PinkFloydEffect Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I am located in MA, I love the combination of mechanics and electronics in vending machines and it is unfortunate that the arcade age has come and gone so I do PC repair I am 24. I wanted to start vending on the side of computer work after realize how easy it is to do but I realize there is a crowded market that can get viscous? I work in a factory too that has a few shifts and two vending machines when I realized the $ here, its just an old man that owns the machines he makes a good profit for one location. I then found how cheap they are on craigslist as far as I know all I need is to register with state and federal then get a vending licence? All machines old or somewhat new can be retrofitted and modified to gain attention and beat competitor machines (which is where I heard the vandalism comes in). I have noticed in the recent years how much nicer products look in store chillers now that they have upgraded the lights in the same units to LEDs which would be especially good for the older snack vending machines that can be bought cheap and repainted. The other thing I haven't seen done is retrofitting computers into old machines and putting them all on a network....yes Barebone computers can be had in my case doing PC repair all but free, with WiFi being everywhere now I can get most my machines on a giant network even if I need to use network extenders and a Bi-Quad inside in the machine. Even paying a local business to use their WiFi is cheaper then a 4G unit monthly rent ($50) I am confident in getting connection to the internet almost everywhere, this opens up many advantages on my part! The biggest is statistics so I know when things are sold out (or almost sold out) without having to go to the site, even fine statistics like peak selling times and dates if I wanted to stripe a rack with two different things such as breakfast then dinner to maximize profits without running out and lock out another until one was emptied etc. I can monitor tampering too all this can be done with a simple Maestro or Arduino, HD webcams are cheap now and can monitor for security as well as other machines to compare competition. I know people who write Facebook and Twitter apps and could do me a favor and I could even sell the WiFi itself since its already at the machine (if permitted) give out something like 15min of WiFi with a purchase to use on mobile phones for break areas. The whole computer system hardware cost would be something like $250 for a machine tops and in the right area I think might take off and certainly prove useful on my part to say the least. Anyone want to spend their change and share their thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I'm going to bite on this. Welcome to the forum, great classic band name. You are correct in some of your assumptions. The "Old Man" who's operating the machines in your employer's breakroom is using machines that probably aren't the latest and greatest and they might be downright ugly. However you can't fault him for this as the "clean, filled and working" mantra of vending is probably being met, as is your need for snacks and drinks when you want them - and probably at a very fair price. You should also not assume he's making a "good profit" for one location. Not being in the business for many years, as your vendor likely has, you don't yet know what goes into making a profit in vending. Our industry has already moved beyond the dull, drab machines of yore with LED lighting, credit card acceptance and real-time sales monitoring already available to every vendor who chooses to make those investments in their machines. All you need to do is read past postings in this forum as there have been tons of conversations about those upgrades and their viability in vending locations of all types and sizes. That is not to say that there isn't a different way to do these things, so you could be onto something very workable. I'm not poo pooing your ideas as this industry can always benefit from people your age with vision and an excitement about vending. Just make sure you have a complete understanding of the industry so that you don't blindly jump in trying to change the model of vending and find out all of the money you spend was for nothing, or that all of your business could have been obtained with the cheap machines you can find on Craigslist without doing any fancy upgrading to them. Wouldn't that be a rude awakening? One rule of thumb that has never changed in this business is that the key to success is location, location, location. Sometimes the bells and whistles can't beat the quality of the location your machines are in. Again, welcome to the forum, and good luck to you when you start vending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I am located in MA, I love the combination of mechanics and electronics in vending machines and it is unfortunate that the arcade age has come and gone so I do PC repair I am 24. I wanted to start vending on the side of computer work after realize how easy it is to do but I realize there is a crowded market that can get viscous? I work in a factory too that has a few shifts and two vending machines when I realized the $ here, its just an old man that owns the machines he makes a good profit for one location. I then found how cheap they are on craigslist as far as I know all I need is to register with state and federal then get a vending licence? All machines old or somewhat new can be retrofitted and modified to gain attention and beat competitor machines (which is where I heard the vandalism comes in). I have noticed in the recent years how much nicer products look in store chillers now that they have upgraded the lights in the same units to LEDs which would be especially good for the older snack vending machines that can be bought cheap and repainted. The other thing I haven't seen done is retrofitting computers into old machines and putting them all on a network....yes Barebone computers can be had in my case doing PC repair all but free, with WiFi being everywhere now I can get most my machines on a giant network even if I need to use network extenders and a Bi-Quad inside in the machine. Even paying a local business to use their WiFi is cheaper then a 4G unit monthly rent ($50) I am confident in getting connection to the internet almost everywhere, this opens up many advantages on my part! The biggest is statistics so I know when things are sold out (or almost sold out) without having to go to the site, even fine statistics like peak selling times and dates if I wanted to stripe a rack with two different things such as breakfast then dinner to maximize profits without running out and lock out another until one was emptied etc. I can monitor tampering too all this can be done with a simple Maestro or Arduino, HD