Anacapa Vending Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Has nothing to do with how many machines. . Its all about the account. I know an old timer that has a small hospital doing 3k a week. He said he's been fighting canteen off for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 200k a year gross wouldnt take 125 machines. Unless u find crap accounts. You can esily make 200k a year gross with 40 to 60 machines in good decent accounts. We have a winner!! Yes, if you had 60 machines doing an average of $100 each that would be $312,000 a year gross. It would not "net" you $200k but it would be a good amount to make a decent wage. Or think of it as 30 drink/snack accounts doing $200.00 a week gross. That's working 6 accounts a day 5 days a week which is doable. That is what people sometimes don't realize about vending when they "accept" much lower performing accounts. Would I accept an account doing $150 a week instead of $200? Yes I would as long as it is on my way to another account doing $300 a week. It is about averages and in order to get to an acceptable work to investment ration that average needs to be around $100 a week per machine. This average is the only way you are going to keep things manageable to the point you are not having so many headaches with so many machines and accounts to keep up with. This is also how you can build a route with good equipment (new or like new) that you can amortize the payments over a two to four year term and still cash flow correctly. Then at the end you have a route that is worth something if you need to sell because you have nice equipment with a nice positive cash flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Has nothing to do with how many machines. . Its all about the account. I know an old timer that has a small hospital doing 3k a week. He said he's been fighting canteen off for years. We have another winner!!! Its all about the account no matter what. If you have accounts worth having someone is ALWAYS going to be trying to get that business. If not you have accounts that are doing so bad no one wants including yourself if you plan on making a decent living at vending. If the account is worth having more than just you will probably be fighting for it. Vending is so much more complex than most think it is. From find the right accounts to target, how to get them, what equipment to put in them, what products to put in them, how to keep the account, etc, etc, etc. Just a lot more to it than people realize at times. The first chapter in my book I talk about that when I first go into vending. I talk about thinking to myself how hard can vending be? You put some machines on location put in some crackers, cookies, candy, drinks and pull out the money. Wash rinse and repeat. Boy was I wrong on so many levels. After being in vending for about a year I was wrong on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KychrisKy Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I know it all about accounts but I'm fighting a big vending company here but funny thing is I'm slowly taking there accounts by them not servicing them good, there coming to me, I met my competitor once, we were talking then all at once in the middle of the conversation he said don't push on me, there enough for both of us lol But he send accounts to me that has 4 people lol Uh no don't think so it takes s little more than four people. I think a employee won't service or go the extra mile for someone else's company That's why I want to grow as much as I can without hiring someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 I know it all about accounts but I'm fighting a big vending company here but funny thing is I'm slowly taking there accounts by them not servicing them good, there coming to me, I met my competitor once, we were talking then all at once in the middle of the conversation he said don't push on me, there enough for both of us lol But he send accounts to me that has 4 people lol Uh no don't think so it takes s little more than four people. I think a employee won't service or go the extra mile for someone else's company That's why I want to grow as much as I can without hiring someone Just wondering why you were "talking" to your competitor? In all my years in vending I have NEVER seen a competitor do anyone any favors. They do that little trick to gain information about you. We are human and proud that we "own" our business so we brag or golpher about what the problems are in the industry. We end up talking about starting to use credit card readers, or a good product we found that has nice margins. We do this because human nature kicks in and we want to be "accepted" as one of them and portray that we know what we are doing. I am cordial to my competition but never become friends. I learned this loooong ago from my first guy I ever worked for. He used to say "I don't need anymore "friends" in vending". I never really understood what he really meant until later. Always know your competition and how they operate so you can exploit their weakness and know what their strengths are. I know my competition inside and out. What they sell, their pricing, how and what they load their machines, who they buy from, what type of equipment they use, what their service level is which can vary from route to route, etc, etc. I didn't find out all of this by chatting it up with the owners or managers. I gained that knowledge by staying in their accounts constantly and seeing what they do and how they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vendamania Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Gottcha!! Lets take your number of machine and work some numbers as an example for people to look at. Lets say 50 machines a week