Do not buy vending machines until you read this

[RJT]

I see on here many times where either new people have bought machines first then found this forum to try and figure things out. I also see where people in the business buy machines and then try and figure things out. Probably happens a few times a month on here where people spent money of equipment (combo machines, old equipment, etc) then come here asking the questions. 

 

I hear all the time “what machines should I buy?” Nothing wrong with that question but the BIGGER question is what kind of accounts do I need and how do I get them.

 

90% of the times you need to get the account first then buy the equipment. Unless you are getting a good deal on some machines there is no need to tie up your money on equipment that is sitting around. Even with that comes some risk. What happens if you have tied up most of your money on the “good deal” equipment and the next account you get that equipment may not work.

 

You have to figure out each account and what they need and are asking for (that makes sense) in order to gain their business. Do they need 4 wide, 5 wide, bottle machines, can machines, cold food, coffee, frozen? Do they need/require new or used equipment? What do they need? That is what you need to figure out so you can get the correct equipment.

 

Each account can be different in subtle ways. They may need a 5 wide snack in one area and a 4 wide somewhere else on location. They may need both a can and a bottle machine. etc, etc.

 

Some will say “what about if I need to get into an account fast?” That can happen but in my 14 plus years in vending that rarely happens. Courtesy in the industry is giving the current vendor 30 days notice for a switch out. So you will have time to find the right equipment for the account. What happens if all you capital is tied up on equipment that will not work for the new account you just acquired? Now what? 

 

There is nothing wrong with having a couple pieces of equipment on standby if you have the extra capital. I would tie up a whole lot of your capital doing this.

 

Go find the accounts, figure out what pieces of equipment you need for it and then put the package together. The larger you get the more equipment you will have sitting (more so than you would like)  but in the beginning you need to concentrate solely on accounts more so than equipment. Equipment is much easier to acquire than accounts.  

[Feral Vending Mechanic]

When you're determining what equipment to place at the account, there are some things that you need to know. ( These are mostly related to the actual installation of the equipment. )

 

1 ) If you are replacing someone else's equipment, find out what the make and model of those machines is. Take pictures. Measure their width. Measure their depth.

2 ) MEASURE EVERYTHING. Measure the door width of the building's door into the breakroom. Walk the route you'll be bringing the machines in. Do they have a loading dock? Pay attention to all of the doors in the building. Pay special attention to any doors with electronic badging. Are you going to have to remove any building doors to get your equipment in? Look at everything. Take pictures if they allow you to. Look at curbs. Look at handicap access ramps.  

3 ) Have a plan for what to do if the other vendor doesn't show up in a timely fashion to pick up their equipment. Is there room in the breakroom for you to just unplug their machines and move them out of the way, or will you have no choice but to return later?

[RJT]

When you're determining what equipment to place at the account, there are some things that you need to know. ( These are mostly related to the actual installation of the equipment. )

 

1 ) If you are replacing someone else's equipment, find out what the make and model of those machines is. Take pictures. Measure their width. Measure their depth.

2 ) MEASURE EVERYTHING. Measure the door width of the building's door into the breakroom. Walk the route you'll be bringing the machines in. Do they have a loading dock? Pay attention to all of the doors in the building. Pay special attention to any doors with electronic badging. Are you going to have to remove any building doors to get your equipment in? Look at everything. Take pictures if they allow you to. Look at curbs. Look at handicap access ramps.  

3 ) Have a plan for what to do if the other vendor doesn't show up in a timely fashion to pick up their equipment. Is there room in the breakroom for you to just unplug their machines and move them out of the way, or will you have no choice but to return later?

 

While an valid and EXCELLENT point it is a little off topic.  

[lacanteen]

Your comment that people seem to purchase equipment then come here for help rings true. However, the elephant in the room (or forum so to speak) is that a lot of this equipment is machines that main stream operators will not use. I'll name makes and models if you want me to, but it seems that the unsuspecting "newbie" ends up with the stuff no one else wants, usually for a good reason. I feel bad that they spent good money on something that will either never quite work right or if the electronics fail they are screwed.

 

That said, all operators started somewhere. It's a learning process that some get and others don't. Thanks for listening to my rant. I try to help where I can.

[RJT]

Your comment that people seem to purchase equipment then come here for help rings true. However, the elephant in the room (or forum so to speak) is that a lot of this equipment is machines that main stream operators will not use. I'll name makes and models if you want me to, but it seems that the unsuspecting "newbie" ends up with the stuff no one else wants, usually for a good reason. I feel bad that they spent good money on something that will either never quite work right or if the electronics fail they are screwed.

 

That said, all operators started somewhere. It's a learning process that some get and others don't. Thanks for listening to my rant. I try to help where I can.

