Rethinking machines for starting out

[SRC]

My husband and I are just getting started in the vending business. He will be doing all of the locating and servicing of the machines while I will be focused on most of the background research, managing the business, and accounting. We want to start out just vending bulk candy and gumballs, ideally charity vending with a local charity, but open to commission if necessary. I've been reading some bulk vending books and reading on this site, so I think I may be in information overload!

One thing we had agreed on was to start researching some triple vending machines. So we bought two Vendstar 3000s used, knowing they got mixed reviews. But they were cheap and we don't have a lot of start up money, so we'd give it a try. While the Vendstars work and we will use them, we decided not to invest in any more. I've been researching other machines, and I hear people talk about Northwestern, Beaver, A&A, and Oak, but Northwestern Triple Play was the main triple machine I found, and those are hard to come by used. Then the more I read, it sounds like most of you buy the single machines, and then put those on stands. Should that be the direction for use rather than triple machines? Why would you prefer this over the triples?

I told my husband that if we focused in single machines and then buy single, double, or triple stands, then it would be easier to move up to machines in racks, which is eventually what we'd like to do. And it would be easier to customize for the available space at different locations. But he doesn't seem convinced...yet. Do you think we should stick with triples (non-name brand metal ones are what I'm looking at) or focus on singles on stands?

[sherlock]

Then the more I read, it sounds like most of you buy the single machines, and then put those on stands. Should that be the direction for use rather than triple machines? Why would you prefer this over the triples?

I told my husband that if we focused in single machines and then buy single, double, or triple stands, then it would be easier to move up to machines in racks, which is eventually what we'd like to do. And it would be easier to customize for the available space at different locations.

 

You pretty much answered your own question.

 

What you told your husband is EXACTLY why most pro vendors prefer single machines over triple machines.

Triple machines force you to vend more than 1 product even if a location is not busy enough to support multiple products.

Buying single machines lets you customize from one location to another...and you can add or remove heads when necessary.

You can even use the single heads on your racks if/when you decide to follow-through with your plan to go in that direction.

[Rick]

Your team made a very smart move to put you in charge of background research and business management.  Pretty much everything you just said is what most experienced bulk vendors have learned through numerous painful mistakes.  Good luck to both of you!

[musser]

Stay away from triples. Buy Northwestern "super 60's", Oak Vista panel heads or the 350 globe, or A&A PO89 (which is a Oak knock off but a good machine" I like to support the guys that designed the machines originally but for you just starting out I would buy A&A PO89 with a panel head because: the rear panel can be removed and a "cab back" added to increase capacity, the  machine will vend (with the proper wheel) gum, 1.1 toys or candy. I would start out selling only gum. Dont get to fancy until you learn the ropes.

 

All triples will do is waste product. i know that there will be all kinds of protests and arguements that good locations exist for triples but for every location that will support a triple there are 100 that will support a single.

[SRC]

Thanks for the encouragement!  I will be sure to tell my husband that many people who have been in this business for a while are in favor of the single machines.  As of now, I can get Northwestern 60's at Sams for about $82 including tax and shipping.  I don't know if that is a good price or not, but it's been the best I can find online.  I need to contact A&A to get their pricing for the PO89, because I did like the look of those as well.  Where do all of you get your stands?  Are most stands made standard to fit all machines or do I need to get specific stands for specific machines?  I think I will start out with a few single stands and then the plates I saw that you can attach to turn a single stand into a double.  Then we could put in either singles or doubles depending on what may fit best at each location.  I'm perfectly fine to go away from the triples.  I also wondered whether or not it would be too much candy in some locations.

[Jax Snacks]

To add to musser’s great advice and to stir the pot up a bit more!  Multi-select candy bulk vending is not a good model to have today.  I started in 2000 with 4-select candy machines and it was product over kill.  Too much wasted product and wasted time managing all the different candy inventories and not enough profit.   Today I stock just 2 food products – Runts and Gumballs.  So yea, its singles and doubles for me in charity spots.  Very simple and quick servicing and good margin with that model.

 

Avoid chocolate products!  Too expensive and fragile.  You will end up throwing out too much product – especially in a southern climate.  Avoid the Siren’s song of Peanut M&Ms!  Sure they will generate quarters, but not much profit after the high product cost and eventual waste.  Now THAT will stir up the noobs a bit.  But ask any senior vendor with over 7 years’ experience and most will say to avoid Peanut M&Ms.  Of course I stocked lots of PMM as a young vendor myself, but no longer!

 

I mostly run NW 60’s and very happy with them.  But they are a bit expensive today.  But I would concur that the Oaks or A&A PO89’s are probably the best starting point for charity machines in today’s economy.   As others have stated, go with the removable panels rather than the globes.   The panel version requires fewer product inventories, but is expandable for higher volume spots.  I would also recommend to buy just new machines to start with since you have too many other issues to deal with.  Used machines may require refurbishing and repairs and part replacements and new locks – a hassle you would rather not deal with when just starting out.   If I had to start over again today, that is probably what I would do.

