matthew0582 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 About 40 machines owned mixed with snack and drinks. Around 50 loaned machines from pepsi and coke includes a 97 isuzu box truck. Grossed 79k last year. Asking 60k. What are your thoughts? i would say the 40 owned machines have a value of $700 and the box truck value of $5000. So $33k is liquid assets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchligVend Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Make sure coke and Pepsi will work with you if you buy these...if not you will need to buy new machines for all of those accounts Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Even if you can catch on with Coke and Pepsi you do not want to give any value to those assets as you don't own them and at any time you might need to replace them with purchased machines should there be a problem with the bottlers. You should only apply value to the owned assets and only at used prices. Do some math and find out what the average sales are per location and per machine. Those numbers are very important as are the vend prices, commissions, and all fixed and variable costs so you can see if this is even profitable right now. If the prices are below market then you can increase the net with higher prices. If you can get a list of models of machines then you can put a value on the assets. Some hybrid valuation of asset values and gross sales wi give you an idea of what to offer. If the asset value doesn't meet the asking price then the gross sales are going to have a pretty low average per machine even when you include the total of all machines owned and leased. With the number of leased machines exceeding the number of owned machines this is real heavy in soda and light in snacks, which could help with profits but hurt the average asset value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 yes i valued the liquid assets at 33k and gave no value to the leased machines. His prices on items in the machines now are the going rates. My guess is will coke and pepsi have a problem transferring these over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 With 50 leased machines it's likely they will especially if you have around 25 with each and he has already been buying the required allotment of soda to qualify for the machines. If he's not been doing that and there aren't any owned soda machines to help offset those requirements then it could be a hard sell to the bottlers. The numbers of machines makes it sound like the 40 owned machines are not soda but are all or mostly snacks etc. That's a pretty typical mix of machines especially if he's got both Coke and Pepsi in some of the locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 he said he has had them leased for around 8 years now. He only buys 20oz bottles from each. I think ill offer him 45k since he was saying 60k or obo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacapa Vending Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Those numbers sound very low for sooo many machines. Also 60k is about 3 years profits at 80k annual gross sales. . I'd start negotiations much lower as Cash is King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 Numbers are low as some drink machines are not placed at the moment. Its 32 location. Not sure exactly how many machines at each location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allprovending Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Numbers do sound low for that amount of machines but as you said some machines are not placed. You shouldn't have any problem setting up a Coke and Pepsi account. You may be able to negotiate with him depending on how badly he wants to sell. When I had my business in Texas for sale I had 2 or 3 people make offers every week and I turned them down because I wasn't desperate to sell and I busted my butt for 3 years working 80 to 100 hours a week so I wasn't going to give it away. Everyone on here knows how time consuming it is placing and setting up new locations but at my point of sale I was at 302 locations with 454 machines. Most of the lowball offers were because most of my machines I didn't own. The machines I owned were about 50 snack machines. I would tell them all the same thing that its like a mortgage company or a property management company, they don't have a lot of assets but it doesn't mean the company isn't worth money. Finally after 8 months I sold so I was a happy person. BTW the current owners, after just 9 months, is up to over 400 locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bvending Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 We try to offer 35-40% gross annual. Type and condition of machines play a role in that number, but that's our average. Then add product and change fund. Find out how many machines aren't placed, then calculate the per machine sales of what is placed. The numbers at this point are too low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 He is leaving product and change in the coin mechs. He said about 15 drink machines are in his warehouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Sounds pretty much turn key. Existing accounts can be better than the #s show if the products they actually want are in the machines. LED lights, good bill acceptors,clean machines all can make a difference but the service is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitalCityVendingLLC Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Yea. Seems like not that much gross for that many machines. With 15 in storage, that means roughly 75 in current accounts. That's barely over 1,000 a machine. That's garbage number's imo. The big thing in my book is what type of machines are they? If the machines that he/she owns are old and barely working its a huge no-go. If they are fairly new and won't need much repair work and whatnot, then it might be worth looking into. The accounts that they are sitting do not sound to be huge/big accounts. My company had an opportunity a while back to purchase about 65 machines that were in about 40 accounts. I forget the official price that was set for the route, (I think if was only around 30-40k). In the grand scheme of things the price was more than reasonable and we could have pulled the trigger and gone with it but there were too many factors involved that we didn't like. Most/all of the machines, drink and snack, were old with old changers/validators. It would have been a nightmare dealing with service calls. Also, most/all the equipment was different from what we try to stick with. We try to have interchangeable parts (changers/validators/etc.) and these machines did not fit that mold. Also the accounts weren't home runs by any means. The route grossed roughly 80k the previous year, so we would have made up the investment in no time, but big picture, there were just too many cons compared to pros. Looking back we could have (maybe should have) bought the route but we didn't. O well. If the machines were the same ones that we use and are familiar with, we would have jumped on the route in a heart beat. We did end up buying one account/machine from them. It was the only