 

Oh I agree 100% I see it on here and field the phone calls with my consulting from people that have bought some real bad equipment and now trying to figure out exactly what they have and how to get it placed. Then when I am truthful with them about what they have bought and their situation they seem to understand or believe me. I have said before on here it is easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.  Thats why I even start threads like this so people can avoid some of those pitfalls. 

 

Got a call just the other week from a lady that bought 3 combo machines at a stupid price then called me about doing all "healthy" vending with them. After a long discussion with here she still didn't "get it" and I had that strange feeling she thought I was wrong in what I was telling her. I never heard back from her and I am willing to bet she does not stay in vending very long. 

 

Like you say all operators have to start somewhere which is one of the reasons I started my consulting company to help folks get off on the right foot or help straighten out what they have gotten themselves into. Like you I saw so many get off in the wrong direction. Most don't have the determination, funding, time, etc to get past the "learning process" you speak of. Their stuff end up back on CL and they are out of the vending industry. 

[RJT]

What is even funnier is the ones that try and convince themselves they are going to try and reach some untapped "niche" market in vending. They think they are going to take something like a combo machine and do the accounts no one else is doing and make a living at it. I tell them if they want to deal in low volume accounts that main stream operators don't want get into the honor snack and drink business. It is much cheaper to get into with a lot less risk. 

 

A local company in my area did a pretty good living out of the honor box snack business. They probably had a few thousand accounts spread out over 5 to 6 counties. In the end Canteen bought them out a few years ago. 

[lacanteen]

I worked in equipment distribution representing most of the big names for over 20 years. On many brands I am factory trained. I am now part of a large main line vending operation responsible for technology upgrades: DEX, Cards, Telemetry, Etc.. My roots go back to Ohio in the mid 80's. That's Coffee Mat country for any old timers.

[Poplady1]

This forum is here to help new vendors find the best possible way to go based on their ability to purchase machines.  Not everyone has the power to buy big and place big.  There is a place for combo's and they are great training wheels for a new vendor and some people almost give them away.

 

We work with a couple of the largest companies in SCAL and they still have some combo's available when needed.

 

If a new vendor keeps the route small and close by they can learn the ropes and make come money.  It is sad when they go the 1-800 route but once it is done, it is done.  Help them dig their way out.  If they find this forum before buying equipment then we can help them avoid traps.  

 

Happy vending everyone.

[RJT]

This forum is here to help new vendors find the best possible way to go based on their ability to purchase machines.  Not everyone has the power to buy big and place big.  There is a place for combo's and they are great training wheels for a new vendor and some people almost give them away.

 

We work with a couple of the largest companies in SCAL and they still have some combo's available when needed.

 

If a new vendor keeps the route small and close by they can learn the ropes and make come money.  It is sad when they go the 1-800 route but once it is done, it is done.  Help them dig their way out.  If they find this forum before buying equipment then we can help them avoid traps.  

 

Happy vending everyone.

 

That's why I suggested honor box snacks and drinks if your budget is that limited. Give me 20 honor box snack accounts over 1 combo planet Antares combo account. The guy in this thread said he paid a little less than $3k for these three machines. He could had a decent full size drink and snack for that kind of money. Also he said he bought them because one included a location. Typical buying someones failure. The seller saw no future in the combo vending business and unloaded them off to someone else to deal with. 

 

Their is NO PLACE for a vending operator doing combo machines other than a satellite location tied to a large account. The facts are based on mathematics when it comes to combo machines. Either they are good accounts that you struggle to keep full and you will get taken from you or they do not make enough revenue.  If it is that great of an account an operator with full size machines will take it from you by offering better machines with a much greater variety. I know this because I have done it to people trying this. A lady was a member of a YMCA and talked the administrator into letting her do the vending. It is a great account but she could never keep the machines full, they kept breaking down, and they wanted a better selection of items. I went in offered them two 5 wide where she had 4 combo machines and got the account from her. She paid crazy money for these 4 combo machines only to loose the account less than a year later. 

 

The other situation is you have a crappy account no one wants to begin with and you pull out $30 a week out of it. Either situation is not a good way to learn the vending business because it is not realistic as to what the business is supposed to be like.

 

I just don't think it is fruitful or constructive for us to encourage folks to try the vending business this way. Or somehow it is a way to "get the feet wet".  The reason large operators do not use them because they simply do not work. We need to encourage folks to think and act like large operators and do vending correctly from the start.   

[Jax1]

Hi:

 

I am a newbie and looking to start a small vending business.  Any advice on the first steps to getting started would be greatly appreciated. Especially, on acquiring a profitable location.

 

It is my intention to purchase the machines after acquiring the location first.  I am looking to start small with one snack and one beverage machine to hopefully place at one site.  After determining its profitability, I would then look to expand.  Is this a good starting point?

