RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I would highly recommended NOT buying new equipment. I have been doing vending for a pretty good amount of time now and still have yet to buy a new piece of equipment. I would recommend going out and buying a good refurbished unit. You can pick up a good used machine for 1/4 the cost of a new machine. The companies that are buying new machines are putting them in universities or air ports, and they are using the fact that the machines are new to help in the bidding process. For most accounts a used machine that is properly set up will do perfectly fine. If the first machine I bought would have been a new one I would have lost money because when I first started doing vending I had practically no clew what I was doing. Now a days I would be more willing to buy some new equipment for larger accounts with a contract, however most of these accounts are locked up with the big guys. You can get as much consulting as you need on this blog imo Dont take this the wrong way because I think this forum is great and very helpful. Did you use this forum when you started? If not how soon did you start using the forum once you where in business? You said it yourself you didn't have a clue when you got started. Maybe if you had found someone with a "clue" you would have much faster success and less mistakes. So you mean to tell me that knowing what you know now being in the business for awhile you don't think it would have been worth $750 to have someone to guide and coach you from the start? You didn't spend more or loose more than $750 on mistakes? The idea that the "big boys" have the large accounts "locked up" is crazy talk. These accounts are lost all the time if operators know how to get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHX1 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So lets take this one point. Lets say he has $1k to spend and that's it. You think that money would be better spent on buying a used machine and going it alone than taking that same $1k and hiring a consultant (me or anyone that is reputable) and learning how to do vending correctly and using the new/used with financing option. You think it would make better sense for him to spend that $1k on a machine and place it in an account doing $50 a week? You think that better than paying $1k for consulting and learning and getting an account that does $500 a week (with financed equipment)? How would a new guy (no offense) go out there and an account that does 500 a week? The chances of that are very very very very slim imo. If he were to get his feet wet like many others recommend he will do much better because he will be actually learning the business along the way and not just being told what to do. Its like fixing your car, anyone can on youtube and watch a video on how to do it, but the guy that actually goes out to his garage and works on it and learns it will have a much better chance of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 We do consulting here for free......so yes I say buy a used machine for 900 stock the machine with the other 100 ....there is no experience or training like on the job real life training ...I've always said I would hire someone with 2 years experience working on the job then someone that read a book Just fyi, I do consulting here for "free" also. I give PLENTY of free advice and spend a lot of time doing it. If I get a consulting client out of it because of my participation then great if not I still like participating and giving advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHX1 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Dont take this the wrong way because I think this forum is great and very helpful. Did you use this forum when you started? If not how soon did you start using the forum once you where in business? You said it yourself you didn't have a clue when you got started. Maybe if you had found someone with a "clue" you would have much faster success and less mistakes. So you mean to tell me that knowing what you know now being in the business for awhile you don't think it would have been worth $750 to have someone to guide and coach you from the start? You didn't spend more or loose more than $750 on mistakes? The idea that the "big boys" have the large accounts "locked up" is crazy talk. These accounts are lost all the time if operators know how to get them. Ok, if this is the case, could you explain for the forum how an average operation would go out to an account (lets say Boeing because they have many factories here in AZ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So lets take this one point. Lets say he has $1k to spend and that's it. You think that money would be better spent on buying a used machine and going it alone than taking that same $1k and hiring a consultant (me or anyone that is reputable) and learning how to do vending correctly and using the new/used with financing option. You think it would make better sense for him to spend that $1k on a machine and place it in an account doing $50 a week? You think that better than paying $1k for consulting and learning and getting an account that does $500 a week (with financed equipment)? In example one he would be spending 1000+ cost of machine. For those 50/week accounts I would recommend a 300 dollar Craigslist special single price Dixie Narco. In addition those 500/wk locations are rare, and some will require even more equipment like cold food and coffee that will F*ck over a newbie pretty quick. I don't know about you but I would not want to dive in to the deep end with no swimming experience even though I have a coach next to me. I would much rather go to the 3 ft end and learn to swim properly then expand my technique to get those monster accounts (deep end). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 How would a new guy (no offense) go out there and an account that does 500 a week? The chances of that are very very very very slim imo. If he were to get his feet wet like many others recommend he will do much better because he will be actually learning the business along the way and not just being told what to do. Its like fixing your car, anyone can on youtube and watch a video on how to do it, but the guy that actually goes out to his garage and works on it and learns it will have a much better chance of success. You guys act like these accounts are unicorns. If you have the knowledge and ability you can get them. That is the whole reason hiring a consultant is an OPTION and some perfer to use that option to learn from the start what and how to get these type of accounts. I wouldnt even think about going out to my garage and start turning wrenches on my car to change a timing belt. However I would if I had a how to video or a neighbor who was a mechanic willing to help show me if I got in a pinch. In other words someone that knew what he was doing showing me. That's like saying "son no need going to school you can learn everything by doing it yourself". Guys people hire or pay for knowledge from all different places, that could be a school, consultant, tutor, etc. Not sure why it seems crazy to do so in the vending industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHX1 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You guys act like these accounts are unicorns. If you have the knowledge and ability you can get them. That is the whole reason hiring a consultant is an OPTION and some perfer to use that option to learn from the start what and how to get these type of accounts. I wouldnt even think about going out to my garage and start turning wrenches on my car to change a timing belt. However I would if I had a how to video or a neighbor who was a mechanic willing to help show me if I got in a pinch. In other words someone that knew what he was doing showing me. That's like saying "son no need going to school you can learn everything by doing it yourself". Guys people hire or pay for knowledge from all different places, that could be a school, consultant, tutor, etc. Not sure why it seems crazy to do so in the vending industry. No need to hire, Vendiscuss is free for the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ok, if this is the case, could you explain for the forum how an average operation would go out to an account (lets say Boeing because they have many factories here in AZ). I have a better idea why don't you call some of my references and see if they where showed how to get these type accounts. It is not rocket science but it does take some experience and knowledge from doing them. The last job I had working for an operator before starting my own company I got him 56 accounts in 21 months. Many of these where large accounts including many large manufacturing operations that are traded on wall street. If I could show you how to get accounts like that it wouldn't be worth $750? No need to hire, Vendiscuss is free for the public. Sure is and it is a great tool. Show me that thread where it shows someone how to land an account that does 5k plus a week in revenue? It is just one tool in the tool box but why only use the screwdriver when you could use the hammer, drill, saw, etc. Some prefer to use just the screwdriver and nothing wrong with that but others prefer to buy more and different tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 You guys act like these accounts are unicorns. If you have the knowledge and ability you can get them. That is the whole reason hiring a consultant is an OPTION and some perfer to use that option to learn from the start what and how to get these type of accounts. I wouldnt even think about going out to my garage and start turning wrenches on my car to change a timing belt. However I would if I had a how to video or a neighbor who was a mechanic willing to help show me if I got in a pinch. In other words someone that knew what he was doing showing me. That's like saying "son no need going to school you can learn everything by doing it yourself". Guys people hire or pay for knowledge from all different places, that could be a school, consultant, tutor, etc. Not sure why it seems crazy to do so in the vending industry. 1 For a new guy they might as well be. 2 Vendiscuss is like the how to video, the neighbor is like you. You get what you pay for, but a guy with little money is better served taking the time to learn by reading the forum. And I don't know why you act like a new guy should just jump right in and get large accounts. They are very hard to keep and get without experience and capital. While you provide theoretical knowledge it can't beat practical knowledge. And even if you can get it very close there is more than one way to skin a cat and what works for you might not work for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 1 For a new guy they might as well be. 2 Vendiscuss is like the how to video, the neighbor is like you. You get what you pay for, but a guy with little money is better served taking the time to learn by reading the forum. And I don't know why you act like a new guy should just jump right in and get large accounts. They are very hard to keep and get without experience and capital. While you provide theoretical knowledge it can't beat practical knowledge. And even if you can get it very close there is more than one way to skin a cat and what works for you might not work for them. Actually I am not the neighbor I am a vending consultant that is paid to give advice and coaching. A neighbor is their to give you a hand for free (maybe a few beers) if you get in a jam working on your car. I have NEVER said consulting is the only way to go and many choose not to use them in many