webcams are cheap now and can monitor for security as well as other machines to compare competition. I know people who write Facebook and Twitter apps and could do me a favor and I could even sell the WiFi itself since its already at the machine (if permitted) give out something like 15min of WiFi with a purchase to use on mobile phones for break areas. The whole computer system hardware cost would be something like $250 for a machine tops and in the right area I think might take off and certainly prove useful on my part to say the least. Anyone want to spend their change and share their thoughts? Welcome to the forum. While you have some interesting ideas, my advise would be to get a few machines located yourself so you can completely understand the nuts and bolts of the business. Once you've done this you'll be much better prepared to venture into the next wave of vending solutions you're describing. And who knows? You might even invent the next big vending technology advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Yes I understand the machines at work are very functional and serve their purpose, a newer or nicer machine wont change profits alone BUT they might change profits when siting next to another machine or pursuay a company owner to switch their vending to you. I really just need to get a few machines, place them well and make a start. I can do the computer and networking modifications as needed down the line and if I had multiple machines within one room then only one needs a computer expense the rest can be linked to the machine with the computer in it by simply having a Maestro or Arduino in the others which are connected to the up to over 30+ sensors in each machine, then a simple USB cable can link the machines together (controller board in the machine(s) linked to the machine with the computer in it). This would save the cost of individual computers and WiFi networking hardware such as a Bi-Quads, not to mention even the webcams can be linked without the need of computer hardware in each machine within a room. I would not even need to run a separate cable between machines for cameras because if you use a USB hub in the machines then you only need a single cable to link hubs, then cameras and controller boards can be plugged into that hub within a machine (technically you can connect up to 127 cameras and controller boards combined into a single USB chain but this raises questions of bandwidth at that maximum amount of devices). This could even be made easier with multiple machines within a single complex or building if I used a wireless USB hub which generally supports 4 devices (2 cameras and 2 controller boards -or- 1 camera and 3 controller boards, etc). In short to recap I could have a fullsize machine close to a main office or a part in the building with WiFi which would have a barebone computer in it with a wired USB hub, that would have a bunch of USB receivers plugged into the hub the same style that look like thumb drives for your wireless mouse/keyboard. Those small wireless USB receivers are each for even a counter-top machine with no room for a computer in other rooms or floors of the building, the hubs each have controller boards and cameras plugged into them which all combined (cameras/controllers/wireless hubs) use less power then a separate computer in each machine even if it had the room. I am spilling all my secrets I am seriously going to try to patent this system I know some people that can help with that end. I am also big on filtering the ventilation intake air into the cabinet so these things would stay self maintained for quite a long time and clean on the inside, even if this technology is already integrated into new top of the line machines I can convert any machine with ease using all plug and plug components that are already mass-produced this is my field of study to begin with. Thanks for any opinions, if my Cheerio's are not pissed in then I can't view my ideas from outside the box. I will toy with simple machines and locations, the most concerned I am is about selling products or certain brands that are not allowed for resale? Does that only apply to a product that has to say not for resale on the side? Do products I sell have to be purchased from a vending company for resale? I still need to get that kind of information straight first but in the meantime I am going to start building a prototype system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Please do not make the assumption this is an easy high profit business. Because it is not, it is difficult and often highly competitive. You see a large mark up but you are do not see all costs. Lots of people can and do fail to make a profit in this business. I think you will find the IT departments in most business are very resisted opening their network to any connections outside their control as they see every one as a security risk. Generally remote monitoring runs about 13.00 dollars a month given the very low bandwidth needed. Most locations can not generate enough revenue justify that expense. Most locations will recognize a Craig’s list machine with a new paint job and LED lights as the 30 year old POS it is. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I understand this, which is why it is a side project that I would actually enjoy doing/running. I am intelligent enough to realize this market requires some planning and thought to be profitable at all. Yes I already suspect this as a problem, I am not setting up vending machines at IT offices and where I am located the majority of the businesses "IT departments" are a joke at best. There are many ways to get access or branch out access to the internet without compromising a given network, all I need is one machine online at a given location. The $13 a month would be about $0 a month and provide far more then your traditional remote monitoring, also the $ here too is in implementing this system in other venders older machines for a profit. I guess this really depends on location as most of the places around here with many employees are dumpy and have dumpy machines anyway, so a tricked out dumpy machine next to one of those is better then nothing right? As another person stated a machine in a factory that serves its purpose will make the same amount of profit anyway. Next time you see competitions machine think twice because there just might be a camera in it haha then I will legally take your machine in court. The advantage of this is I run a computer company anyway, and my friend owns a larger networking company so a few welly placed modified machines online is worth my time over a large amount of cheap machines all over the place. Already managing a business myself I know there are two ways of doing business for the same profit, more work for less money or less work for more money; find the