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Snack box update


bhumphrey829

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I haven't kept up with all of your updates, but if your margins are anywhere near where mine were (about 45% of COLLECTED revenue), then you are killing it right now.  Seeing as how you seem to average $1500/week or so, it sounds like you're making absolutely plenty of money in my opinion.  It's amazing that you have shown us what an honor box route can really do with some work and dedication.  If I ever advised someone to get into some sort of vending for relatively easy money without a lot of investing, I would recommend honor boxes all day long.  All you really need is a large hatchback (such as my scion xb) or a "small" mini van.  Those ford transit connects would be perfect because they get good gas mileage and hold a lot of stuff.  Probably overkill but it would look nice, plus you could add a few can soda machines and really maximize your profitability but maybe that's pushing it lol.

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On 10/2/2017 at 8:18 PM, AngryChris said:

I haven't kept up with all of your updates, but if your margins are anywhere near where mine were (about 45% of COLLECTED revenue), then you are killing it right now.  Seeing as how you seem to average $1500/week or so, it sounds like you're making absolutely plenty of money in my opinion.  It's amazing that you have shown us what an honor box route can really do with some work and dedication.  If I ever advised someone to get into some sort of vending for relatively easy money without a lot of investing, I would recommend honor boxes all day long.  All you really need is a large hatchback (such as my scion xb) or a "small" mini van.  Those ford transit connects would be perfect because they get good gas mileage and hold a lot of stuff.  Probably overkill but it would look nice, plus you could add a few can soda machines and really maximize your profitability but maybe that's pushing it lol.

Thanks Angry.  I agree honor boxes are the way to go, however, it's definitely not for everyone.  If a person doesn't have thick skin, I definitely would not recommend this business lol.  It's easy to get really frustrated when you walk into a business to change out the box, and it might be 70% percent short , your blood wants to boil and feel like jerking the box out of there.  If you just look at it as part of the "game", because there is going to be theft, then this is a great business.  It's not an easy business, but it doesn't get much more simple.  You just have to be persistent and know that you will always be pulling and placing accounts.  I myself, can't think of anything i would rather be doing than this.  

As far as vehicle goes, I run my route in a hyundai tuscon.  Right now I run between 20 and 25 boxes a day, but I believe i could fit about 30-40 boxes in there.  After that i will have to get something bigger.  I would like to add soda machines to the mix, in fact i did have 3 of them, but I just don't have the room for sodas in my vehicle. 

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16 minutes ago, bhumphrey829 said:

Weekly update:  260 locations.  Grossed $1,760.00 Avg  $22.55 per box. theft ran 9%, serviced 72 boxes. 

Wow!  You are KILLING IT out there!  Nice job, Bryan!  I wish I had that usage percentage on all of our routes.  That's FANTASTIC!  And SUPER shortages as well.  Keep it up! :) 

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Yes, sir, this was a good week.  The last couple of weeks have been a little down. I was kind of worried about what was going lol.  Just part of the game i guess lol.  

By the way, do your numbers go down quite a bit during the holidays?  Mine did last year as everyone starts eating all the "goodies" people bring in.  Then of course everyone goes on diets so they don't want the temptation of "bad" snacks in their eyesight.  What are your thoughts on this?

 

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On 10/13/2017 at 8:41 PM, bhumphrey829 said:

Yes, sir, this was a good week.  The last couple of weeks have been a little down. I was kind of worried about what was going lol.  Just part of the game i guess lol.  

By the way, do your numbers go down quite a bit during the holidays?  Mine did last year as everyone starts eating all the "goodies" people bring in.  Then of course everyone goes on diets so they don't want the temptation of "bad" snacks in their eyesight.  What are your thoughts on this?

 

When I had snack machines in Toledo. They were all banks. They all had weight scales on the side of machines. That was insulting!

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On 10/13/2017 at 8:41 PM, bhumphrey829 said:

Yes, sir, this was a good week.  The last couple of weeks have been a little down. I was kind of worried about what was going lol.  Just part of the game i guess lol.  

By the way, do your numbers go down quite a bit during the holidays?  Mine did last year as everyone starts eating all the "goodies" people bring in.  Then of course everyone goes on diets so they don't want the temptation of "bad" snacks in their eyesight.  What are your thoughts on this?

