Good Import?

[dkochan]

If he bought a container he can tell you who made them and that will tell all. So, who made them?

Shunhong is the manufacturer. Do they make good cranes?

[musser]

Not that I know of. I have never seen a quality crane come from the mainland. And as mentioned before with out a distributor you will have very little luck when you need parts.

[hanihotdog]

Musser is correct.  Stay away!!!  You should only consider buying these machines if you are a small electronics nerd that "geeks out" whenever something breaks down!  I would not put one of those on location even if you gave it to me!!  I don't want to scare you, but that machine could be a fire hazard.  We imported 100 light fixtures/bulbs from a reputable company one year ago.  Many of the electronic ballasts melted down within six months!!   Sourcing electronics from Asia was a waste of money, and an expensive lesson, and even worse..  all of our employees were on time and a half when the fixtures were installed!!! 

  We had to remove all of the fixtures and throw them out.  We replaced them with domestic UL certified light fixtures (again employees on time and a half!! ).  We have a local company manufacture them for us.  Remember, business is a no-called-strike game. 

[ronsidney]

I've told the story more that once about shotty chinese cranes catching fire..

 

there are so many good used cranes with a lot of life left in them out there because so many operators have found out that the crane business is not a "scalable" business like it was first thought..

 

cranes cannot be stretched out as far as service goes and numbers stay true..quick description of what I'm talking about

if a cranes does $100 a week if serviced every week and plush rotated then if you 

service once every 2 weeks that will drop to $150 every two weeks

service once every 3 weeks that will drop to $200 every three weeks

once every 4 weeks then it will drop to $250 every 4 weeks

 

reason being…out of every $100 in that small diner etc. probably $50-60 comes directly from employees or very close people to employees that visit that store every day or very often and they see when its fresh and that is only time they play, the thought of "Ill play when that bear right there is on top or i can get it." determines their play.

 

so with this being said there are guys (like me) that once wanted to conquer the world and put out 1000's of cranes and make millions of dollars that have come to the conclusion that really unless you want to have tons of over head and see your margins very thin ,and if you still like the idea of walking away with 50% of your vending business's cash flow…. it aint gonna happen if you get too big!!! and i for one have looked at other avenues that are closer to home and some may not even be vending related to try and conquer the world with!!(hahaha-in my evil villain voice) you can have a smaller route of cranes serviced more regularly and make just as much money as large route or cranes serviced on longer intervals.

 

and since the great recession we are in happened after alot of these cranes where brought here and now so many places are out of business and  the local locations are fewer

 

so right now the used market on good taiwan(toy soldiers or smart toy chests) or american (smart,ice and rainbow) is pretty full.. seen some 42" rainbows go for couple hundred just the other day,,i personally bought back one of my original imports(feiloli) from operator that just got  out of bulk and amusements for a few hundred each,, I didn't need them but i have all the parts and they still have lots of life left in them..

 

I don't see why anybody would roll the dice with new chinese junk these days.

[dkochan]

Where do you find cheap, used cranes? I have not found any near me in the Atlanta area.

[ronsidney]

Where do you find cheap, used cranes? I have not found any near me in the Atlanta area.

Pm me, I know of several in Atlanta for sale .. I might be able to connect you with seller

[havending]

Where do you find cheap, used cranes? I have not found any near me in the Atlanta area.

The auction had several.

[havending]

There is a demand for cheap cranes in GA. Guys are placing with out paper work and playing cat and mouse with the state.

[musser]

Why is it that you cant get a decent fixture in a new import?? I agree 110% about the fixtures. I have replaced every fixture in every crane. And Ron, as usual you are spot on. Things are very different than what we all thought a few years back. Overhead is tough on profit.

[hanihotdog]

Disclaimer: I am only speaking about cranes and bulk..

 

this business is definitely scalable!! If you think outside of the box!  We have a few routes that are once/week two day runs.  Our furthest account is almost 400 mi away!  Service cost (including hotel) is less than 10%.  You need one large hub every 600 miles. (if all routes were linear you could have one every 800 miles).  product cost for a penny pinching company with purchasing power should run in the low %20's in todays market.   commissions should average <30 on mom and pop locations and roughly 40% on large corporate.  Aggregate all of that and you have 30-40% gross margins.  You only need about 3,000 sf of warehouse space for each region, and one part time warehouse person <30hrs/week (warehouse labor is baked into cost of goods sold 20-25%). 

 

I think that the "not scalable" talk comes from one of two things...

 1. owners trying to do too much.. you cant do sales, banking, warehousing, service etc.. and expect to scale!!! 

2.  AND/OR..  having the wrong growth model.. You cannot focus on $50/week mom and pop locations and expect to have a long term sustainable business model.  We are living in "the age of austerity" where less is more, and people don't go out to eat as much.  new market segments such as "fast casual" (five guys, Chipotle, Red Robin etc.) are stealing market share and eroding the lunch/dinner traffic at the local mom and pop diner/restaurants. 

 

Ronny, when I came down to Nashville 7 years ago, you had the wind in your sails and nothing was going to stop you.  YOU HAVE A VERY SPECIAL GIFT OF SALES!!  (what I wouldn't give to have someone like you as a partner/vp of sales)   Also, trying to land and hold "mom and pop" locations will max out around 1M-2M in revenue for the average sales person because attrition on those locations is so high these days.  YOU NEED CORPORATE ACCOUNTS TO SCALE.  I would not think of expanding beyond 150 Mi without considering a corporate agenda.  The time and labor costs would be too great to justify the growth with a mom and pop only strategy. 

 

You are 100% correct, expanding beyond your 40-50% margin territory... or "pasture" <150 miles... will be two steps backwards.  once you establish full routes you will take 3-4 steps forward!!! 

 

When Jerry Lapin took over American coin merchandising he did not target mom and pop accounts.  he went after the corporate, and franchised his brand out to operators that had mom and pop accounts.  He later consolidated all of the mom and pop franchisees under one umbrella and formed "sugarloaf".  his model is still relevant today!!  (even though revenues are not what they were in the 90's)  In two years he grew the company from 168 machines to 3800!!!

 

I think the time is right for medium operators 200-1000 machines to consider consolidating under one brand and target large corporate accounts.  I am not talking about joining the "pelican" group... I don't see how an operator can make money paying 40+% commissions in remote locations with over 6 different machine styles.. all having different parts/settings??  In my opinion, The Pelican/Winstuff dea was a logistical nightmare!  

[musser]

Yea, I think Pelican really stepped in it. I some times wonder if they will survive.

 

Anybody here want some Mission cranes?