A Sign of the Times, DN Tech Support is no Longer Free

[mission vending]

Well this morning I called DN, or should I say Crane, about the 5800 I'm having a problem with. It turns out that sometime over the few weeks they have implemented a new policy where you have to have a account set up with them and unless your machine is still under warranty you have to pay $25.00 to talk to a tech.

 

I can understand the policy, it costs money to keep the techs around and provide them a space to work. That doesn't mean that I am required to like it.

 

I guess one positive development of this policy is that it will make the knowledge and contributions we offer and make to each here at TVF even more valuable and in demand.

[FrCorey]

I guess DN learned that when crane had to buy them out.

[AZVendor]

Did you call the DN tech line or the Crane/National tech line?  Do they charge for customers that have account numbers?  Did they help you out with your machine (what did they say, by the way) and did they charge you? 

 

I think this is petty and ridiculous of them to institute a charge for support help with machines they have sold, regardless of how long ago it was.  I realize that they may not be selling as many parts as in years past and might be giving tech support to people that then buy from VE, Betson or D&S, but those companies have been in business for years as well and never forced DN to have a need to charge for support before. 

 

It is hard to believe that they would intentionally alienate vendors in this way.  Perhaps it's an attempt to get more official customers with accounts, but that would fill their servers with numbers that just go dormant.  I don't truly understand this.  They have people paid to sit there and answer questions (for whatever that's worth now as all the veterans seem to be gone) and that's what they do.  It has worked for 50? years and now it's an issue?

 

I did hear last week that soda machine sales are real soft, especially for Vendo and possibly DN, as the bottlers have really curtailed their equipment purchases in the last year or so, but that is more reason to keep the channels open and woo the customers, not chase them away.  There is an obvious possibility that Vendo could be dealt to someone, hopefully not Crane, but maybe to USI or an outside investment group.  Vendo is owned by Sanden in Japan and there is no telling how long they will allow Vendo to do poorly.  The soft market also hurts Vendo and DN because Coke uses Royal now and Pepsi has never bought the quantities of machines from Vendo that Coke buys from Royal.  They all have production in Europe as well, but that market is tight with Jofemar and Wurlitzer over there.

 

I hold Crane at fault here for three reasons:  1. They dumped many of the older DN parts that they could be selling for older machines.  2. Crane tries hard to carry parts only for current production machines and even those are hard to get sometimes. 3.When Crane bought DN they jacked up all the DN parts prices stating that they were way too low (it hadn't been a problem for DN though).  This is obviously another money grab by Crane and if DN can't financially support their own tech support staff, then something is wrong in their business plan.  I'm not surprised by this, but very disheartened to find that, once again, Crane doesn't give a rat's *** about their legacy customers, only about selling new machines.

 

I also still say Crane holds a lot of responsibility for the depression in the vending industry now.  You can't absorb and dismantle vending suppliers and call that beneficial to the industry.  Forcing customers into new equipment with planned obsolescence and by not stocking some replacement parts is no different than blackmail.  I know there are many factors putting pressure on vending manufacturers such as the growth in Micro Markets, but there will always be a need for vending machines.  If Crane started selling Micro Markets (horrors!) I would then believe they are purposely trying to kill the vending equipment market off.  I wish Crane would just go back to their industrial parts manufacturing business in Europe and leave us alone! 

 

An interesting aside, Crane always shows very poor results from the Vending component of their balance sheet and you look at the numbers and wonder how they stay in business.  But you have to remember how big they are in other industries and how much they earn in those industries and it begins then, to look like Vending is nothing but a way to wash away some of the profits or taxes on profits from the other lines of business.

[moondog]

Did you call the DN tech line or the Crane/National tech line?  Do they charge for customers that have account numbers?  Did they help you out with your machine (what did they say, by the way) and did they charge you? 

 

I think this is petty and ridiculous of them to institute a charge for support help with machines they have sold, regardless of how long ago it was.  I realize that they may not be selling as many parts as in years past and might be giving tech support to people that then buy from VE, Betson or D&S, but those companies have been in business for years as well and never forced DN to have a need to charge for support before. 

 

It is hard to believe that they would intentionally alienate vendors in this way.  Perhaps it's an attempt to get more official customers with accounts, but that would fill their servers with numbers that just go dormant.  I don't truly understand this.  They have people paid to sit there and answer questions (for whatever that's worth now as all the veterans seem to be gone) and that's what they do.  It has worked for 50? years and now it's an issue?

