jim lee Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'm wondering is there some standard protocol in the internals of vending machines? Thins like; How does a coin changer tell the main board that it has money? How does it tell the bill grabbing thing that it does have change? How does the bill grabber tell the main board it has cash to spend? Is there documents for this stuff somewhere I could read? Thanks! -jim lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Why are you asking for details like this? The devices are all connected with harnesses and communicate with the board based on sensors in each device. The board then determines when a vend can be made and then completes it when the selection is made. Not much to it that you need to worry about. Many of the machine manuals have operations descriptions that can explain this. Look in the older DN and Vendo manuals. Perhaps in a Vendo Univendor 2 manual as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim lee Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, a couple weeks ago I knew nothing at all about vending machines. We're starting to get more and more foot traffic through work, that started me thinking.. "Maybe we can sell 'em drinks?" So on a whim, I bought an old used soda machine. "What the heck"I figured, it might be fun. And so far it has been! Sadly, I've vended all of 3 drinks. One at 1/2 price by accident to my Daughter. And she borrowed the money from me! One to myself. And, my workers bought one and split it. So much for the theory about blue collar workers wanting drinks. Anyway, I'm currently having more fun playing around and learning the guts of this thing than the actual vending part. One thing that surprised me was that the money handling stuff is all modular and purchased from outside vendors. This leads me to believe that they must have, at one time, agreed on how these things should communicate. This led to the thought that if I knew how they communicated, I could even build my own vending machine. That might be a kick in itself. So I asked. I'm guessing, from your reply, this isn't common knowledge. Maybe I could find it in a tech. manual from the people that make the stuff? This does lead me to a vending question though. Payouts, I have a MEI 7000 coin manager. Lets say I actually do sell a bunch of drinks and it fills up. There's a box below it. Does the excess go in there? Do I take out the coin manager and dump it upside down to get the coins out? I tried that and ended up with coins going everywhere! All primary stuff every owner does everyday, but I have never seen this done before. When you service a machine, I understand the drinks bit now, but how do you handle the money bit? Thanks! -jim lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 All very good questions. It would take a lot to explain it all. First lets look at a single price pop machine. I will use a Mars 6800 H single price mech for a example. When a quarter is inserted it will roll down inside the mech on a ramp (called flight deck). The quarter gives of a vibration and produces a ring like a tuning fork. All metals have a ring depending on its shape and thickness. There are coils within the flightdeck that pickup the ring and it can tell what it is. Coin mechs are tuned to recognize each coin and give it a value. Once the vend price is established it will set the credit relay allowing a vend. In the case of the Bill validator it determines if the bill is real by several means. Older ones used a magnetic head that reads the bill. Timing is also part of checking it validity. If it takes to long for the bill to go from start to end then it is rejected. Bad slipping belts can cause this. Once it has determined the bill is good it will send a pulse to coin mech telling it has accepted a valid bill credit is established and change is paid out.. On multi price machines that are using a micromech it is basicly the same except the bill validator communicates directly with control board and the coin mech the same. Micromech are considered dumb mechs their only purpose is to count coin and payout what the board tells it. The coin mech will count and once you have established enough money to allow a vend the board won't allow anymore to be excepted. A vend is made and the board tells the coin mech how much to return to the customer. Newer machines use MDB still basically the same but more sophisticated and do more communications with the control board. They talk back and forth about how much change is in tubes and a variety of things. But in a nut shell this is what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Here is some information on the MDB protocol: A broad, wikipedia overview ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multidrop_bus ) A deeper, more technical look ( http://technical.vending.org/MDB_3.0.pdf ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Anyway, I'm currently having more fun playing around and learning the guts of this thing than the actual vending part. One thing that surprised me was that the money handling stuff is all modular and purchased from outside vendors. This leads me to believe that they must have, at one time, agreed on how these things should communicate. This led to the thought that if I knew how they communicated, I could even build my own vending machine. That might be a kick in itself. So I asked. If you're an electrical engineer, sure. But with the amount of money you'd spend to build your own vending machine, you could buy dozens