 

We see sales drop during the 2 weeks of Christmas and New Year's.  The weeks leading up to Christmas are usually GREAT weeks for us.  Retailers have brought on more staff, factories are working harder leading up to the holiday break, so we see an increase.  Then the holidays hit and usage drops drastically for a couple weeks.  Usually by the middle of January, we see the volume turn around and slowly start increasing.  By February, we are typically back to regular volume again. :) 

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Bhumphrey829 i am scratching my head and really wondering what i am doing wrong when i see your theft rate. And no.....i do not think you are lying. I do feel like I MUST BE doing something wrong. 

I have about 50 boxes out now. Pulled quite a few. I have the mint pink Candy for a Cause boxes out. I am crazy about keeping product fresh. Started july - have not gone 15 days without a swap. 

I have a few - about 5 - that shrinkage is under 10 per cent. All my boxes are in retail places. I do NOT do offices (not opposed by any means - at retail i am excellent in placing - the few offices i tried could not get anyone in charge to come out and talk to me - all the same garbage....leave a card, give me ur website and Mr Smith or Jones will call u).

my boxes are with mints and snack chocolates. Each item i place costs me roughly a dime. They sell 50 cents. 2 for a dollar. The past few weeks an "average" box might have 30 pieces ate - so my cost is about 3 bucks. The average collect on that lately has been about 5.50.

Again several boxes are great. I emptied a box yesterday - 41 bucks in it. 15 pieces left. A profit of around 24 bucks for ten days. Delighted with that. 

I work a big city area but stick to the medium priced suburbs to place my boxes.  Not in the inner city.

So my question not just to you Mr Humphrey but everyone reading this - am i better shooting for office locations?? If i get office locations am i better with a more "traditional" (chips, crackers, etc)  offering with much less candy? 

Should i stick to the retail type places i now have - chinese n mex restaurants, hair and barber salons, shoe stores, nail salons and try a more "traditional" mix (chips, crackers, etc) with those type customers? Product cost will at least double - granted i will sell each item for a buck - and if a box has the same theft rate as a box that pays $5.50 now i will be upside down quick. 

What i do NOT want to do is pay a locator. Profit margin too thin. So....if i go into offices i need to learn to do myself. Again i am EXCELLENT at locating in retail. 

I am all ears. I really listen to suggestions. I am hoping you guys have some insight.  

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On 10/20/2017 at 6:36 PM, bhumphrey829 said:

Weekly update:  259 locations.  Grossed $1,737.75  Avg  $23.50  Theft ran 12% Serviced 74 boxes

Bryan, you are KILLING it!  You have a great box average, excellent volume, and some of the best shortages that I've seen in the industry.  Keep up the AWESOME work, my friend! :) 

38 minutes ago, hope4honor said:

I have read all 15 pages. Thank you! Keep it going. I was about ready to toss in towel after 2 weeks poor performance. You reinvigoated me. 

He definitely is running a SUPER operation. :) 

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7 minutes ago, hope4honor said:

Bhumphrey829 i am scratching my head and really wondering what i am doing wrong when i see your theft rate. And no.....i do not think you are lying. I do feel like I MUST BE doing something wrong. 

I have about 50 boxes out now. Pulled quite a few. I have the mint pink Candy for a Cause boxes out. I am crazy about keeping product fresh. Started july - have not gone 15 days without a swap. 

I have a few - about 5 - that shrinkage is under 10 per cent. All my boxes are in retail places. I do NOT do offices (not opposed by any means - at retail i am excellent in placing - the few offices i tried could not get anyone in charge to come out and talk to me - all the same garbage....leave a card, give me ur website and Mr Smith or Jones will call u).

my boxes are with mints and snack chocolates. Each item i place costs me roughly a dime. They sell 50 cents. 2 for a dollar. The past few weeks an "average" box might have 30 pieces ate - so my cost is about 3 bucks. The average collect on that lately has been about 5.50.

Again several boxes are great. I emptied a box yesterday - 41 bucks in it. 15 pieces left. A profit of around 24 bucks for ten days. Delighted with that. 

I work a big city area but stick to the medium priced suburbs to place my boxes.  Not in the inner city.

So my question not just to you Mr Humphrey but everyone reading this - am i better shooting for office locations?? If i get office locations am i better with a more "traditional" (chips, crackers, etc)  offering with much less candy? 