businesses. You and others have said new guys (as well as experienced people) can not get and keep these larger accounts and that is just wrong. If they have the correct guidance it is possible and they can be successful at it. Lets say a guy says he has 100k to spend and I want to start a vending company. Would it be crazy for him to hire an experienced manager to help him build that business? Or should he just got it alone? No one here has answered my question yet. Did you make more than a $750 mistake since you got started in vending? If you could have saved more than $750 in savings or mistakes would you have done it? I am just saying consulting is not for everyone for what ever reason but it has a great value to many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Actually I am not the neighbor I am a vending consultant that is paid to give advice and coaching. A neighbor is their to give you a hand for free (maybe a few beers) if you get in a jam working on your car. I have NEVER said consulting is the only way to go and many choose not to use them in many businesses. You and others have said new guys (as well as experienced people) can not get and keep these larger accounts and that is just wrong. If they have the correct guidance it is possible and they can be successful at it. Lets say a guy says he has 100k to spend and I want to start a vending company. Would it be crazy for him to hire an experienced manager to help him build that business? Or should he just got it alone? No one here has answered my question yet. Did you make more than a $750 mistake since you got started in vending? If you could have saved more than $750 in savings or mistakes would you have done it? I am just saying consulting is not for everyone for what ever reason but it has a great value to many. That question is ridiculous ...so if I hired you you're telling us that you guarantee we won't make any mistakes ? Because you must know all right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Back to the original question- if Op takes you advice and gets a loan or new machine and your consulting but wants out for what ever reason that is hundreds wasted right there. In addition it is less stressful to have 500 dollar machines making 200 a month and be paid off in 5 moths that to have to worry about making payments for a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 That question is ridiculous ...so if I hired you you're telling us that you guarantee we won't make any mistakes ? Because you must know all right? No I learn something new all the time. Just like any good teacher they are also good students and always trying to learn more to help better themselves as a teacher. What I do know is that I have been in the industry for over 15 years worked for two larger operators as a manager and been running my own vending and consulting operation for around 5 years now and written a book about vending that many on here recommend to others. I also have helped many people start and grow their business way beyond their expectations and way more than they ever spent on my consulting fees. Will I keep you from making all mistakes? No and no one can but I promise you I will save you more than the $750 you spent on the consulting. Back to the original question- if Op takes you advice and gets a loan or new machine and your consulting but wants out for what ever reason that is hundreds wasted right there. In addition it is less stressful to have 500 dollar machines making 200 a month and be paid off in 5 moths that to have to worry about making payments for a couple years. I said back many post ago if he wants out or fails both have different consequences but both are a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I feel like you're trying to sell me a timeshare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I feel like you're trying to sell me a timeshare Really how so? So you see no value in hiring a consultant that could save you money and mistakes? Tell you what I will give you the $750 consulting package for free. If I save you or make you more than the $750 then you pay for the service. If I don't save you or make you more than the $750 then you owe nothing at all. Sound fair? So you get to try it for free and see if it is worth the $750 before you even pay for it. Just FYI, plan on paying the $750 (cause I know I will save you that and more) but you still get the 1 year either way. Matter of fact I will make that offer to ORD and PHX1 also. What have you got to loose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 We do consulting here for free......so yes I say buy a used machine for 900 stock the machine with the other 100 ....there is no experience or training like on the job real life training ...I've always said I would hire someone with 2 years experience working on the job then someone that read a book So using your own example you think reading a forum is better than hiring someone with 15 years in vending? I am a little confused. No different other than a forum is "live" and written as you go a book is written and complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think he means hiring a route driver. Getting a consultant is like getting a talking book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think he means hiring a route driver. Getting a consultant is like getting a talking book. Not hardly a book is one dimensional that you have to comprehend. A consultant (if they age a good one) is a coach, teacher, mentor that you can ask the questions and explain things that you may not understand exactly. Why do you think a school has books and teachers? The teachers are their to explain and be hands on helping the students understand the books. A teacher also helps guide that student in their decision making. A consultant is in the trenches with you to