that average $50 gross. That's $2500 a week gross. Now lets assume COG's are half that so now down to $1250.00 net before sales taxes, any commissions, GL insurance, truck insurance, stales, fuel, CC fees, repairs, refunds, admin fees such as office supplies, websites, cell phone, equipment investment payback, etc. Let's just make it an even $1000.00 left after everything. (I think that is a little low but will go with it) .This is assuming you have no other cost like warehouse space even a storage unit, utility bill, phone, internet, renters insurance, etc. If Uncle Sam gets his portion (state and federal self employment, this can vary) but lets say 30% so that leaves us $700.00 a week or $36,400.00 in the pocket after everything. This is what I was wanting to show people to achieve $40k a year net salary and this gets close enough. I believe he is just saying he services 50 accounts a week. So that could be 75-100 machines and the average really doesn't matter though a good average preferred. He could be collecting $200 per stop so that would add up to 500k. It all comes down to collected money per service along with ROT. So the trick is how to do you that? Good accounts with multiple machines helps. Also I always try to get the largest capacity machines in locations where warranted. Then the logistics of your route and keeping it condensed which is sometimes hard. And the hardest factor is controlling all this product and the work itself. I am from the amusement side so this vending stuff is a lot of work. This is the way I have always operated amusement and bulk vending and its worked for me. Instead of having a double head machine and collecting $40 for the stop. I would put a rack,sticker,bounceball and gumball machine in there and collect $300-$500 for that stop. Always said I wouldn't pull my vehicle over for less then a couple hundred. Of course vending is different and harder to achieve that because you have to service before running out of product. Just my take on vending ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just wondering why you were "talking" to your competitor? In all my years in vending I have NEVER seen a competitor do anyone any favors. They do that little trick to gain information about you. We are human and proud that we "own" our business so we brag or golpher about what the problems are in the industry. We end up talking about starting to use credit card readers, or a good product we found that has nice margins. We do this because human nature kicks in and we want to be "accepted" as one of them and portray that we know what we are doing. I am cordial to my competition but never become friends. I learned this loooong ago from my first guy I ever worked for. He used to say "I don't need anymore "friends" in vending". I never really understood what he really meant until later. Always know your competition and how they operate so you can exploit their weakness and know what their strengths are. I know my competition inside and out. What they sell, their pricing, how and what they load their machines, who they buy from, what type of equipment they use, what their service level is which can vary from route to route, etc, etc. I didn't find out all of this by chatting it up with the owners or managers. I gained that knowledge by staying in their accounts constantly and seeing what they do and how they do it. I can't stand the majority of the vending people, the cut throat type of attitude.... I don't agree with the fact that you cant be friendly with your competitor. I bought a route from a larger vendor and he has downsized a lot in the past 3 years, I get calls or sometimes I walk into his accounts and not know it was his account till I see his machines but once I realize its his account I will not push the account any further to win them over.... every time I leave the account I give him a call tell him what is going on and sometimes I buy the account off him... I believe in Karma and by running my business this way I have gained a few business partners that are able to help in other ways, such as provide me with free accounts that are out of their area, cheap machines, help with parts, and so many other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 I can't stand the majority of the vending people, the cut throat type of attitude.... I don't agree with the fact that you cant be friendly with your competitor. I bought a route from a larger vendor and he has downsized a lot in the past 3 years, I get calls or sometimes I walk into his accounts and not know it was his account till I see his machines but once I realize its his account I will not push the account any further to win them over.... every time I leave the account I give him a call tell him what is going on and sometimes I buy the account off him... I believe in Karma and by running my business this way I have gained a few business partners that are able to help in other ways, such as provide me with free accounts that are out of their area, cheap machines, help with parts, and so many other things. Not sure what you mean by "cut throat"? I try and be fair but at the end of the day it is business. I think you can be fair but yet be "tough competition". I have similar relationships in my area with certain vendors because of the nature of what I do with consulting and also selling off accounts, etc. I also call them if I get in similar situations. However, these are smaller operators (like many on here) and not the larger operators. Have I taken accounts against the smaller operators? Yes, and will continue to do so if the opportunity is presented and it makes business sense to do so. With that said I don't "buy business" by low balling pricing putting more equipment than