 

The pipe stands are universal.  Most here use Quill.com to purchase Runts in 30 pound boxes.  Quill also sells pipe stands as well.  Plus Quill has free shipping!

 

I see you are in North Carolina.  Maybe you should consider taking a trip to A&A (near Baltimore) since you are not that far away and that is another way to save on shipping on some orders.  If you make the trip to A&A, also consider getting Oak Leaf (Bubble King) gumballs (again no shipping).  Many on here would say that Oak Leaf gum is superior (and longer lasting) to Concord’s Dubble Bubble at Sam’s Club.

 

One you have mastered single/double candy/gumball charity, and then maybe consider toys, tattoos, used machines, racks and commission vending later on.

 

Of course, just my opinion on a very slow day with way “Too Much Time on My Hands”!  Always do your own due diligence and gather as much input and knowledge as you can.  Best regards.

 

Yep, a longer than usual post for me on a slow day indeed with….

 

“Too much time on my hands, it's ticking away at my sanity
I've got too much time on my hands, it's hard to believe such a calamity
I've got too much time on my hands and it's ticking away from me
Too much time on my hands, too much time on my hands
Too much time on my hands”

[Pyrodude]

“Too much time on my hands, it's ticking away at my sanity

I've got too much time on my hands, it's hard to believe such a calamity

I've got too much time on my hands and it's ticking away from me

Too much time on my hands, too much time on my hands

Too much time on my hands”

HA!  Been missing your lyrics lately..... 

[caserri]

HA! Been missing your lyrics lately.....

Agreed. I thought our jaxbox was out of order.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[moondog]

Agreed. I thought our jaxbox was out of order.

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Good thing he's not into Black Sabbath 

[orsd]

You can also consider usEd machines, just do your homework and be diligent

I wouldn't pay over25 for a completely route ready machines, with all parts except locks

[SRC]

Thanks for all the suggestions, it sounds like the single machines are the way to go! I looked up stands on quill.com and saw the Selectivend stand. It looks great, but is it really only 20 1/2 inches high? That seemed really short - with a 17 inch machine, that is only 37 1/2 inches tall and I have yet to see a machine that short. I'm hoping it's just a misprint, because it also lists it as 20 inches wide, I believe. If not, is there anywhere else to get taller stands that won't kill me on shipping?

[sherlock]

The stands I use are mostly at 24" and 30" tall.

They were purchased through A&A.

I actually prefer the 24" variety.

 

Taller is not always better.

A low center of gravity is good for avoiding tip-overs.

 

I do have a few of the stands you are considering purchasing and they are not bad.

20" may sound low but remember that you want the machines easily accessible to your customers who are disabled and to children, too.

 

Personally, I have no problem with 20" stands.

 

If you go with A&A global, I recommend the 24" stand.

And though you may be paying for shipping through A&A and not through Quill, ordering several stands will come to about the same price through A&A as through Quill because the price for the stand at A&A is about $10 cheaper per stand.

 

[shepherdsflock]

I'd go with A&A PO89 singles. I prefer selling 1" toys out of them with 50 cent coin mechanisms. If you just can't spend the extra money for the 50 cent mechanism, then sell gumballs. Of all my locations (50+), I only have one location that sells a decent amount of candy. It's in a 4 head rack, and only one of those heads is candy. Candy is a pain and you'll quickly learn to hate it. You end up throwing away too much of it due to it going stale or spoiling before it all sells in most locations. Toys are far simpler to deal with.

[SRC]

So which of the PO89's do you recommend? There is the 300, 450, and small panel head. I was considering the 450, but when those of you mention the ones with panels, I take it you mean the small panel head? I hadn't even looked at that one because the online catalog has it filled with toys, so for whatever reason I thought it was more appropriate for toys. But I personally like the boxed look more than the globes, so if the small panel head is preferable, then I may go with that one. I just need to get prices on them since the quote I got was for the 450. My husband and I really like the look of the Northwestern Super 60, but I'd rather start out with a less expensive machine, maybe try out some Northwesterns later. So maybe the small panel PO89 could be a compromise.

[Hillbilly]

So which of the PO89's do you recommend? There is the 300, 450, and small panel head. I was considering the 450, but when those of you mention the ones with panels, I take it you mean the small panel head? I hadn't even looked at that one because the online catalog has it filled with toys, so for whatever reason I thought it was more appropriate for toys. But I personally like the boxed look more than the globes, so if the small panel head is preferable, then I may go with that one. I just need to get prices on them since the quote I got was for the 450. My husband and I really like the look of the Northwestern Super 60, but I'd rather start out with a less expensive machine, maybe try out some Northwesterns later. So maybe the small panel PO89 could be a compromise.

The small panel heads is correct.  They are the most versatile machine out there.  You can buy extra capacity backs that will fit on the back and both sides if needed.  The flat plexiglass is great because you can buy replacement at Lowes or Home Depot and they are really tough.  Last ones I bought from A&A were with the .50 mechs and they were about $56 each.

[orsd]

The panel ones are more for toys than candy because they hold more

It can work and doesn't really matter but just a consideration

[sherlock]

I have both panel and the 450 models.

