Jimoutside Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 As I look at used drink machines, some inexpensive ones are available that claim to need to be recharged. So I was wondering several things. First, if you inspect a machine you're thinking about buying, but doesn't cool, how do you know for a fact that the only problem is a lack of refrigerant? Second, how can you tell if it will continue to leak excessively once recharged? Third, how hard and/or expensive is it to recharge systems like this? Fourth, One I'm looking at says it uses R12. Do they all use the same refrigerant, or are there different ones? Are some harder or more expensive to redo than others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Lots of variables here. If the compressor is actually running and both fans are running but the machine isn't cooling then there's a good chance the machine is low on freon. Always have them plug it in 2 hours before you see it so you'll know if it cools or not. Just because it's low on gas doesn't mean there's a meaningful leak. These units will always leak a tiny amount of gas and it tends to happen faster in an idle machine. There is also always a chance that there is another problem such as bad valves in the compressor that you can't know about until you put gauges on it and try to recharge it. The rule of thumb is that if you recharge a unit and it leaks down again in less than 6 months, you will easily find the leak. The longer a unit goes between recharges (hopefully a couple of years or more) the harder it is to find those leaks. In those cases UV dye can be added to the system to help find later leaks. To recharge one of these you really need training and most importantly, the proper equipment and tools. This isn't slapping a 12 oz can of R12 on the old Chevy. You truly have to know how to recharge these and which gases to use when so you don't botch a job up or hurt yourself. This is where vending can get expensive as you pay a pro to fix your machines. There is R12 (extinct and super expensive), R134a (common and expensive) and what I use, R401a which is far too expensive and a drop-in on top of R12 and R134a. The type of freon used in your original system at the factory will determine what compressors you can use due to the fact that there are two different oils used in the compressors depending on the gas they will be pumping. You can see how this comes down to needing to use a pro for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 As I look at used drink machines, some inexpensive ones are available that claim to need to be recharged. So I was wondering several things. First, if you inspect a machine you're thinking about buying, but doesn't cool, how do you know for a fact that the only problem is a lack of refrigerant? Second, how can you tell if it will continue to leak excessively once recharged? Third, how hard and/or expensive is it to recharge systems like this? Fourth, One I'm looking at says it uses R12. Do they all use the same refrigerant, or are there different ones? Are some harder or more expensive to redo than others? If you are thinking about buying a machine that doesn't cool down just figure in replacing the cooling unit. I have both successfully and unsuccessfully charged a unit but have always counted on replacing it. If it takes a charge and works, yay! If not, you already have a back-up plan. R12 is an older unit and is very expensive to charge. R138 is the new stuff. Think about this, where did the refrigerant go? It doesn't just evaporate. You could spend $50-$100 recharging the unit yourself and have it all slowly leak out like it did the first time or just buy a unit and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 All good advise but don't forget that a replacement cooling deck could run upwards of $600 so it may be worth it to pay a little more for one that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, good, so how much does it cost to buy the replacement unit then, typically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have found them for as little as $150 with no guarantees and called "pull-outs". Meaning they are just pulled out of a working machine. I recently bought a machine for $100 just for the cooling unit that works great. On line they can be pricey. Moondog has great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Yep, thanks, I missed Moondog's post when I replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunCandy Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I have bought them for as little as $150 to my door, used decks with a thirty day warranty. up to $300+ with a new compressor installed. So, it comes down to how much you want to spend. What ever you do, don't try to fix it yourself if you have no experience with this type of refrigeration. cajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 I do have a friend who does appliance repair and he knows how to do refrigeration. He does it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 That's kinda like having a Honda tech service a Peterbilt That's kinda like having a Honda tech service a Peterbilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Are you saying the cooling system for a vending machine is more complicated, or totally different from the cooling system on a refrigerator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 They are very similar except that the soda machine uses an air-over-condenser and some refrigerators use a passive condenser which gives higher pressure readings in the system. Someone with no experience in air-over applications might not know what pressures they should be seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Its somewhat different, while he does have a better chance than you or I do the techniques are still somewhat different, so a specialist is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorris1953 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Someone who works on refrigerators will come closer to getting it right than a Auto Mechanic or someone who works on home AC's. Both of them deal with very high suction pressures and will destroy a soda pop cooling deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I recharged several of my own. I went to Napa Auto Parts and bought the quick shot 138 and a connector. I connected the hose, turned on the unit then screwed the can on and waited for the lines to the upper thingy to get cold. When they felt pretty cold I disconnected the unit and closed the door. But before closing the door, I noticed the tag on the a/c unit said R12. So I was like, hmmm, hope that doesn't come back to haunt me. Two years later and that thing is still ice cold. I asked an a/c tech about it and he said that the oil is not compatible and to never mix freon types. If it says R12, R12 must be used. I am not in no way recommending anyone do this, I'm just telling you what I did. I highly recommend that you hire a professional to do your a/c work. Also, I took a cooling deck to an a/c shop and they had it for 3 months (the R12 type). When I got it back, I installed it and 2 days later it was warm again. Instead of taking it back I found one for $175 at a place that refurbishes vending machines, bought it and installed it and has been cooling great for 3 weeks now. Not all units have the connector to hook up the hoses. In fact, most of them don't. One unit I had a shop soldier on the connector and another unit the repair guy used a "tap" that clamped on to the low pressure side and created an orifice to connect the freon fill hose to. He said the "tap" is quick and easy but usually ends up leaking in a couple years. Something about the "O" ring being the weak link. And while he's telling me this I'm thinking, "Then why in the hell are you using it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 If you screw up the compressor could develop a hole in the side that shoots out fire...just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 You guys pretty much convinced me--I'm not getting anything that already needs work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 If you get a unit that heeds work- if you are reasonably handy and can follow instructions then you can fix simple stuff like motors and replace mechs and vals and pull the refrigeration out for someone else to service. These have to be done anyway in the future as they wear out. BTW, post the Craigslist adds here so we can evaluate the deals for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 If you screw up the compressor could develop a hole in the side that shoots out fire...just sayin. Have you actually seen that happen? Overcharging can cause the freon to move into the compression chamber in a liquid state and cause permanent and instant damage to the compressor also know as hydro-lock. It's ugly. Never seen fire shoot out the side of one but that doesn't mean it can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allen watson Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I have 4 units that are sitting on the bench waiting to be "recharged". I used to take them to the scrap yard and not even think about it but it seems that they are getting harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Its only hear say but from some of the techs on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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