grumpy Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Wow! My fever must be higher then I thought, I'm seeing things on Vendiscuss that makes no sense. Just because an opportunity cost money, or requires exclusivity, does not make it a BIZ-OP. Nor does the inexperience of the principals count, in fact that may be the needed driving force of a new product. (any body remember DOS, IBM, Bill Gates) In the terms that I have seen posted as reasons why a product is a Biz-Op, it could be translated to every business opportunity out there except some homemade craft product. Lighten up! Until there is unsubstantiated claims of income, IT IS NOT A BIZ-OP! (Tar and feather) Geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacho Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Until there is unsubstantiated claims of income, IT IS NOT A BIZ-OP! Maybe this site will explain all the talk about Buzz Bites being a biz op. http://www.vendingsystems.com/biz-op.php?gclid=CKeUkcPyspQCFQyenAodiBClUQ It claims to be a Hot New Biz Op in big blue letters. So, if it's not a biz op, what is it? According to you, it's not. That means it's false advertisement. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-man422 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Grumpy, great post. Personally, I think just about anything can be considered a biz-op. What is wrong with a business opportunity? Nothing. You just have to watch out for the ones that offer unachievable returns, as you stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Can you let us know which ones you are talking about? Things that make a great opportunity a biz-op. 1) Product costs allot more than like products. 2) You need to buy a special machine to sell it. 3)The machine costs allot more than like machines. 4)They change the website they run to cash in on another "Great opportunity". 5)The profit they claim is not true 6)Other things they say are not fact. 7)Many others? I dont know what exactly you are referring to but the things that have been talked about on this site that I consider biz-op are. 1) Vendstar 2)Biz Bites 3)Dentyne Ice 4)1800 5)Pattie machines 6) And anything else that can't out perform a single head gumball machines but costs 5 times more. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo Duck Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 The definition of the term "biz-op" as used by most members of this board is: A company that takes advantage of the ignorance of people not in the industry by providing equipment and/or product at wildly inflated prices. Usually with the expectation that those costs will be covered by completely unrealistic profit projections. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VendAndy81 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I think of everything as a business opportunity, I mean if you want to start any business it takes money for equipment and start-up inventory. It is just the amount of risk that a person might have to take. A person starting their own business could take a huge amount of risk paying around $200,000 just to start up something. In vending, it could be the difference of paying 300 to 15,000 for a machine. It is all up to the person on how much they are willing to risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polecat Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I dont know what exactly you are referring to but the things that have been talked about on this site that I consider biz-op are. 1) Vendstar 2)Biz Bites 3)Dentyne Ice 4)1800 5)Pattie machines 6) And anything else that can't out perform a single head gumball machines but costs 5 times more. Mike Ouch Mike! As a customer, I'm a bit surprised you've lumped us in with 1800, buzz bites and Vendstar, of all companies . It's not that we haven't had to defend ourselves at times as being a "biz op", but we've taken great steps to NOT be compared to the others, and I hope our business practices and how we've conducted ourselves with our customers support this. In my humble opinion, what truly defines a Biz OP is: 1) Mandatory purchase of a machine, 2) The machine is incredibly over priced (example: Buzz Bites... approx. cost to build the counter top machine: $30-$35. Retail price: $340) 3) Mandatory minimum purchase required, usually $5K-$10K minimum, 3) You cannot buy the product (if applicable) without purchasing a machine, 4) "Distributorships", "exclusive territories", etc., etc. For the record: 1) We do not require minimum purchases. (In fact, you Mike, among several other VENDiscuss members, have purchased just 1 machine, which is perfectly fine). 2) A machine purchase is not even required. We have many customers who just buy product and vend it though machines they already own. 3) The price of our machine is less then $100. This is far from "Biz Op" range. 4) The product we sell, Dentyne Ice and Cert breath mints, are proven, highly branded, quality products. DI is the #1 selling SF, breath freshening gum in the US. We're not trying to create or over-hype an unproven product. Also, the cost per vend for both products are in the 6.5 cent to .08 cent range, which represents a COGS in the 26% to 30% range, which is actually very competitive for a premium, highly branded consumable product. In fact , the per-vend cost is lower then M&M's and most peanut products, and is competitive with skittles and M&I, which really aren't really even "comparable" products. And finally... "And anything else that can't out perform a single head gumball machines but costs 5 times more". We obviously don't make income gaurantees, but feedback from customers representing over 3,000 locations indicate that 90+% of DI locations are producing well over the national average of a single head, single product machine (approx. $10/mo). In fact, the revenue section on this board will help substantiate this. Obviously, the right locations are