I like both -- you really can't go wrong with either.

The panels are great for putting on displays (much easier to slide a panel out and attach display) and for adding extra capacity.

The 450 is better for product display IMO....just looks better with those rounded corners.

And even though the panels can be removed for cleaning on the panel head po89, the 450 po89 is actually easier to clean when giving it a thorough cleaning because there are fewer nooks and crannies (important when doing any edible products).

 

 

[Hillbilly]

The panel ones are more for toys than candy because they hold more

It can work and doesn't really matter but just a consideration

 

Not correct.  The flat panel machines without the excap's will hold less product than a 450 globe.  With the excaps they will hold the same.  Therefore it doesn't take as much to fill up, allowing you to purchase less product.

 

I too run all 3 styles.  The 300 globe, 450 globe, and the flat panel.  Making the PO89 or Oak the most versatile machine available. Can do any configuration. Singles, doubles, triples, or racks. Can even mount to a counter.

 

I use the 300 globe for candy, 450 globe for toys and GB, and the flat panels for most of my racks.

[will.vend]

Great thread... And really good advice from the veterans on this one, I will reiterate the small panel head machine, it is the one one that I use and highly recommend it.

Use the triples you have but start buying singles as advised, even though it's a triple I would only fill 2 of the heads with runts and gumballs. You have just been given free advice from several of the most successful vendors that participate on this forum. I concur with musser about single gumballs, if I could do it over that would be my business model good luck!

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[FrCorey]

true. single machines are better.

plus, you can buy mods to add up to 3 machines to a stand.

i.e. a new base plate you bolt on the stand that will accept 1, 2 or 3 machines.

and with the machines you can choose your own product wheels.

vend any type of gum, candy or small capsules.

[havending]

The panel ones are more for toys than candy because they hold more

It can work and doesn't really matter but just a consideration

The large globe will hold more product so you would want the small panel for candy. Using the small globe you can also fit one more than normal on the bottom.

[orsd]

I stand corrected

i always assumed the cabs held more for some reason...thanks for the correction musser and havending

[musser]

Autally on the Oak Vista (or A&A PO89 ) panel the capacity of the small panel head with one cab back is almost the same as the 450 globe and far more versitile. I do have a bunch of 300 globe machines, they are great for most locations, especially if you run 1430 gum.

[SnackOn]

SRC -  Good luck to you! I am also just starting out in Charlotte, NC. What area of NC are you in?

 

I went with used triples, simply because I need to place immediately, and it was taking so long to get machines any other way. I imagine I will be swapping them out over time...

 

 

[SRC]

SRC -  Good luck to you! I am also just starting out in Charlotte, NC. What area of NC are you in?

 

I went with used triples, simply because I need to place immediately, and it was taking so long to get machines any other way. I imagine I will be swapping them out over time...

 

We're in Greensboro right now, but may be moving to Chapel Hill this summer.  I won't know for another month or so if we'll be moving, and we don't plan on placing any machines yet until we know where we will be, so I've got some time to get all of this planned out.  Good luck to you as well!

 

This is all such great advice, I wish I had read up here before I bought these two used Vendstars.  But live and learn, at least we didn't spend much money and my kids are getting a kick out of using quarters to get candy from the machine we have set up, lol.  I think I decided to order 2 of the PO89 300s, one for candy and one for gumballs with 25 cent mech and 1 PO89 panel for capsules with 50 cent mech.  That way I can get a look at each type of machine and if we decide we like the panel better we'll just get those from now on.  I will probably get a 450 soon, but maybe just for gumballs on a single stand, since that will last longer than candy.  The 300 sounds like a good one to start on for candy, I'm thinking 2 300s on a double stand of candy and gumballs could be a good setup for some locations.  I know peanut M&Ms are either a blessing or a curse, but I might start out with them anyhow, we can get a 56 oz bag at Sams for $8.88 here.  But I may change my mind after we mess around with the machine settings, weights, and work out the costs.  If not those, I'm thinking Skittles could be a good alternative.  I'm leaning towards Bubble King assorted gumballs over Dubble Bubble - DB is cheaper at Sams, but everyone seems to love Bubble King more, so it might be worth the extra cost.  Sound like a good plan?

 

Ah, but toys.  Who knows what we are thinking with that.  Hubby really wants to vend toys, I'm on the fence about it, but I figure it doesn't hurt to get a few machines and 1 inch toys on hand, just in case he's able to find some good locations for toys.  It just seems like we'd need to do toys on commission, and I'm not sure about going down that road yet.  But I know I need to keep an open mind about it because most of you seem to like toys and do a lot on commission, and no one is going to let us put up a rack for charity.  The more I read up here, the more I am drawn to toys!  If we can actually sell 1" toys for 50 cents, then the profit is good.  And the idea of having a product that you don't have to worry about melting or going stale is very tempting.  I'm even thinking about maybe focusing on gumballs in most locations, just because they seem to be more durable than candy.  But we shall see.  I'm just excited to have finally made a decision about machines to try out.  And it only took a week, lol.  Thanks for all the suggestions - any input is always appreciated.