necessary, etc. If I think he is charging to much or not putting in the equipment they requested but think they deserve it I will do it. Most my relationships I have I try and keep them outside my general service area because it just makes better sense. However, with all the recent Canteen buy outs it usually doesn't play a part to much anymore because much of the smaller operators are gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Not sure what you mean by "cut throat"? I try and be fair but at the end of the day it is business. I think you can be fair but yet be "tough competition". I have similar relationships in my area with certain vendors because of the nature of what I do with consulting and also selling off accounts, etc. I also call them if I get in similar situations. However, these are smaller operators (like many on here) and not the larger operators. Have I taken accounts against the smaller operators? Yes, and will continue to do so if the opportunity is presented and it makes business sense to do so. With that said I don't "buy business" by low balling pricing putting more equipment than necessary, etc. If I think he is charging to much or not putting in the equipment they requested but think they deserve it I will do it. Most my relationships I have I try and keep them outside my general service area because it just makes better sense. However, with all the recent Canteen buy outs it usually doesn't play a part to much anymore because much of the smaller operators are gone. You stated "why are you talking to your competitors?" "in all my years ive never seen a competitor do any favors" "they do that trick to get information out of you" ....... I always talk to every vendor I run into just for that fact that we can both learn from each other and possibly help each other grow..... I have ran into a few competitors that do favors for me on a regular basis and if any competitors needs my help( moves, advice or anything else) I will gladly take time ...... and maybe they keep me close to "trick" me but if you are doing everything for your accounts and your accounts are happy with you most of the time the account will contact you and let you know what the competitors is offering them and give you a chance to offer the same ...... But yes I have also ran into a couple vendors that will stab you in the back with any information you give them and that is why I say the vending industry is so cut throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach33 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just wondering why you were "talking" to your competitor? In all my years in vending I have NEVER seen a competitor do anyone any favors. They do that little trick to gain information about you. We are human and proud that we "own" our business so we brag or golpher about what the problems are in the industry. We end up talking about starting to use credit card readers, or a good product we found that has nice margins. We do this because human nature kicks in and we want to be "accepted" as one of them and portray that we know what we are doing. I am cordial to my competition but never become friends. I learned this loooong ago from my first guy I ever worked for. He used to say "I don't need anymore "friends" in vending". I never really understood what he really meant until later. Always know your competition and how they operate so you can exploit their weakness and know what their strengths are. I know my competition inside and out. What they sell, their pricing, how and what they load their machines, who they buy from, what type of equipment they use, what their service level is which can vary from route to route, etc, etc. I didn't find out all of this by chatting it up with the owners or managers. I gained that knowledge by staying in their accounts constantly and seeing what they do and how they do it. What do you mean by you gained that knowledge by staying in their accounts and seeing what they do? You can't just walk into a business and find the break room on your own right? Short of following a company truck around how can you get that information from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 What do you mean by you gained that knowledge by staying in their accounts and seeing what they do? You can't just walk into a business and find the break room on your own right? Short of following a company truck around how can you get that information from them? Because I am constantly getting in their accounts by cold calling on them and getting access to the break room to see what and how they are doing things. It called getting past the gate keepers. If you are constantly cold calling you will get access to the break rooms to see what they are doing. I see around 1 to 5 a week on any given week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KychrisKy Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Right now most of my new accounts are coming in by word of mouth or I'm already in one of there other car lots already, say one guy around here owns several car lots and their wanting me to do the vending in all of them, and school system biding I'm in three diff school systems starting this new year I stir away from my competitor as much as possible, I have no signs on my truck or trailer I fly under the radar, but this month I'm taking four accounts from him because of pricing n service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 In my totally unrelated business I had, I found it best to make friends with the more reasonable competitors. It came back to help me--one major competitor went out of business in my area and started sending all his people to me, which was good. Of course it had nothing to do with vending machines. I would like