 

Thanks.

[AZVendor]

You're best starting point, as has been advised over and over here, is to start with single price can machines that are easy to place and easy to maintain product in. This allows you to get your feet wet and work the business to see if it's really for you. Later on, after getting a few machines out, you can begin to move into snack machines. Just realize that until you get a few snacks out in good locations you will lose a lot of money in stales due to the package counts you'll have to buy for many of your inventory items - all of which expire.

[RJT]

You're best starting point, as has been advised over and over here, is to start with single price can machines that are easy to place and easy to maintain product in. This allows you to get your feet wet and work the business to see if it's really for you. Later on, after getting a few machines out, you can begin to move into snack machines. Just realize that until you get a few snacks out in good locations you will lose a lot of money in stales due to the package counts you'll have to buy for many of your inventory items - all of which expire.

 

While not a bad option and I agree with you I see nothing wrong with him (or anyone) trying to find drink/snack accounts right from the start. The key is making sure they are solid accounts and even with that like you said expect some stales until they get around 3 to 5 good snack accounts. The key is getting good accounts that do around the $100 per machine per week average.  

[AngryChris]

I'm all for starting with single price. The investment is cheap. It's quick to stock, easy to work on. If you find out you don't want to do vending, you aren't out much money. Oh, and you can easily get canned soda from anywhere. Not the case with snacks.

[RJT]

I'm all for starting with single price. The investment is cheap. It's quick to stock, easy to work on. If you find out you don't want to do vending, you aren't out much money. Oh, and you can easily get canned soda from anywhere. Not the case with snacks.

 

Biggest issue with starting single price can is you limit the accounts you can get right from the start. It is limited as to what type accounts you can place a single price can machine. It takes just as much effort to place a single can machine as it does a drink snack account that could do twice the money. If you happen to find an account that works for single price can then great but don't limit yourself to that only. 

 

Also I have always said if you hamstring yourself to this type of equipment in a good account the competition can take it away from you by offering a more versatile piece of equipment with more selections and options like multi price to include a mix of bottles,juices, Gatorade, etc.  If I find a nice account with a single price can machine in it I am going to offer them something better to get the account. 

 

Like I said not a terrible option but people need to understand both side of utilizing single price can machines. 

[AngryChris]

A bottle machine is ideal as it is more versatile but it will cost more and getting 20 oz bottles is a waste with one machine. If you work full-time, providing proper service to a good account can be difficult. I would advise someone to start with a 501E but I'd also advise them to start with cans. A lot of people are pushing cans over bottles when they can due to the cost of bottles

[RJT]

A bottle machine is ideal as it is more versatile but it will cost more and getting 20 oz bottles is a waste with one machine. If you work full-time, providing proper service to a good account can be difficult. I would advise someone to start with a 501E but I'd also advise them to start with cans. A lot of people are pushing cans over bottles when they can due to the cost of bottles

 

If someone is working a full time job and trying to do vending they will have to select accounts that make servicing the account correctly possible. Work an 8-5 M-F job, find good accounts that would allow service after 5 PM and on weekends. That is the nature of starting any business while working a full time job. Give me one good account like this than a couple weak locations that you cant provide "proper service to and hope for the best. 

 

Like I said your equipment selection can be crucial in keeping a good account (along with service) because any good operator is going to see the weakness or holes and offer them a better machine with better features and selections. Not always the case but can happen under certain conditions causing you to loose a good account.  

[Poplady1]

Again if the damage has been done, the new vendor has already purchased the machines help them dig out of the hole. We all get it that combo's are not the way to go but the office deli purchased by this young vendor does work in many office accounts and certainly does more then $30 a week.  I also understand the first account landed by this new vendor was a nice nursing home.  Should do as good as it gets for that size machine and if need be another one of those deli units can be placed right next to the existing one.  

 

So many vendors are messaging me on this and other subjects.  They should feel free to post their questions so they can learn.  No preaching.  Just some good advice.  Not just here but all of the experienced vendors, remember this is a learning forum for beginners too and technical for more experienced.  Everyone wants those big accounts and one day with the proper knowledge lots of new vendiscuss vendors can step right in there.

 

And we all get it.  Many many of you do not like combo's.  Be sure you mention that to Crane, National and other major companies that produce solid units.  We know that Gaines and Antares are made for smaller size accounts.  I currently have one of those pieces in my garage and guess what, a nonprofit downtown is very excited to get it.

 

Happy Vending

[RJT]

Again if the damage has been done, the new vendor has already purchased the machines help them dig out of the hole. We all get it that combo's are not the way to go but the office deli purchased by this young vendor does work in many office accounts and certainly does more then $30 a week.  I also understand the first account landed by this new vendor was a nice nursing home.  Should do as good as it gets for that size machine and if need be another one of those deli units can be placed right next to the existing one.  