Should i stick to the retail type places i now have - chinese n mex restaurants, hair and barber salons, shoe stores, nail salons and try a more "traditional" mix (chips, crackers, etc) with those type customers? Product cost will at least double - granted i will sell each item for a buck - and if a box has the same theft rate as a box that pays $5.50 now i will be upside down quick. 

What i do NOT want to do is pay a locator. Profit margin too thin. So....if i go into offices i need to learn to do myself. Again i am EXCELLENT at locating in retail. 

I am all ears. I really listen to suggestions. I am hoping you guys have some insight.  

Mint boxes and snack boxes are 2 different animals. While your shortages are high in some areas, they others are doing good. For mint boxes you don't want office buildings. You won't make anything. Snack boxes do make it though in offices.

I'm not sure why you're avoiding the inner city other than traffic. I'm not sure what your local laws are, but you can put magnetic signs on the doors of your vehicle in our area and then you don't have to find parking. you just put on your hazards and run in and swap the box out. Make sure there is an extra 2/1.00 or 50 cents on the top flat part. I put our's in the upper left corner of the box so people can see it better. 

when using mint boxes, if the theft doesn't get better, then pull it and find a new spot. Theft in our area is 10-60% minimum. I figure if I double my money I'm good. 

I don't service boxes with less than 5.00 in it. If it can last a month, why service in 2 weeks? It takes the same amount of time to service either way! I personally have set up our routes on service cycles and broken them up in to sensible routes.  We have a 7, 14, and 28 day route, then area's.

As for using a locator, if you can do it yourself and have the time and the patience then you don't need one. Using a locator is a tool. But don't use your results as reason to use one or not for profitability. I have a locating company, I can easily find locations for myself, but I pay my staff to find mine because I don't want to mess with it. Figuring profit has become a different style. I figure profit on the time the box is in there, and treat it like a business. If I can double my money I'm good.

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5 minutes ago, hope4honor said:

Bhumphrey829 i am scratching my head and really wondering what i am doing wrong when i see your theft rate. And no.....i do not think you are lying. I do feel like I MUST BE doing something wrong. 

I have about 50 boxes out now. Pulled quite a few. I have the mint pink Candy for a Cause boxes out. I am crazy about keeping product fresh. Started july - have not gone 15 days without a swap. 

I have a few - about 5 - that shrinkage is under 10 per cent. All my boxes are in retail places. I do NOT do offices (not opposed by any means - at retail i am excellent in placing - the few offices i tried could not get anyone in charge to come out and talk to me - all the same garbage....leave a card, give me ur website and Mr Smith or Jones will call u).

my boxes are with mints and snack chocolates. Each item i place costs me roughly a dime. They sell 50 cents. 2 for a dollar. The past few weeks an "average" box might have 30 pieces ate - so my cost is about 3 bucks. The average collect on that lately has been about 5.50.

Again several boxes are great. I emptied a box yesterday - 41 bucks in it. 15 pieces left. A profit of around 24 bucks for ten days. Delighted with that. 

I work a big city area but stick to the medium priced suburbs to place my boxes.  Not in the inner city.

So my question not just to you Mr Humphrey but everyone reading this - am i better shooting for office locations?? If i get office locations am i better with a more "traditional" (chips, crackers, etc)  offering with much less candy? 

Should i stick to the retail type places i now have - chinese n mex restaurants, hair and barber salons, shoe stores, nail salons and try a more "traditional" mix (chips, crackers, etc) with those type customers? Product cost will at least double - granted i will sell each item for a buck - and if a box has the same theft rate as a box that pays $5.50 now i will be upside down quick. 

What i do NOT want to do is pay a locator. Profit margin too thin. So....if i go into offices i need to learn to do myself. Again i am EXCELLENT at locating in retail. 

I am all ears. I really listen to suggestions. I am hoping you guys have some insight.  

I just read your questions to Bryan and I don't mean to "Hi-jack" the conversation, but here's my 2 cents.  First, the Honor Snack trays and the Honor Mint boxes are two different animals, even though they are both "Honor" systems.  The Mint/Bulk candy/Lollipop boxes are geared more toward a Public venue: i.e. Restaurant counters, Nail/Hair salons, waiting areas.  The Honor Snack trays (Lss chips, Full size candy bars, bag cookies, etc.) are more for the individual company's break area: for the employees themselves, not the public. The Mint boxes are more for the "passing" impulse purchase, while the Snack Tray is more for the coffee/lunch break purchase.  

