having 4-6 inches behind the machine for good airflow and to verify that the condenser and fans are clear and running properly at all times. Then at the first sign of nuisance trips of the GFCI, cut it out of the cord and replace it with a male plug.

[cvending]

If this unit came from a bottler, they have a battery backup unit that plugs into a port on the machine. They then use their master key to open the machine. Once they open it you can investigate where the power failure has occured. Good luck.

[Feral Vending Mechanic]

GFCIs on the power cords are a serious problem. I replace them the first time they trip. Pulling machines away from the wall from the middle of a bank of machines is No Bueno. I've got better things to do with my time.

 

Triteqs: 

 

1 ) There WILL be an auxiliary power port somewhere. ( Unless it's a R500 with Gatorade branding. For some reason those don't have one. ) If the Bottler won't give you a power pack, you can make your own with 3 nine volt batteries connected in serial with a phono jack style plug. If you're interested, I can pull out the one I made and take some pictures. 

 

2 ) Failing that, on a stacker style machine, you can break out one of the buttons and apply the power directly to a red and black wire that come off the Triteq lock. ( They are occasionally helpfully labled with a small tag that says "Do Not Apply Power." ) This will turn the screw to open the machine, but will also destroy the lock. Be ready with a replacement lock.

 

3 ) On a R500 glassfront, sometimes the cables for the mech/BV interfere with the RF signal getting to the lock unit. I often drill out the little clear plastic port and fish around with a paper clip while frantically pushing the key fob. ( Last time, I used a thicker straw from a milkshake to push directly up against the opening on the lock unit. While frantically pushing the key fob. Worked quite well, actually. ) Once I get in, I ziptie all cables far, far away from the path to the lock. So a clear signal can get through.

 

4 ) The bottler will drill a hole in the top of the machine and fish around with some wire to pull the clip that holds the lock to the lock arm. And, sometimes they'll accidentally pull the dex plug right off of the control board while they're at it. And then they'll cover up the hole they drilled with duct tape. Sometimes if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing yourself.

 

5 ) Triteqs are supposed to come with two types of keys, a black "route" key and a blue "zone" key. They also have a key called a "P1." This is a shipping key, and used to open Triteq machines straight from Pepsi. If you are using a P1 as your main key, please, please contact the bottler that supplied you with your machines and get a proper key. If you're using a P1, anyone with a P1 can get into your machine. We had hundreds of dollars going missing from some machines that we had set early in the Triteq days, and Pepsi had never fully explained the system to us. We were quite distressed. We had been using the P1, because we just didn't know.

 

The Triteq lock has two registers to hold key information. They can hold one black key and one blue key. Once you program the black key, it will overwrite the P1. Pepsi does not have a master key for the Triteqs, as far as I know. ( Unless you only have the black key, and lack the blue one. I have a suspicion that there exists a blue equivalent of a P1 that works on machines that have not had the blue key programmed. I cannot be certain, though. ) Several times I have had to call a Bottler to come break into a Triteq machine. They wouldn't let me watch, but it was quite easy to tell exactly what they had done. ( With the drilling and the fishing around, I mean. ) These days I do it myself.

 

6 ) One hack I've seen done on the newer refurbished V511/540s is to remove the 90 degree angled lens that points the RF receiver at the place it's supposed to aim, and cut a small circular hole directly in the label of the button directly in front of the Triteq lock. This makes it much easier to get a good signal with the key. ( If you've ever done that "twisting the key around to exactly the right angle" thing with certain machines, you know what I'm going on about. )

 

7 ) Triteq locks are an abomination. Luckily, the Bottlers that used them seem to have realized this, too. Most of the newer machines we've been getting have had regular old, plain old, good old T-handles. Thank goodness.

 

I hope you find this information helpful.