The Terminator vs. T- Bird

[T BIRD]

I walked into my Nissan service location yesterday to service and collect money for the first time and lo and behold there was a Terminator machine right next to mine.  It was not there when I placed the machine a month ago.  What a monstrosity!  I never saw one before.  Eight products?  Unbelievable.  Anyway........I proceeded to put two signs up in my double stating ' try me now......bigger handful'.  We will see what happens.  The service guy at the desk and his partner were treated royally by me when I was there.  I told them I opened up the vend abit.  They were impressed and said they would pass that info along.

[bacho]

Sorry to hear that, Johnny. I had that happen to me two months ago in the professional building lobby. It absolutely killed me. He's vending everything I offered and more. More than likely he will have lots of stale product. 8 selections is way too much for that location. I also learned he has one on each of the 5 floors. What a total waste!

This weekend I'm replacing it with a DI machine. Hopefully I can attract the office people with the gum.

Good luck in trying to beat him.

[West Coast Vend LLC]

Just what you need is two vending machines, side-by-side in a car dealership. I think you have the right approach with acting quickly with the signs. Maybe the guy will give up or not come back. Hopefully, the same locator that got the account for you didn't get it for this guy.

Gary

[T BIRD]

Just what you need is two vending machines, side-by-side in a car dealership. I think you have the right approach with acting quickly with the signs. Maybe the guy will give up or not come back. Hopefully, the same locator that got the account for you didn't get it for this guy.

Gary

Hey Gary.......Midwest would never do that.  There have been a couple of times where they have called me about locations near me and asked if it was too close to where I will be expanding to with them.  The signs will keep my numbers the way I want them I think.

[Jax Snacks]

There is a goofball 8-select U-Turn vendor here who sets all of his candy settings way above the (already too high) vendor recommenced settings. I mean he vends 15 MMP, 25 Skittles and 28 Reeses per quarter! I always wondered why his machine was always so low and why so much candy was on the floor. I put a few quarters in and now I know why! He has hurt my sales a bit, but I sell mostly toys in those places. He can't possibly be making much money at those settings and will eventually fade away.

Those 8-selects are also a potential liability due to them tipping over - kids love to play with them and will spin them violently. They also can make a big mess on the floor and get us all kicked out. Many will be abandoned as well.  I do have a few of them with mostly toys, but I have cut the pole in half to lower the center of gravity.

You just have to out service them and wait them out. It will take some time, so be patient! There is another vendor here with 700 of those 8-select beasts and he is trying to sell his route for about $169,000.  Lately, his machines have been very empty and neglected - so my sales are now picking up. When I see his empty machines, I just hum that tune by Queen, "Another one bites the dust".

Jax

[AmuseStar Vending Co]

Whew! Gotta' love the $666 U-Turn 8 Selects!

Best of luck with this account T Bird!

Jax: I read a story just the other day that fits your description (In FL):

http://www.uturnvending.com/news/augcoverstory.pdf

Is this the man you are taking about?

Kyle

[Outlander]

Hmm just tried that link, doesn't exist or the server is down. Maybe T-Bird ran the whole company out of business.

[T BIRD]

Hmm just tried that link, doesn't exist or the server is down. Maybe T-Bird ran the whole company out of business.

Fred.......ya think?........Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm  

[Jax Snacks]

Yea Kyle, That's him! He tried to sell his route 3 or 4 years ago for over $350,000. I guess there were no takers and he decided to pay down some debt. Here is the link for his route and here is your chance to move to sunny Florida! Take note that the seller prefers cash!

http://www.bizbuysell.com/cgi-bin/addetail?p=0&s=FL&i=AH&w=q&county=&pfrom=&pto=&ss=1&tab=eb&q=420836

I can't imagine buying 700 of anything - no matter how much I loved it. I think I would rather buy 20 machines and maybe just try that out for a while and then if things went well I would buy another 20 and so on. Some sales dog at U-turn must have laid a real story on this guy and got a very sweet commission.

I also can't imagine having to service 700 8-select locations - talk about time consuming. I also can not imagine paying an employee to run a bulk candy charity route since that overhead would practically kill any profit he would make. Yellow is also a very bad color to go with - it will not hold up in the industrial locations and over time the nicks, dents and scratches really take their toll on any yellow machine. I only place yellow machines in nice clean office buildings.

I started with 10 4-select U-turns in 2000. I don't regret that, but I am glad I also discovered Northwestern and of course my favorite Shootin Hoops.  I feel kinda bad now since he seems like a nice guy, but nothing short of a government bail out can save him (IMO).

Jax

[Beer980]

The route does seem to make a good ammount if the numbers are true though. With 22 machines a day serviced on 6 week rotation. Figure a 30% COG and it leaves $150,000+ profit. Of course $28 per 8 select is not a good average per machine but the volume seems to make up for it in the end. The problem is without financing it will be hard to buy.