Second, if you are purchasing candy for about 10 cents a unit, why not sell at either .50/ each or 3 for a dollar OR maybe ,25/each and 5 for a dollar.  This may bump up your volume greatly AND make it more appealing when you make sales calls.  When most vendors are selling full size candy bars for $1.00 or $1.25, .50 for a bite size candy may seem a bit much.  At my company, we are all about VOLUME.  Bigger sales volume will help balance out the shortage aspect of our business.  But again, I'm coming from the Honor SNACK tray perspective.  

I agree with you about the locators.  I employ my own sales reps because some locators can be unreliable for decent accounts (not all locators are bad). Just my 2 cents!  I love your enthusiasm in your business and hope everything falls into place for you! :)  

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3 minutes ago, rodney69 said:

Mint boxes and snack boxes are 2 different animals. While your shortages are high in some areas, they others are doing good. For mint boxes you don't want office buildings. You won't make anything. Snack boxes do make it though in offices.

I'm not sure why you're avoiding the inner city other than traffic. I'm not sure what your local laws are, but you can put magnetic signs on the doors of your vehicle in our area and then you don't have to find parking. you just put on your hazards and run in and swap the box out. Make sure there is an extra 2/1.00 or 50 cents on the top flat part. I put our's in the upper left corner of the box so people can see it better. 

when using mint boxes, if the theft doesn't get better, then pull it and find a new spot. Theft in our area is 10-60% minimum. I figure if I double my money I'm good. 

I don't service boxes with less than 5.00 in it. If it can last a month, why service in 2 weeks? It takes the same amount of time to service either way! I personally have set up our routes on service cycles and broken them up in to sensible routes.  We have a 7, 14, and 28 day route, then area's.

As for using a locator, if you can do it yourself and have the time and the patience then you don't need one. Using a locator is a tool. But don't use your results as reason to use one or not for profitability. I have a locating company, I can easily find locations for myself, but I pay my staff to find mine because I don't want to mess with it. Figuring profit has become a different style. I figure profit on the time the box is in there, and treat it like a business. If I can double my money I'm good.

Holy Smokes Rodney!  I literally posted my reply the same time you did!  Great minds think alike...LOL! :) 

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28 minutes ago, flintflash said:

I just read your questions to Bryan and I don't mean to "Hi-jack" the conversation, but here's my 2 cents.  First, the Honor Snack trays and the Honor Mint boxes are two different animals, even though they are both "Honor" systems.  The Mint/Bulk candy/Lollipop boxes are geared more toward a Public venue: i.e. Restaurant counters, Nail/Hair salons, waiting areas.  The Honor Snack trays (Lss chips, Full size candy bars, bag cookies, etc.) are more for the individual company's break area: for the employees themselves, not the public. The Mint boxes are more for the "passing" impulse purchase, while the Snack Tray is more for the coffee/lunch break purchase.  

Second, if you are purchasing candy for about 10 cents a unit, why not sell at either .50/ each or 3 for a dollar OR maybe ,25/each and 5 for a dollar.  This may bump up your volume greatly AND make it more appealing when you make sales calls.  When most vendors are selling full size candy bars for $1.00 or $1.25, .50 for a bite size candy may seem a bit much.  At my company, we are all about VOLUME.  Bigger sales volume will help balance out the shortage aspect of our business.  But again, I'm coming from the Honor SNACK tray perspective.  

I agree with you about the locators.  I employ my own sales reps because some locators can be unreliable for decent accounts (not all locators are bad). Just my 2 cents!  I love your enthusiasm in your business and hope everything falls into place for you! :)  

I wouldn't go lower that 25 cents.  Even at 25 there will be many with too much shrinkage or more accurately stealage, in my opinion.

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Rodney - thank you for the very detailed response. Ok - so I now at least know I am not insane. A 60% loss ratio is tolerable. And I agree with Rodney - if I can double the money on the box, that is very good. I was beginning to feel like I was really messed up - again I have enormous respect for what I read from (Brian?) Mr. Humphreys - and I could not figure out where I was going wrong. I was comparing apples to oranges. 

