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Looking for info on Keypad repair

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I'm looking for info on how to reflash the firmware, and whatever else it takes to get a locked up keypad such as the Hantle/Tranax/Genmega keypads and the Hyosung Keypads. I don't know if the newer ones that have "maintenance mode" are any different, but I have many of the B1, B2, 5000k and 6000k models in the field, which pretty regularly, one will stop working and I must spend $150 and have 2-3 weeks of downtime while it gets repaired. Are they not just replacing the battery and then reflashing the firmware? Surely I can do this myself? I'm even willing to pay good money for the equipment or software if required.

 

I've been servicing and loading ATMs for 7 years now. Getting very frustrated with all the shady repair companies. I call them shady because they charge an arm and a leg for simple repairs and fixes, and guard that simplicity. Some examples are loading software onto mainboards, replacing batteries, password resets, etc. Things that can be done in minutes, yet they charge $100 - $200 for these services. Now, I already know how to load software updates on all the modern machines, I can reset passwords on most keypads and mainboards, pretty much anything that I once was told how to do, I can do it. I'm tech savvy and very DIY when possible.

 

Now with the keypads, there are people who you can mail these to their apartment address, they will fix it, charge $130. I know it's not a high tech fix. I just need the resources or instructions to do it myself. I've spent probably $3000 in the past few years getting these things repaired. I feel I'm being scammed for my ignorance, but I'm trying to learn better.

 

Can anyone help?

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As far as Hyosung Pin Pads go, only Hyosung is suppose to inject them.  ATM Equipment will do it (they somehow figured it out).  Most other repair companies will take them in and send them to Hyosung.

Try the basic flash first

Turn off ATM

On the back of the pin pad, turn the 1st DIP switch on

Turn on the ATM, Turn off ATM, turn dip switch off and turn ATM back on.

 

Todd

 

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Shake-  ever figure out how to flash?  I read your post and you and I are on the exact same page!  Just wondering if you came up with a fix.  Changing the battery out is a no-brainer, but not sure about flashing the EPP.  I'm only looking at the Hyosung 6000K pad.  Any help would be appreciated!

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Blue Plate is correct that ATM Equipment does repair these but when I used them before I realized that they were loading the 5000k firmware onto the PCI 1.0 6000k keypad which makes the keypad non PCI  compliant as even the manufacturer has stopped repairing the 5000k keypads. ATM equipment  is actually removing the processor of the 6000k you send in and putting in a 5000k processor basically downgrading the keypads so they can load the program they have. If you don't believe me go and check the version of a 6000k keypad they have repaired, instead of 08.00.00 it will show 03.02.01. I don't know why anyone sends them in to them especially for the price they charge. The manufacturer will refuse to work on the keypads sent in to them that have been repaired by ATM Equipment. I had to send mine to another company to get them put back to the correct version with the correct processor, and they still charged less than ATM Equipment for fixing ATM equipment's HUGE lie. I can't believe they haven't been sued yet, I know I have lost probably $5k in repairs because of them. It makes me furious! I'll attach a picture as proof of the chip being replaced with a 5000k chip.

IMG_20181130_11.jpg

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Hey yunsun-  thanks for sharing your scam by ATM Equipment.  That's messed up!  I've contacted them on numerous occasions regarding tech questions and they have always been more than helpful.  It's a shame to see that they would stoop to this level on the repair end!  I contacted them to see if I could purchase equipment/ knowledge to fix these myself like shake, but they said no, and pointed me to their repair department.  Glad I saw your post first as I probably would have sent my EPPs to them!  Anyway, you mention that you found someone else to send these 6000k EPPs to for repair.  Were you pleased with their work?  Would you mind sharing who you sent them to?  I found a guy on Ebay, who has a regular website (atmrepairservices.com) that claims to do a full repair for $129.99 each.  It sounds like the guy shake mentions in the OP.  I like the idea of helping out the small businessman, but I just want to make sure that they're done right and not just some shoddy patch job like you experienced.  And again, if this guy can do it, there's gotta be a way for us to get the equipment to do this ourselves!  But for now, I'll settle for someone reputable.  Thanks in advance for any info yunsun!