golden line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparta_Automation Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Remember the KISS theory.....Traditional vending works for a reason. You are obviously technically savvy as shown in your posts, but, in my opinion you are trying to muddy the water....when the water is fine. Get a nice, used, but refurbished machine, locate it, fill it, service it and install tried and true methods of monitoring (if you want that feature), cashless transaction capabilities (if warranted by the location) and you will do fine. All of the other items will cause overhead, headaches and extra time that will not provide the ROI once you factor in your time. Travis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Its a bit of a novelty right now, I am going to start off simple but not giving up on the idea because it's not trying hard for me this is stuff I enjoy tinkering with anyway. Local tire shop does not have any machines and they agreed to allow me to put a machine there where people wait for 10% profit, these opportunities are all around here. This is how I assume vending machines work drinks or snacks, there is a low voltage analog signal from the touch-pad board or button that goes to a relay, which allows more power to a vending motor be that to spin a coil or release a beverage (negatives most likely grounded) . This is the first of two ways the simple link to an Arduino can be made, this one being a definite at last choice I would say. The Arduino channels need a digital PWM pulse signal to operate I believe so an LM-IC chip is needed between the motor and Arduino channels to convert the signal, assuming the machines operate on 12V motors I would also need a resistor since both the converter and Arduino operate on I believe 5V. This is the more preferred way staying on the low voltage side if possible, everything stays the same minus a resistor and working with most likely 5V. Now there are aftermarket WiFi boards for the Arduino such as the red one with a standoff for an external antenna which will be useful for something like an omnidirectional bi-quad WiFi antenna. Does anyone want to chime in on my electrical theory? Like I said I am still going to tinker with prototypes because granted you are all intimidated by the approach and setup of an internet connection on these machines I take it as a challenge and it only gets easier and easier every year, once established its 100% free unlimited live monitoring and even remote control functions such as individual rack or coil lockout/reset/power/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Every circuit in a single price soda machine is 110V. If it's a multiprice machine then the motors will be 110V but there are multiple voltages in the logic circuits. The snack machines all use 24v motors. Keep in mind that you could make this machine unusable for anyone you might want to sell it to when you get tired of tinkering with it. None of this stuff will interest a normal vending operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Thanks for the info! This system would not affect normal operation it could go about normal vending even with all this wired in, it can also be easily removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 someone one modded a dixienarco e seriesto accept custom cards google "avbrand drink machine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walta Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 No relay in most machines made after 1975. The attached file is typical they are using a matrix to control 100 motors and monitor each motors position using only 30 wires. Adding loads to this type of circuit will likely be detected by the computer and logged as an error and shut down the machine. Walta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technivend Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I'll throw in my 2 cents here. First I love technology and love the idea of anything that will bring it to this industry. That being said the industry isn't very tech freindly. Take for example the vendor you have at your place of work. What technology is he using? Remote monitoring? Credit cards? Led lights? Vend sensors? Any of this? Most people don't remember Realtime Data who brought remote monitoring to the industry back in the early 90's. Here we are in 2014 and it is still under utilized. We have available touch screens, facial recognition, m commerce and many other things that aren't received well. I would love to hear more about what you are doing but would warn you to expect a long uphill battle. Welcome to the forums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 I am here for the uphill battle lol I think this is because remote monitoring requires a network and a widespread network can be very expensive until you utilize the free world wide network which is easier and easier to get on and is everywhere now. I was getting new tires at the tire shop and the owner said he would gladly allow me to install a machine and I said they are online and report to me what has been sold and what is going to run out and he was like wow your free to use my WiFi! I would not be adding loads to the circuitry what so ever so please do not confuse that with tapping them for a signal reference. 24V motors? Are they 24VAC or 24VDC?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 24V DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkFloydEffect Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Thanks! I spoke to the guy at work today as I saw him loading the machine again, casually asked him about his job he said he worked for McDonald's vending for a while I am assuming non-coin operated vending machines. Then he had a kid and needed to go off on his own to make better hours so he claims he has over 600 machines and he is about $100,000 into it in machine cost. I am going to catch him again and put my idea forward, maybe let him know I was thinking about entering the market to see if he has any employment opportunities for me he seems like a really nice guy someone like that would not feel threatened by me he is too deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leonardobsi Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hello everyone, I'm trying to do the same thing, I purchased two vending machines for test, one to snacks and one to soft drink, I don't received the vendings yet, but the purchase was to development. I have the software developed for Android, made by me, follow the prints: I have the web server for Arduino communicating. Who wants sharing ideas, contact me: leonardobsi@gmail.com Regards, Leonardo S. http://www.leeo.com.br https://play.google.com/store/search?q=pub:Leeo+TI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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