I appreciate Mr. Flintflash comments too. Not sure the price is the issue and honestly think if I lower it to 3 for a buck I am asking for other problems - the de facto new price becomes 33 cents each. I only want one. OOPS. I don't have 33 cents. I will toss in a quarter. Its only 8 cents short. I am NOT getting price resistance.  I have enough out there that I do believe 2 for a buck is the right price without lowering the profit margin more. But....now that I am writing this - you bring up some valid points Flintflash. I think I will do a test on some NEW locations and see how they react. 

 

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So it kind of begs the next question. Just doing these mint boxes, and if I do not do the traditional honor boxes, do you think a decent living can be made?

Let me define decent. 500 boxes, each "netting" 10 a month after paying royalties/donation. BEing able to keep this steady. 

I read a very long winded posting by a guy a couple of years ago ranting and raving how the mint boxes are doomed to failure, blah, blah. I did not pay it too much mind. I have dealt with guys like that in other industries. Usually those are the "I want to make thousands while I sleep" kind of guys, and don't do much at all to push it while they are awake. 

 

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One other question. I looked in all the downloads. Nothing really I see that works great, or services my needs.. What I want is spreadsheet that can track easily shortage, profit per service, ytd profit, profit per route, shortages, etc. I want to enter 3 numbers. Ideally date I service. The cash I pull out. The product left in box. I want it to calculate the rest. 

I then want it to feed up to a sub-master spreadsheet for each route and then a master for the whole operation. 

I started my own spreadsheets. Kind of a bungled mess. I am decent at excel but I want in easy to display fashion also (I know - lots of "I wants").

I signed up for a free Vendtrak to check it out. I called and left Vendtrak a voice mail if someone can call me back. No one called me back. I don't really want to invest hours learning it if something better/easier/free already exists. For these mint boxes you think Vendtrak is way to go? Overall what I do is very simple. Everything costs about a dime. 

Anyone have a spreadsheet just for mint boxes that is simple and can do what I want. 

God Bless you guys. I mean this from my heart. Vending I am seeing can be a bit lonely. Not just lonely but no one to bounce ideas off of. There is no water cooler. Your answers mean the world to me!!

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, hope4honor said:

One other question. I looked in all the downloads. Nothing really I see that works great, or services my needs.. What I want is spreadsheet that can track easily shortage, profit per service, ytd profit, profit per route, shortages, etc. I want to enter 3 numbers. Ideally date I service. The cash I pull out. The product left in box. I want it to calculate the rest. 

I then want it to feed up to a sub-master spreadsheet for each route and then a master for the whole operation. 

I started my own spreadsheets. Kind of a bungled mess. I am decent at excel but I want in easy to display fashion also (I know - lots of "I wants").

I signed up for a free Vendtrak to check it out. I called and left Vendtrak a voice mail if someone can call me back. No one called me back. I don't really want to invest hours learning it if something better/easier/free already exists. For these mint boxes you think Vendtrak is way to go? Overall what I do is very simple. Everything costs about a dime. 

Anyone have a spreadsheet just for mint boxes that is simple and can do what I want. 

God Bless you guys. I mean this from my heart. Vending I am seeing can be a bit lonely. Not just lonely but no one to bounce ideas off of. There is no water cooler. Your answers mean the world to me!!

 

 

 

If you want better service and something more geared towards snacks, call Vendsoft, or send him an email. Tell him Rodney sent you.

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11 hours ago, hope4honor said:

Rodney - thank you for the very detailed response. Ok - so I now at least know I am not insane. A 60% loss ratio is tolerable. And I agree with Rodney - if I can double the money on the box, that is very good. I was beginning to feel like I was really messed up - again I have enormous respect for what I read from (Brian?) Mr. Humphreys - and I could not figure out where I was going wrong. I was comparing apples to oranges. 

I appreciate Mr. Flintflash comments too. Not sure the price is the issue and honestly think if I lower it to 3 for a buck I am asking for other problems - the de facto new price becomes 33 cents each. I only want one. OOPS. I don't have 33 cents. I will toss in a quarter. Its only 8 cents short. I am NOT getting price resistance.  I have enough out there that I do believe 2 for a buck is the right price without lowering the profit margin more. But....now that I am writing this - you bring up some valid points Flintflash. I think I will do a test on some NEW locations and see how they react. 