[Jax Snacks]

IMO, a 100% 8-select vending route is flawed - too much servicing time and too much product waste and too much time spent looking for 8 different candy products that will sell (and never do). This guy also dumps his machines in ANY location that will accept it. I had a number of $10 per month locations in some industrial areas. They turned into $6 per month locations after he installed his 8-selects. I decided to moved out - he can have those $10 spots. $10 per month on 8-selects is a bad ROI. He does add some low-margin nuts to increase revenue, but his profits on a 8-select can't be that good.  He sells no toys either.

Also remember that he is paying an employee to do this - move overhead and potential fraud. U-turn really pushes those 8-selects and gives the line that more selections equals more profits - which is simply not true. Doubles and triples would make the same revenue in many of his locations. No bank will lend that kind of money for a vending venture!

Amazingly, he is in only 3 locations I am in. I refuse to dump machines in $5 locations just to park them to save on storage costs and then service them every 6 to 8 months. That type of model is not for me.

Jax

[AmuseStar Vending Co]

I think that article was a little sugar coated for U Turn. I find it hard to believe that he personally located 700 of the u-turn monsters into 700 locations that do $20 or more (and some that do over $180 a month).  All in four months, on no commission! Whew! What a lucky man! Or must be a good sales man (oh, and have tons of money to throw way). From what you have told, he has really stopped caring after this article was written. Or, they approached him right when he was excited about his business. This exact story almost sold me to buying 10- 8 Selects when I first started.

http://www.uturnvending.com/#p101|News

His is the first story guys.

If he was making as much as he claims from the machines, he would not be selling them for over $200!

Kyle

[T BIRD]

There is another Terminator at a Conway Clothing store where I have a double head machine. It must have been placed there within the past 5 weeks. The machine just looks so ridiculous standing there in this little break room.  I am also pissed that it is there.

[Jax Snacks]

Yea, U-Turn is really pushing those 8-selects and convincing new prospects that 8 selections will out sell 4-selections. The problem is that the locations (initially) like having many selections until the vendor gets discouraged (since only 3 or 4 products are selling and his revenues are not what he expected) and starts neglecting the machine. Wait them out, out service them, do 2-fers if possible, vend a larger quantity, develop a rapport with the location, etc.  Also give out some free gumballs and let them know that they are fresh and chewier - unlike that other stuff from you-know-where!

Jax

[ROGERS VENDING]

Hey, at least the man has a hot wife!  I'm sure he BOUGHT her too!!  I can't believe some of these ridiculous stories.  People hype themselves like crazy.  NOBODY ever wants to talk like they fail at anything.  I've tried to buy a few routes here but the owners are still in denial 3 years later!!!!

[T BIRD]

ROGERS VENDING wrote:

Hey, at least the man has a hot wife!  I'm sure he BOUGHT her too!!  I can't believe some of these ridiculous stories.  People hype themselves like crazy.  NOBODY ever wants to talk like they fail at anything.  I've tried to buy a few routes here but the owners are still in denial 3 years later!!!!

Well.......so much for The Terminator. My little 2 head A&A Elite did $36.50 vending Mike and Ikes and MMPs with a sign that says bigger vend in each globe......lol.

[Jax Snacks]

I have been told by others that Uturn tells their prospects that when a location gets saturated with too many machines, they will always keep the one with the most selections! That may happen in some exception cases, but that is really not a true statement. The location keeps the machine that is best serviced, most reliable and has the products that they like.

All those selections are supposed to "terminate" the competition according to their marketing hype. I would guess that Uturn doesn't tell their prospects that there are really only a small set of products that sell consistently and all the rest are a waste of time. It looks like you are still alive there and in no danger of being terminated. Even a terminator will have a judgement day some day.

Jax

[reel]

Very interesting reading the above comments on the terminators, i have a reasonable amount of uturns both 4 and 8 select machines and from my personal experience a lot of the comments that i just read is in fact incorrect from my own experiences.

I have sites that i have swapped from a 4 to an 8 select machine and there is no doubt that turnover has greatly increased wherever this change has been made.

The majority of my 8 select machines turnover no less than A$50.00 per week per machine which is great money in comparison to some of the figures quoted on this site.

my 8 selects are mainly sited in sports clubs, hotels and bars including childrens entertainment rooms within these venues and as far as the machine falling over is concerned this has never ever been an issue at all. Spillage is very low and we have avoided this by placing spill trays on the 8 selects in these type of venues.

Its quite obvious that since being on this site that on a per machine basis our machines here in Aust are generally far more profitable than in the USA, i think the reason for this is your vends are largely quarters where as here our vends are largely set a $1 per vend and $2 on amusment machines.

With these comments im not doubting anyones comments on this paticular subject but simply stating my own personal experiences.

