AZVendor Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 You might have the wrong inner door on the machine unless all the labels including the wiring diagram and the wire numbers match to what is in your machine. Sometimes people replace damaged inner doors but they aren't correct for a specific main door. You could still have hinge problems or maybe the discharge port is installed incorrectly. Also check for a bent delivery door wire hinge or a broken delivery door frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 By itself, the inner door and the delivery door appeared fine. The only thing that appeared different was the port. I gave in and shaved the delivery door and the port a little. It was not hanging up when I left. Can inner doors be replaced? More importantly, can delivery door frames be replaced? I mean are replacements made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Yes, most of these parts are still available. It's possible that your delivery port was warped by heat or poor installation. Are the corners of your port square or rounded? The rounded ports tended to warp. Now I'm referring to the actual tunnel portion of the port, not the frame on the front of the door. If your door flap now moves freely and all it's edges cover the delivery door frame then you should be good without replacing anything as this will ensure no air leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Well.. the door does not seal properly as the frame is bent outward toward the evaporator. It has an airleak regardless. It seals much better than it did when it was hung up by about a one inch gap though. The port had rounded edges, no sharp edges and it did seem warped. I couldn't really fix the port as the warped feature was permanent. Regardless of that, the port and the delivery door seemed misaligned. The port looks like it should have about a quarter inch gap on either side but all of the gap was on one side and not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The gap on one side and not the other is indicative of the inner door mounting problem. Did you check that your lower hinge, though tight, isn't bent outward away from the door edge? This is caused by the inner door getting caught on the inside of the cabinet as you open the main door which, in turn, is caused by the burst-open latch not holding the two doors together. If your delivery door is also warped and not sealing against the frame I can send you a new one with the other parts you ordered (shipping them on Tuesday). If it's the delivery door frame itself that's warped, I can send you that. Your frame is probably riveted to your inner door, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 The gap on one side and not the other is indicative of the inner door mounting problem. Did you check that your lower hinge, though tight, isn't bent outward away from the door edge? This is caused by the inner door getting caught on the inside of the cabinet as you open the main door which, in turn, is caused by the burst-open latch not holding the two doors together. If your delivery door is also warped and not sealing against the frame I can send you a new one with the other parts you ordered (shipping them on Tuesday). If it's the delivery door frame itself that's warped, I can send you that. Your frame is probably riveted to your inner door, correct? Yes, it is riveted, which is why I'm not sure if the frame can be replaced without replacing the whole door. The bottom hinge did not appear bent. I couldn't tell without completely unscrewing the bottom hinge but I really didn't want to go through that and have trouble mounting the door later, so I just lifted it up to inspect what I could see. If the door is bent, It's probably bent in a direction toward the t handle as the large gap between the port and delivery door is on the right side. It seems like it would be the other way around if it got hung up on the cabinet. The door seal did extend beyond the cabinet door (outer door) but that seemed like it was by design and it appeared symmetrical from top to bottom. On the other hand, the port seems warped. I really think the port is warped. It looks like a pretty old 368. It even has the weird hinged case that holds the coinmech. You have to open the little hinged piece to access the coinmech. I'm going to pass on parts for this right now because this account is selling about 200-250 cans in two weeks right now and I have a royal 650 just sitting around. I'd love to add water, juice, and monster to this account. If it doesn't freeze up again, I will leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I'm assuming it's from the box that the door swings through. There are rub marks. I'm not sure how to fix it as I dont know the cause LOL I usually put my foot in it and give a good shove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 When I get a service call not cooling here is what a do to troubleshoot. If I am talking to the customer on the phone and they say it is hot I ask them if it is like really hot or room temp? Really hot like 100 degrees. If it is that means the Temp control has failed or the compressor has failed. The reason its 100 + degrees is the evaporator fan is heating the cabinet. If they say it is room temp that tells me that its froze up, Condensor fan motor has failed or compressor is low on charge. As I am walking up to vendor I will listen to see if I can hear compressor and observe the surroundings like is it against the wall are there things stacked around it ETC. If you can hear compressor running does it sound normal? A loud whining noise can possibly mean the condenser fan motor has failed and the compressor is working to hard. Then when I open the vendor I look for frost or ice. No ice but cool. Feel the condenser is it hot hot. If so bad fan motor. If cool listen for short cycling and check to see if fan is running. If it is running then most likely bad compressor. If it isn't running then tap cold control and see if it comes on. If it does then a bad control. The newer cooling decks that use Embraco compressors are wired so the condenser fan motor won't run when the compressor doesn't. 50% or more of these you will find that the wiring has burned up inside the cap. They stuff all those wires in there to tight. The connectors are cheap and will arc within the cap and burn the wires up. So it may be all that is wrong with it. Some of the others use cheap parts and they will also burn up. So if you are replacing a cooling deck always take cap off and check. And always unplug the compressor before doing so. You should know within 5 to 10 minutes what is wrong. I will try and put something together in more detail about the refrigeration cycle soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I found this youtube video thats says it better than I can. All I would add is the expansion valve he is talking about you most likely will only find on cold, frozen food or cup drop soda machines. All others are capillary tubes. Or that thin copper tube that is coiled on either or both ends. Side note do not let your car mechanic work on your cooling deck. They will over charge the unit and when this happens it will push the oil into the cap tube and plug it up. Low side is usually 5lbs with no air going through the evaporator and 12-18 lbs when air is moving. When the condenser fan motor quits the gas can't be returned to a liquid therefore it can't remove the heat. It will get to a point no liquid at all. This a short but good video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 LOL I usually put my foot in it and give a good shove. I promise you, I gave it some good kicks. I was just afraid to break something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Sometimes the cheapest way to fix those old warped chutes is to take a hammer foot etc and break the plastic on the upper corners. It is on the outside of the inner door and isn't going to affect anything. You will find these on old Dixies a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Normally when installing a new cooling deck I will plug the deck in and make sure it is starting to cool before I get everything back together. You should under normal conditions start seeing frost forming on cap tube (top of evaporator) and start moving across the top of the evaporator. If there is any question about the decks condition unplug the evaporator fan motor. The evaporator should frost completely up and the frost line should go outside and underneath the cabinet. If the pop inside is extremely hot and it is extremely hot inside or outside the business it is possible there will be no frost. In this situation you will want to unplug the evaporator fan motors to see any frost. Also bottles can handle the heat and will lose their seal and lose their carbonation. If this happens then all the bottles will have to be removed. It takes a Bottle vendor 8 or mores hours to cool down to 40 degrees when all the pop is hot. If you are filling a vendor in the heat of the day and it is empty no one gets a cold pop for several hours..