 

We went from 3 for a 1.00 to buy 2 for 1.00 dollar and set the route in a close town. What we found is the box made the same dollar amount. At 3/1.00 we make an average of 20.00 per box when it empties (which holds about 85 mints). At 2/1.00, guess what? 95% of the  boxes were were the same amount of money. 1 out of 20 had more in it. 

What I'm getting at is in the mint box idea and the business in my area only brings in the perceived value no matter what the tag on it is. But, I wouldn't be opposed to trying a cheaper idea, but it would have to be a controlled test.  I would have to figure in service time, gas to fill it up more often and hourly wage. I like the 3/1.00 idea better for our area, but I think that it depends on where you're at. Same goes for any vending. If you're down south where the hourly wage is lower, you have to adapt others opinions. If you live in Seattle, you might be able to pull 2/1.00 and have lower theft if the entitlement isn't too bad.

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18 hours ago, hope4honor said:

Bhumphrey829 i am scratching my head and really wondering what i am doing wrong when i see your theft rate. And no.....i do not think you are lying. I do feel like I MUST BE doing something wrong. 

I have about 50 boxes out now. Pulled quite a few. I have the mint pink Candy for a Cause boxes out. I am crazy about keeping product fresh. Started july - have not gone 15 days without a swap. 

I have a few - about 5 - that shrinkage is under 10 per cent. All my boxes are in retail places. I do NOT do offices (not opposed by any means - at retail i am excellent in placing - the few offices i tried could not get anyone in charge to come out and talk to me - all the same garbage....leave a card, give me ur website and Mr Smith or Jones will call u).

my boxes are with mints and snack chocolates. Each item i place costs me roughly a dime. They sell 50 cents. 2 for a dollar. The past few weeks an "average" box might have 30 pieces ate - so my cost is about 3 bucks. The average collect on that lately has been about 5.50.

Again several boxes are great. I emptied a box yesterday - 41 bucks in it. 15 pieces left. A profit of around 24 bucks for ten days. Delighted with that. 

I work a big city area but stick to the medium priced suburbs to place my boxes.  Not in the inner city.

So my question not just to you Mr Humphrey but everyone reading this - am i better shooting for office locations?? If i get office locations am i better with a more "traditional" (chips, crackers, etc)  offering with much less candy? 

Should i stick to the retail type places i now have - chinese n mex restaurants, hair and barber salons, shoe stores, nail salons and try a more "traditional" mix (chips, crackers, etc) with those type customers? Product cost will at least double - granted i will sell each item for a buck - and if a box has the same theft rate as a box that pays $5.50 now i will be upside down quick. 

What i do NOT want to do is pay a locator. Profit margin too thin. So....if i go into offices i need to learn to do myself. Again i am EXCELLENT at locating in retail. 

I am all ears. I really listen to suggestions. I am hoping you guys have some insight.  

Well, sir, I really don't know that much about the candy/mint boxes side of the business, but I would assume there wouldn't be that much difference In that and what I do.  Having said that, if I were you, I wouldn't put a restriction on the types of businesses I approach.  The way I approach it is if a business has a door on it, I'm going in.  I learned the hard way to never prejudge any type of business.  You never know which ones will be good and which ones will be bad.  That's one of the great advantages of this type of business compared to full line.  It doesn't take but a few seconds to pull a box out if it is a bad location, compared to having to move a machine out. 

And my main advice to you, sir, is persistence is the name of the game.  You definitely have to have thick skin to do this business, because it can get frustrating, but if you stick with it, and keep pulling and placing, you will eventually find plenty of locations that will be money makers for you. 

Just another 2 cents, I never leave a card.  It just doesn't work.  I have my business cards taped on my boxes, and when they ask me to leave a card, I explain that I keep my cards on my boxes because we like to leave the boxes so the decision maker can at least see the box and see what they will be getting instead of whoever I am talking to trying to explain it to them.  And that works about 90 percent of the time and about 75 percent of the time I do not get calls to come pick up the box.  Hope this helps.  Let me know if I can help in any way.

 

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Thank you Rodney and Brian for the replies. I really had to chuckle. Seattle is a BAD example. I was there inbjune. The locals call it Freeatle. Spme of the highest welfare and homelessness in the country. 

I was told by several locals - homeless come by the hundreds every month because of so many free social servicrs. I suspect in Seattle people would assume the candy is free- lol.  

Again i thank everyone who took the time to answer. Any more ideas i listen! 

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