critical, as with all machines. When placed in one of the top 5 location-types, we typically see avg. revenue from 2x to 5x that of the national average. Many are producing at higher levels then that. If you're producing in the $7- $15 range (which would be typical for a standard single head), it's simply not in the optimal location for this product. I usually try not to get defensive when there's a negative post about DI. We understand we're not the answer to all problems, and we have a few bugs of our own that we're working hard to correct (more on that later). But when we're lumped in with the aforementioned companies, I do feel compelled to speak out. We've enjoyed our relationship here at VENDiscuss and hope to be a part of it well into the future. Steve, spvg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mike Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Steve, I should say I dont consider you to be dishonest or think you have ripped anyone off. Maybe calling you a biz-op is to strong of a word if I consider the company it would lump you in with as I think the others are out right con-artists. I dont think you are. Sorry If I have caused offense. I would consider DI not the best thing for new vendors to start out with though. Anyway back to beating on the real deserving biz-op hucksters Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo Duck Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Yeah Steve, I cringed when I saw Big Mike lump you in with those guys. Sometime back I heard someone describe your nitche as a premium branded product and I completely agree with that assessment. By the way, have you developed a wheel for selling your product in Oaks? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polecat Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Not yet, Tom. And candidly, It's likely we won't have a wheel that conforms to every machine out there due to the multiple design variances in the coin mech-wheel interlink. In fact, I'm not aware of a wheel that's interchangeable with all other machines in general. Having said that, you can always use 1.1 capsules and vend through any machine that supports a capsule/gumball wheel. There are a number of operators successfully doing this, including T-Bird on this forum. In addition to ensuring a precise 2-piece vend, it offers a more "sanitary" vend, which is especially helpful when selling to females (a major demographic group for Dentyne Ice). Thanks for your support... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo Duck Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I don't remember where I got this idea, but I thought you were going to design individual wheels for a few of the top machine makers like Northwestern and Oak. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Well for me it really only boils down to two things. Can you purchase product separately. Can you purchase only one machine. In terms of our industry, if the above questions are answered with a "NO" then in my eyes its a Biz-Op. To me it doesn't matter what the projected income is or how much the investment is.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Another thing that defines a bizops is a company use deceitful tactics to try and sell a product or lure in a potential customer. These can include unrealistic income projections, false testimonials, misleading websites etc. When D-ice came out I looked into that and at the time, to me, it was walking a fine line between a legit new product niche and a bizop and, although I passed on the opportunity, the fact that they at least tried to accommodate established vendors by selling just product to cap or letting them buy 1 machine to try it out proved to me they truley believed in the product and were just pushing sales of a package. It seems to me any company pushing a new product line and trying to get market saturation would try and accomidate existing equiptment on the street by at least providing a vend wheel that the vendor could buy and swap out- that is if selling their product, not vending packages, was the company's main goal. Im also real leary of the word 'distribitor', that word is a big red flag for me and has been associated with many shady vending ops. Jimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedk Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If it looks like skunk, and it walks like a skunk, and it smells like a skunk....chances are it's a skunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T BIRD Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I do not see Superpro as a biz op. I do think that Steve speaks way too optimistically about what that product can do in the " right " location. I have had them in right locations and wrong locations and they just do not do well for me. At one time I had them placed in 10 locations. 8 of them do/did under $10 per month. 2 of them do on the average of $21 per month. The $21 per month are for two head machines......Certs and DI. So that number is no great shakes. I currently have a gorgeous looking double Elite machine with capsules placed at a very high end beauty and massage establishment. A perfect location right Steve? I will post how my first take from this spot does tomorrow and I will post it under my monthly info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T BIRD Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Well.........I need to amend what I said yesterday about the DI/Certs machine and product and how it does. We scored very well when we collected for the first time at a large art supply store that has the machine outside of their offices in the back and right near the bathrooms for anyone in the store. We were shocked to see $49.50 in it. I will report about that high end women's massage and beauty place this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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