help guide you and help you problem solve. Nothing wrong with books (I wrote one) but it does not compare to having a teacher to help you understand the entire subject matter. You want to take me up on my offer? I don't care who gets in on it first but someone that is willing to take up the challenge gets to try the consulting for free and only pay if and when I save or make you over the $750. What have you got to loose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 How do you run your consultations? all over the phone, phone and email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 How do you run your consultations? all over the phone, phone and email? Phone, email, text, and in person (if the person is willing to pay for that) Mostly by phone because emails and such (like anything being read) can be easier to explain in person (phone) than trying to send a bunch of emails back and fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKK Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 No loans! Start off small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHX1 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I guess after all this, my question for you RJT would be why dont you have a national vending company that rivals canteen or aramark? It seems as if you have the secret sauce that the rest of us dont have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I guess after all this, my question for you RJT would be why dont you have a national vending company that rivals canteen or aramark? It seems as if you have the secret sauce that the rest of us dont have. That's like asking the CEO of Bank of America why he doesn't start his own bank and "rival" BOA. You do realize the capital it would require to "rival" canteen or aramark? You do realize that canteen and aramark have "revenue" from much more than vending, right? Can I compete and teach people to compete against canteen and aramark? absolutely I can, but "rival" is a bit of a different challenge and a different ballgame all together. BTW, I never have said anyone here doesn't have the "secret sauce" or talked down to anyone here. I am just saying that the idea that large accounts cant be gotten because they are "locked up" by the big guys, or newer people in vending cant get these accounts is just wrong. I know they can and I have shown them. Call that secret sauce or what have you but in the end someone is always going to know more than you. Like I said I learn something all the time from people in the industry. Why? because I don't know it all and someone else had the "secret sauce" I wanted to learn about. Sometimes that "secret sauce" was free and sometimes it cost me. Sometimes it cost me a lot because it was a lesson I learned on my own that cost me plenty. That just comes with the years in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimoutside Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Really how so? So you see no value in hiring a consultant that could save you money and mistakes? Tell you what I will give you the $750 consulting package for free. If I save you or make you more than the $750 then you pay for the service. If I don't save you or make you more than the $750 then you owe nothing at all. Sound fair? So you get to try it for free and see if it is worth the $750 before you even pay for it. Just FYI, plan on paying the $750 (cause I know I will save you that and more) but you still get the 1 year either way. Matter of fact I will make that offer to ORD and PHX1 also. What have you got to loose? RJT, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that even though you have offered them this generous resource, you have left them with the ability to determine whether or not your service was worth the $750. Since they are determined from the get-go, that your service is not worth it, there is the danger that they would (intentionally or unintentionally) cause it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy if they took you up on the offer, not believing that it would work. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 RJT, I appreciate what you're trying to do here, but the problem is that even though you have offered them this generous resource, you have left them with the ability to determine whether or not your service was worth the $750. Since they are determined from the get-go, that your service is not worth it, there is the danger that they would (intentionally or unintentionally) cause it to be a self-fulfilling prophecy if they took you up on the offer, not believing that it would work. :/ I understand but I am confident that I can save them or make them well above the $750 to the point they cant deny the fact. No matter what they have to keep an open mind and be willing to listen. Don't worry I have been down this road before (on here) I have been here since 2010 and it happens from time to time. The fact is the proof is in the pudding as they say. I have the proof (by satisfied customers) and that is what matters. Vending is a small world and because of the internet people that feel they have been shorted will complain in a second. Bad word travels like wildfire but good news travels slow. You can find complaints about many vending type businesses (locators, machine companies, suppliers, etc) but so far I dont have that and been around a long time under the same name and participating on the same forums for years. Oh sure some may think I am a pompous golpher at times but that is not my intent and another reason I don't like the written word at times. It has to much room to be interpreted the wrong way. The fact is I give people a good value and have results. Also I am a man of my word and can only expect anyone that took up this offer to do so in good faith and expect the same out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.