 

So many vendors are messaging me on this and other subjects.  They should feel free to post their questions so they can learn.  No preaching.  Just some good advice.  Not just here but all of the experienced vendors, remember this is a learning forum for beginners too and technical for more experienced.  Everyone wants those big accounts and one day with the proper knowledge lots of new vendiscuss vendors can step right in there.

 

And we all get it.  Many many of you do not like combo's.  Be sure you mention that to Crane, National and other major companies that produce solid units.  We know that Gaines and Antares are made for smaller size accounts.  I currently have one of those pieces in my garage and guess what, a nonprofit downtown is very excited to get it.

 

Happy Vending

 

Yes the damage is done and I am helping him by telling him to sell them for what he can and move on and start over the correct way.  I never heard anything about a "nice nursing home". Even if that is the case if I walked in as a competitor and saw that I would take that account from him like I have done before with these good accounts with combo machines. 

 

They can "feel free" to post any question they choose that is what the forum is for. This is not "preaching" it is a dose of cold hard truth.

 

So what would you suggest him do with these combo machines?  If he places them in a decent account he works himself trying to keep them full and runs the risk of getting the account taken by the competition that offers them a bigger machine with better selections? If he places them in some slow account then he has that a slow account not making much revenue. 

 

I am not sure what would be the best "fix" other than sell them and start over. 

[Stengel]

Can the veterans answer one question for me? If you were given 5 working combo machines for free, what would be your next move? Place, sell, or something else?

[RJT]

Can the veterans answer one question for me? If you were given 5 working combo machines for free, what would be your next move? Place, sell, or something else?

 

I think my answer is going to be obvious but it would be to sell them and take that money and invest in some decent full size vending machines AFTER you found accounts to put them in. If they where decent machines like an USI, Crane, etc I might keep one have available in case I need one for a satellite location of a large account I may get. 

[Feral Vending Mechanic]

 In the end Canteen bought them out a few years ago. 

 

And immediately ditched the honor boxes. Canteen is after the good accounts, not the honor box accounts. 

[RJT]

And immediately ditched the honor boxes. Canteen is after the good accounts, not the honor box accounts. 

 

Actually I think they are still doing the honor boxes on some level but not certain about that. 

[PHX1]

Yes the damage is done and I am helping him by telling him to sell them for what he can and move on and start over the correct way.  I never heard anything about a "nice nursing home". Even if that is the case if I walked in as a competitor and saw that I would take that account from him like I have done before with these good accounts with combo machines. 

 

They can "feel free" to post any question they choose that is what the forum is for. This is not "preaching" it is a dose of cold hard truth.

 

So what would you suggest him do with these combo machines?  If he places them in a decent account he works himself trying to keep them full and runs the risk of getting the account taken by the competition that offers them a bigger machine with better selections? If he places them in some slow account then he has that a slow account not making much revenue. 

 

I am not sure what would be the best "fix" other than sell them and start over. 

I love coming across account with combos, piece of cake to take it

[RJT]

I love coming across account with combos, piece of cake to take it

 

I do to if they are good accounts. I have taken many over the years that where good accounts that had combo machines. 

[Refreshments Made Easy]

Hello all,

I read this whole thread and it was an interesting read. I've just started vending this year 2015.

My first account was a single price at a storage unit and then purchased another location with a snack and a 5591.

Then I bought some COMBOS and put them each in a location. Until this thread [or this forum], I never knew combos were a bad idea because of the plan I sought after.

I am very comfortable in soliciting businesses with 50 and under employees due to me speaking with the decision maker instantly to place the machine there swiftly.

I always ask the question to new vendors I come in contact with: Do you buy machines or get the location first? I get different answers every time. It seems like it's a Catch 22 for me.

The hardest part I've come across is the accounting part....but I am starting to get a hang of it. And most that I have come across say they don't track their monies or product at all, they just collect and restock.

Luckily and good guy that owns 21st Century Vending helped me out in that area by having the machines do all the work for me.

 

I'm still learning and buying GOOD BUYS [b4 the locations] and FINDING LOCATIONS.

Forum:  I would like to share this because I am proud of myself. I landed an 11 machine account all by myself and then having to refill them every 3 days! I'm so ecstatic!

 

My goal was to get accounts that make $100 - $200/wk but someone just told me you can get accounts that product $1,500/wk

Fellow vendors I'm off to find such location. Wish me luck.

 

I welcome all suggestions, advice and constructive criticisms. I am here to learn, learn, learn, and give advice if I can.

NOOBS [newbies] like me.... DONT BE AFRAID TO ASK THE VETERANS QUESTIONS! I've found out they are willing to help and welcome us into the business!

 

Thank you guys.