of brand new ones. I'm guessing, from your reply, this isn't common knowledge. Maybe I could find it in a tech. manual from the people that make the stuff? I posted a couple of links for you. This does lead me to a vending question though. Payouts, I have a MEI 7000 coin manager. Lets say I actually do sell a bunch of drinks and it fills up. There's a box below it. Does the excess go in there? Do I take out the coin manager and dump it upside down to get the coins out? I tried that and ended up with coins going everywhere! All primary stuff every owner does everyday, but I have never seen this done before. When you service a machine, I understand the drinks bit now, but how do you handle the money bit? Yes, once the coin mech fills up, the extra coins go into the coin bucket. With the MEI 7000, you can actually specify the amount of coins you want kept in the coin mech, and direct any over and above that amount to go to the coin bucket. ( And honestly, with a slow machine like that, you probably want pretty minimal coins in the coin mech. ) Here's a link to the Engineer's Manual for the MEI 7000. ( http://www.marap.co.il/pdf/7900/7900manual.pdf ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Why are you asking for details like this? The devices are all connected with harnesses and communicate with the board based on sensors in each device. The board then determines when a vend can be made and then completes it when the selection is made. Not much to it that you need to worry about. Many of the machine manuals have operations descriptions that can explain this. Look in the older DN and Vendo manuals. Perhaps in a Vendo Univendor 2 manual as well. Dang - and all this time I really thought it was magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Well, a couple weeks ago I knew nothing at all about vending machines. We're starting to get more and more foot traffic through work, that started me thinking.. "Maybe we can sell 'em drinks?" So on a whim, I bought an old used soda machine. "What the heck"I figured, it might be fun. And so far it has been! Sadly, I've vended all of 3 drinks. One at 1/2 price by accident to my Daughter. And she borrowed the money from me! One to myself. And, my workers bought one and split it. So much for the theory about blue collar workers wanting drinks. Anyway, I'm currently having more fun playing around and learning the guts of this thing than the actual vending part. One thing that surprised me was that the money handling stuff is all modular and purchased from outside vendors. This leads me to believe that they must have, at one time, agreed on how these things should communicate. This led to the thought that if I knew how they communicated, I could even build my own vending machine. That might be a kick in itself. So I asked. I'm guessing, from your reply, this isn't common knowledge. Maybe I could find it in a tech. manual from the people that make the stuff? This does lead me to a vending question though. Payouts, I have a MEI 7000 coin manager. Lets say I actually do sell a bunch of drinks and it fills up. There's a box below it. Does the excess go in there? Do I take out the coin manager and dump it upside down to get the coins out? I tried that and ended up with coins going everywhere! All primary stuff every owner does everyday, but I have never seen this done before. When you service a machine, I understand the drinks bit now, but how do you handle the money bit? Thanks! -jim lee Jim, We just collect whats in the overflow box. We want to keep our coin mechs full because if they run dry the dollar bill acceptor won't work plus it's a pain in the butt to remount those things sometimes. I always top off my coin mechs from the overflow so I can get an accurate sales number. Once some people realize your machine is there your sales should pick up ....... as long as you don't have it all torn up figuring out how it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim lee Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Guys, Thank you! This was exactly what I was looking for! I have no plans currently for making my own vending machine. But I guess I'm kind of a tech. hoarder. Now I have an entire new line of gadgets I could possibly use to create something. I was planning on asking what this MDB stuff you were all talking about on other threads was. And now I know. Its the communication protocol they all agreed on. Good on ya' Coke! Not electronics, I know a bit of that. More on the software side, done a LOT of that. If you are interested here's where the machine lives : www.leftcoast.biz Thanks agin! -jim lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim lee Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Ok, been reading this stuff. Anyone understand what.. "Universal Satellite Device (USD)" is all about? Can you set up and/or run your machine remotely with this? Thanks! -jim lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral Vending Mechanic Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Ok, been reading this stuff. Anyone understand what.. "Universal Satellite Device (USD)" is all about? Can you set up and/or run your machine remotely with this? Thanks! -jim lee It's a part of the protocol that allows you to have a second machine controlled by the first. So, for example you'd put your money in one machine, but the product would drop from the second. Some USIs and APs use this functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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