[antoniocinisi]

rnwahlen:I hate the biz-op end of it.I bought(and sold some) mine used on ebay at a fraction of what they want.I do toys on top and candy on bottom on most of mine.I have  2 locations that are worth haveing both candy on top and bottom.I had 7-4  term and 3 eliminator and  have sold 3.they take time to service,this isn`t always a concern to me though.they can make a bunch of money in the right places ecspecially since I do toys and candy with the terminators.

a small/medium breakroom is probably not the best place for these machines ecspecially if theres a machine in there already.

[T BIRD]

Thats the main point Antonio. This guy is placing these monsters in small break rooms which makes absolutely no sense at all.

[antoniocinisi]

Thats the main point Antonio. This guy is placing these monsters in small break rooms which makes absolutely no sense at all.

oh I hear ya Johnny I understand your frustration.are these machines still at the locations you are in?

[T BIRD]

They are still there.......yes Antonio.

[Jax Snacks]

Very interesting reading the above comments on the terminators, i have a reasonable amount of uturns both 4 and 8 select machines and from my personal experience a lot of the comments that i just read is in fact incorrect from my own experiences.

I have sites that i have swapped from a 4 to an 8 select machine and there is no doubt that turnover has greatly increased wherever this change has been made.

Ron, Glad to hear that your 8-selects are doing well.  I don't doubt that you are having success with them.  It just goes to show, that what may work for one vendor may not work for another and visa-versa.  Just curious, but what 8 products do you vend?  Are they similar to what we vend here in the USA?

Here is another story.  I once had a decent adult clientele location with a 4-select with MMP, RP, MI and Chic Tabs.  I upgraded it and added Plain MM, Hot Toms, Skittles and Gumballs.  Well 3 of the 4 new products were really duds and the new machine generated the same revenue.  Interestingly enough, the gumballs sold very well and the Chic Tabs stopped selling. 

What I am finding today in many of my breakrooms is that only 2 selections are selling consistently and the other 2 end up being thrown out eventually.  So I am going to downgrade many 4-select breakroom/adult locations to 2-selects.   Adults in the USA don't seem to want variety, but  rather the same-old same-old.  Now the locations with kids is another matter since you can offer toys and other sweet candies and the extra selections can pay off nicely.

Another vendor wants to buy some of my 4-selects.  He has 80 8-selects and told me that he also has trouble selling 8 products in many locations and wants some 4-selects to put in their place.

Thanks for feedback.  And yes, I wish we had a dollar coin as well.

Jax

[T BIRD]

mw......I hear ya. My point is with these machines, they should be placed in the right type of location. If you saw where these 2 8 product machines were placed you would shake your head. I have 2 heads in each and thats plenty for those 2 break rooms. Hey this guy can do what he wants. My machines are sparkling clean and have a sign that says "try me now.....bigger vend". So I am fine with those skyscrapers there.

[reel]

Jax,

Yes mostly what we vend here is similiar to what you have in the USA . Our range consists of MM choc, MMP, skittles, jelly beans (small hard ones from china), boo boo bytes ( same as your chicle tabs) gourmet mints, fresh fruits, rascals, gumballs (dubble bubble),musk drops, jawbreakers and orange chocs (orange coated dark chocolate balls).

Through the 8 selects we have 6 of the above plus one canister each of 27mm bouncy balls and 1.1inch capsuled toys.

We usually have the toys on top with 2 x 20c vends comprising gumballs and jawbreakers or jelly beans, we usually vary the second canister containing the jelly beans. The bottom 4 canisters are all $1 vends.

Yes i agree about the breakrooms, having an 8 select in most of these situations would be a total waste of a 8 select machine, however, all of our 8 select machines are in high turnover sites namely hotels,clubs pubs and backpacker accommodation premises.

As i said previously i just love these machines they turnover great cash for us. If the freight charges was not so incredibly expensive i would have loved to have bought some of these machines secondhand direct from the USA to Aust.

Yes Jax some of our dead sites, anything turning over under $15 pm or under can do with a 2 head instead of the triples and uturns we have on these paticular sites. What i am trying to do currently is drastically reduce the chocolate sold in our machines to just MM choc and the other canisters filled with just hard longer life candy which has a longer life and is resistant to heat.

Interesting what you said about most seeming to want the same old all the time as here it seems a lot of our customers like to see a product change in one of the canisters on a regular basis.

We sell the small 27mm bouncy balls and the 1.1inch caps for a $1 currently, i do understand that uturn is currently working on supplying a $2 coin mech into the market which is grear as then i can vend the 35mm balls for the $2 and have 2 different sized balls in the one 8 select machine.

To give you an idea of the kind of premises we have 8 selects look at these 2 sites:

swelltavern.com.au and carinaleaguesclub.com.au

Best wishes Jax, mate with your 9 years in the business i sure would love to chat with you and get some tips on the bulk vending business.