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Here is another video that explains the refrigeration process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 This is a good start so far, how about someone posting some pics of complete system and labeling the components with a brief explanation of what role they play in the whole system. I think a lot of newer guys would love to better know the terminology so they could ask better questions. I have been working on something like this but don't know the official names of the various parts. So if I post pictures to the gallery can everyone help me name them properly. For example: Is the copper bulb looking thing in this picture called the accumulator, or if not then what is it called? also Is the thing that the soakers go in called a drip pan, drain pan or something else? If it is called a drip pan or drain pan then what is the thing above it that has the hole in it that allows the water to drain in to the thing that holds the soakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The large bulb is called the accumulator, the drain pan is called that and the tube that exits the cabinet is the drain or drain tube, not to be confused with the drain hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 What does the acumulator do? Whats the thing the soakers are in called then? Whats the difference in the drain tube & drain hose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The large bulb is called the accumulator, the drain pan is called that and the tube that exits the cabinet is the drain or drain tube, not to be confused with the drain hose. Still not sure what you meant by this: "the tube that exits the cabinet is the drain or drain tube, not to be confused with the drain hose" so again whats the difference in the drain tube & drain hose? What does the accumulator do? Whats the thing the soakers are in called then? Whats the difference in the drain tube & drain hose? After further research I answered several of my own questions 1. What does the accumulator do? Answer: definition with pictures: 2. What is the thing the soakers are in called then? Answer: condensate pan The thing that the upper part of the drain hose/tube? attaches to, appears to be be called the evaporator tray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 The drain is the plastic tube that fits in the hole in the bottom of the tank, which is the the bottom of the refrigerated cabinet. The drain is held in place with a large nut - metal on DN machines or plastic on Vendo machines. The plastic nut will also fit the DN drain tubes. A hose is affixed to the drain and carries condensation down to the drain pan, or condensate pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Last Friday I went back to the machine & it was still freezing up. They are closed on weekends so I unplugged the machine & they said that they would plug it back in the following Monday. While I was there here is what I did. I checked behind the machine & it was only about 3 to maybe 4 inches away from the wall, so I moved it about 6 inches away from the wall & swept all of this crap out from behind the machine. It's in an Oklahoma Department or Transportation garage so I also moved a bunch of road signs & whatnot that were leaning up against the sides of the machine. T I also used their air hose to blow out all of the dust from around & inside the machine. It was pretty dirty & forgot to take before pictures I did get a picture of the condenser after blowing all the dust off of it but it really wasn't that dirty in the first place. I will going back to the machine tomorrow morning to see if what I did last week made a difference. One more thing . . . I can't remember where I read or heard that this cold control had issues (I think one or my Pepsi repair techs may have told me). Has anyone else heard that, or can you provide some documentation to validate this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The room behind the machine should have been fine unless there was garbage piled up behind the machine blocking the entire lower back - doubtful. The roll up condenser style like yours is designed to not clog with dirt so even if it was real dirty there would have been sufficient air flow through it assuming the fan is running strong. The thermostat you have is normal for that machine and should be set to 3 1/2 from the zero position. I'm sure your compressor is low on freon and needing a recharge. The ice is the actual giveaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Would you say that the coiled type of condenser works better than this type? In your opinion is one better than the other? What are the pros vs cons of each? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The roll up condensers were developed to eliminate the fact that the old style condensers would clog up so easily. I have no idea which style is actually more efficient for heat transfer but I'm sure they have similar heat transfer characteristics. The roll up condenser was used on all their later machines like the E models and the Bevmax 559x series up until the end of Dixie actually building their own cooling units. They now use European-built condensing units using sub-standard Danfoss components. You will see on the current production machines that they again use the horizontal tube-through-fin style of condensers, but the fins are farther apart now to try keeping them from clogging up. In my opinion the current condensers are harder to clean because you can't drag a comb down the fins to pull the dirt off, but they don't clog often either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The rollups name is called Lint Free.......... Look at the SN and if the last letter is a V or W (indicates the year) they had a rash of bad evaporators. Those evaporators had little pin holes in them that couldn't be fixed. Also that style of cold control had a recall. I would replace it just to be safe. The unit is low on freon. True Manufacturing maker of glass door coolers developed a condenser fan motor using a special motor that will reverse direction. It runs one direction for several hours and then reverses letting it blow out anything in condenser. I retrofitted some BevMax's and a few AMS coldfood. Best system I have seen. I have a few customers that cut foam like you use on window AC's and attach it to the condenser and replace it every six months. AMS attach to the bottom of the vendor unless you like taking that dog house off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojorhino Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think posting a video on how to leak check cooling units is going to make every average Joe think that they can do the job when in reality you can't unless you have the correct tools and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.