 

I did hear last week that soda machine sales are real soft, especially for Vendo and possibly DN, as the bottlers have really curtailed their equipment purchases in the last year or so, but that is more reason to keep the channels open and woo the customers, not chase them away.  There is an obvious possibility that Vendo could be dealt to someone, hopefully not Crane, but maybe to USI or an outside investment group.  Vendo is owned by Sanden in Japan and there is no telling how long they will allow Vendo to do poorly.  The soft market also hurts Vendo and DN because Coke uses Royal now and Pepsi has never bought the quantities of machines from Vendo that Coke buys from Royal.  They all have production in Europe as well, but that market is tight with Jofemar and Wurlitzer over there.

 

I hold Crane at fault here for three reasons:  1. They dumped many of the older DN parts that they could be selling for older machines.  2. Crane tries hard to carry parts only for current production machines and even those are hard to get sometimes. 3.When Crane bought DN they jacked up all the DN parts prices stating that they were way too low (it hadn't been a problem for DN though).  This is obviously another money grab by Crane and if DN can't financially support their own tech support staff, then something is wrong in their business plan.  I'm not surprised by this, but very disheartened to find that, once again, Crane doesn't give a rat's *** about their legacy customers, only about selling new machines.

 

I also still say Crane holds a lot of responsibility for the depression in the vending industry now.  You can't absorb and dismantle vending suppliers and call that beneficial to the industry.  Forcing customers into new equipment with planned obsolescence and by not stocking some replacement parts is no different than blackmail.  I know there are many factors putting pressure on vending manufacturers such as the growth in Micro Markets, but there will always be a need for vending machines.  If Crane started selling Micro Markets (horrors!) I would then believe they are purposely trying to kill the vending equipment market off.  I wish Crane would just go back to their industrial parts manufacturing business in Europe and leave us alone! 

 

An interesting aside, Crane always shows very poor results from the Vending component of their balance sheet and you look at the numbers and wonder how they stay in business.  But you have to remember how big they are in other industries and how much they earn in those industries and it begins then, to look like Vending is nothing but a way to wash away some of the profits or taxes on profits from the other lines of business.

If the vending business is doing so poorly for them,  then why does Crane continue to absorb other vending companies?  "Continue" is probably a poor choice of words since there aren't too many companies left (Vendo, Wittern, Royal and AMS).  AP, Dixie and Rowe were all great companies at one time and made quality machines - of course, the demise of Rowe was more due to AP's acquisition.

 

I don't own any AMS equipment yet but that will be my future "go to" brand for snack machines (after I've bought all the AP7600's I can find and upgraded them with the VE kits).  As for soda machines, I'm sticking with Royal - I've called their tech support several times and have never been charged a nickel.

[cvending]

I just spoke with our Crane Rep. If you have an active account with Crane. You will not have to pay for tech support. If you have purchased any equipment or parts wi.thin the past 6 yrs. and have an account, it will remain free. They have discovered that 60% of callers were not active customers thereby clogging up their phone lines for paying customers.

[PinkJazzX]

I did hear last week that soda machine sales are real soft, especially for Vendo and possibly DN, as the bottlers have really curtailed their equipment purchases in the last year or so, but that is more reason to keep the channels open and woo the customers, not chase them away.  There is an obvious possibility that Vendo could be dealt to someone, hopefully not Crane, but maybe to USI or an outside investment group.  Vendo is owned by Sanden in Japan and there is no telling how long they will allow Vendo to do poorly.  The soft market also hurts Vendo and DN because Coke uses Royal now and Pepsi has never bought the quantities of machines from Vendo that Coke buys from Royal.  They all have production in Europe as well, but that market is tight with Jofemar and Wurlitzer over there.

For conventional stack machines, yes Coke now buys almost exclusively from Royal. However, it seems that most of their newest glass front installations (based on my observations) are D-N BevMax 4s, rather than Royal Visions.

As for Pepsi, the manufacturer of choice seems to be more regionalized. Here in Arizona, Pepsi mostly buys its conventional stack machines from Vendo, however, it seems they have returned to Dixie-Narco for glass fronts after many problems with the Vendo Vue machines. In the East Coast, Pepsi buys almost all of its machines from Dixie-Narco and Vendo machines are almost non-existent.