to set up a good repoir with any other small vendors in my area so we can sort of look out for each other. As is pointed out, there is such a thing as a preferred territory. If your territory overlaps with others, they might have some that are too far out for them. You can also help each other out in various ways, as others have pointed out. For the cut-throat jerks, which I'm sure do exist and I will probably find, I will have to identify them and leave them alone. If I could eventually work my way up to $80-100K a year in profit, I would be a happy man, yes sir. It's far more than I make now. It's just finding a few thousand bucks to get started with that's my issue right now--I need to study on that one a bit and see where I might get it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I never found it difficult to make friends in vending. I didn't want to be good friends where weekends were spent at each other's homes but friends in the business. We never worried about "territories" as every part of town is fair game for anyone, but we didn't try to steal each other's accounts. When we stumbled on one we just passed it up and told the account why. Almost never was I in a position to do a better job than my friends did. I found that my friends were almost as good in the business as I was and we were all better than the big guys. I used the friendships to learn more about the business and to compare notes about how to do things. My favorite steals were how I laid out my first 3/4 ton van (emulating how a veteran had done his) and then how I later equipped my 14' Isuzu box trucks, being jealous of the guys with refer units and realizing that putting them on my trucks from the beginning was the smartest thing I ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Wow did you guys get off topic K here is my question I have budget to buy ten new machines. After they are all placed what kind of weekly revenue could a guy expect. I know its all about location I'm trying to put together a business plan its really tough to do if a guy doesn't know his projected sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Wow did you guys get off topic K here is my question I have budget to buy ten new machines. After they are all placed what kind of weekly revenue could a guy expect. I know its all about location I'm trying to put together a business plan its really tough to do if a guy doesn't know his projected sales I have accounts that do 1000 a week and I have accounts that do 25 a week.... You never know...that's why I love this business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 I have accounts that do 1000 a week and I have accounts that do 25 a week.... You never know...that's why I love this business The other issue people have to look at besides numbers is having the correct amount of equipment in an account. You can have to much equipment even in accounts doing good numbers.Sometimes even strong producing revenue accounts can be not structured correctly. I currently have an account that I have had for around a month (it does good revenue) and it has one to many snack machines in it. Because of this it is dragging my averages down so after a talk with the account I am pulling one of the snacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KychrisKy Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I like to average 50-60 a stop but it doesn't always work my way though lol I got some at 80.00 n some at 30.00, I wouldn't go out of my way for a 20.00 account but if it's on my way heck why not it's more than what I had lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 I like to average 50-60 a stop but it doesn't always work my way though lol I got some at 80.00 n some at 30.00, I wouldn't go out of my way for a 20.00 account but if it's on my way heck why not it's more than what I had lol Because you will end up like this guy I was dealing with today. He has been trying to sell his vending company for over 6 years and cant get a buyer even offering some owner financing. Why? Because he has 40 accounts and roughly 80 machines that are doing an average of $48.00 a week per machine. He is asking $75,0000 for the company. He has a few problems besides just his weak average per machine. He has mostly older equipment and his vend prices are not all that great. The BIG issue is his average because people don't want that much work and possible issues with that many accounts and machines to deal with. Especially with the older equipment that has not much real value to add to the business. If he had equipment all less than 5 years old then that would be a different story but he doesn't so it is hurting him with such weak average numbers. I have looked at him twice now and just cant make the numbers work. I know of a bunch of other people over a 6 year time that has figured out the same thing and not bought it. Pretty crazy to think when he is doing $15k a month in sales but at the end of the day I dont care if he is doing a million a year if he is not profitable. Yes, in the end you could be "profitable" with being $10.00 ahead at the end of the year but would you want that business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KychrisKy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Now if I get new business instead of buying new machines I'll pull one from a slow account (20.00) a week, especially if they are butts, to put it in the new account and keep my fingers crossed that it does better, If he had newer equipment he would have to ask over all more money for his business wouldnt he, He wound have a lot more invested in machines with the same cash sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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