one that we knew would be a good account. As someone said earlier, I don't put much value in an account. Unless it's a huge account (10-20k per year and higher), I wouldn't put any value in paying for an account(s). That's just me though. I think there are plenty of accounts out there to be had depending on where you are located. In summary, there are a TON of variables that you have to weight. We can help you with some of them, but at the end of the day you have to answer some on your own. Definitely haggle with them and see how bad they are trying to sell the thing. You'd be surprised sometimes with people moving away or just plain fed up with the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I wouldn't buy it at any price unless those machines are late model good machines. Gross revenue is terrible and really not making any money considering the time spent working those accounts. Dont get wrapped around the axle about having to have an existing "route". In many situations you are just buying a headache and not worth the investment. I turned down a similar route last year and I could have gotten it at a steal. The machines where junk and the gross was low. The machines should be taken to the scrap metal pile but the accounts where not pulling enough revenue to justify the time and trouble to buy it, sort out the junk equipment and replace with decent equipment. Move on to something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 the machines snacks are all older usi, nothing newer like my ams newer machines that im used too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 the machines snacks are all older usi, nothing newer like my ams newer machines that im used too Like 3014 and 3015 USI? At the end of the day it is about revenue because machines can be bought about anywhere. So like I said unless it is a smoking deal on the machines I would move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 yes 3014 models, hes asking 60k with about 35k in liguid assets. Between the value of about $750 a machine and $130 worth of product and coin in the machine and also $7500 value of the truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJT Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 yes 3014 models, hes asking 60k with about 35k in liguid assets. Between the value of about $750 a machine and $130 worth of product and coin in the machine and also $7500 value of the truck Are you needing machines and a truck? That is what those machines are about worth so it is not a deal for the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 yes 3014 models, hes asking 60k with about 35k in liguid assets. Between the value of about $750 a machine and $130 worth of product and coin in the machine and also $7500 value of the truck Your liquid assets would only be the inventory and cash in the machines and coin mechs. Do you believe there's that much inventory and cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 ok i was including the value of the used machines and box truck into the liquid assests the 34 accounts grossed 80k last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 The equipment including the truck but not including the non-owned bottler assets will be fixed assets to you. Liquid assets are anything that you can turn quickly into cash. In a purchase such as this, you can immediately expense the inventory costs and then depreciate the equipment costs. You would probably qualify for the IRS Section 179 accelerated depreciation deduction if you need to offset significant income this tax year. Most times these small routes are purchased everything is rolled into the agreed purchase price regardless of the type of asset it is. The asset designation is purely for your own tax reasons if that can benefit you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitalCityVendingLLC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Yea, Having a truck in the deal is cool, if you need a truck. If you don't, then it just clouds up the deal, and potentially makes it not as good of a deal to some people. I personally wouldn't put any value in that truck, because I don't need a truck and at the end of the day, it's a 18 (soon to be 19) year old truck. I know nothing about the truck when it comes to mileage and service records but any vehicle that's 18 years old probably doesn't have much gas left in the tank. See what I did there. lol Sounds like this deal is more up my alley machines-wise. With exception to my new snack machines (AMS), almost all of my machines are USI's. They are good, user-friendly machines I think. With the addition of a tuffront here and there, you can get them looking pretty spiffy. That being said, I think $750 is kinda high per machine. If it was one individual USI being sold that was in good/great condition, $750 might be close to fair. With you buying them in bulk, that price drops a little imo. We buy machines from a local vending company from time to time when they retire their USI's and we pay 3-4 hundred per. Yes you can put an estimate on the coins in each changer but I wouldn't put that much value into the product in the machines (atleast the snack machines that is). If he is trying to sell the route, having fresh, current, up to date product in his machines right now are probably that last things he is concerned with. Decent chance you'd walk into a bunch of barely filled, close dated product in the snack machines. When it comes to the other drink machines that are being leased, I have no idea how to price/value all of that. I own 100% of my machines so I'm a dummy when it comes to that side of vending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew0582 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 im thinking 40k tops, at least i can make that back in one year time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitalCityVendingLLC Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Ultimately, if it were me, it comes down to the accounts the machines are sitting in. Could be the best machines in the world but if they are in slow accounts they are in slow accounts. You can always pick them up and relocate but a lot of work goes into that. My company always tries to move machines as few times as possible. I'd definitely offer a low number and see how badly he/she wants to sell. Let us know what you end up doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZVendor Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 That's probably a good starting point if still a bit high. Half of one year's verifiable gross sales isn't out of line unless the seller thinks it is. Maybe start at $30-35K and if you end up at $40K you tell him it has to include everything. You have to deduct for 20 year old snacks and add no value for the bottler machines. This guy added these accounts with very little investment other than time and a low selling price is the end result. If he had invested in newer machines and swapped the free soda machines for owned pieces then he could expect a lot more. This is a good way to build a route but not if you plan on selling it for a pretty penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.