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Yes, it is strange that a large company like them with large ties to the industry would knowingly take all of the keypads they touch out of PCI compliance. And the company you mentioned, ATM Repair Services, is the company I use now, they have an office in Las Vegas and Los Angeles. I asked if they could fix what ATM Equipment had done to my keypad and they said they could but would charge a little more as they would have to replace the processor that ATM Equipment had put in which was the 5000k processor, it was still cheaper than what ATM equipment charges though. They get them done pretty quick and I haven't had a problem with them so far, I will still use them in the future so hopefully that will help your decision.

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Thanks for the reply and recommendation yunsun.  I guess if doing this myself isn't possible, ATM Repair Services is the best option.  I was a little leery about a 3rd party doing these, but your experience with them puts me somewhat at ease.  If you ever figure out how to do this ourselves, please let me know!  Thanks again!  

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Has anyone here been contacted about a class action against atm equipment for their fraudulent keypad repairs? I have heard rumors from some people that a lawyer is looking for participants and I would like to get in on it because of the amount of keypads they have done for me but cannot find a website or anything. Yunsun or Bailer, have you heard anything or been contacted?

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Shad, no I haven’t been contacted; I never ended up using ATMEquipment for repairs. I haven’t heard anything about the lawsuit, but I’ll keep my ears open and report back here if I do. Best of luck to you with it!

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I AM LIVID! I had my keypads repaired through a company called Everything ATM, I found out that they are doing the SAME EXACT repair as ATM equipment because of this forum. I called them and they admitted over the phone they do not have the correct 6000k software and just put the old stuff on. I was told I need to talk to the owner after they hung up on me a few times then I called back for the owner a few days later and I still can't talk to him but instead his gate keeper answers and gets frustrated at me for the way THEY repaired my keypads. I have had over 50 repaired through them and now I have to send them in for repair again just to put them back into compliance costing me over $8,000 in just repairs. Thanks for the recommendation for ATM repair services to get them compliant again. I guess I will eat the cost to send technicians out to the ATMS. If any of you want to add Everything ATM to that class action lawsuit please let me know, I will gladly join! I put some pics up of their repair as well, the program they have is 03.02.01 which is not 6000k like yunsun had pointed out before, I bet they just stole the idea from ATM equipment and decided to screw everyone over!

IMG_20190425_104824.jpg

IMG_20190426_082420.jpg

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Hey, guys, I would like to explain what PCI compliance is a bit.  PCI compliance is a bunch of guidelines that help protect your business. You should read up on all the guidelines on this website. https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/

The guidelines state things like you must have two technicians enter the separate master keys, then you have to destroy the master keys. 

There are many other guidelines you have to follow to be PCI compliant. These guidelines apply to all parts and aspects of your ATM. I highly suggest that you all read up on what PCI compliance is so that you understand what is all required to be PCI compliant. 

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Pro -

Do you use dual key holders?

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I found this on the website from ATM Equipment as an excuse apparently to why they do what they do. The fact that they say they do everything possible to maintain PCI compliance is not true as they downgrade every keypad they get in.  Their Description says they will leave the software the same if it doesn't need a change which doesn't make sense because they let everyone know a little while back they do not repair 5000k keypads anymore.  There is never a time that they wont change the firmware as they only repair 6000k keypads and they only have the 5000k software. 

Saying that the keypad requires an earlier processor and firmware is also a lie, there is no reason to downgrade a keypad to make them work as we have seen where ATM Repair Services can actually put them back to a 6000k after ATM Equipment downgraded them. 

As far as PCI compliance goes, sooner or later we will be required to run triple des and the 5000k keypad wont fit the keys from what I understand and processors  require PCI 1.0 or newer which 5000k is not at all.

That is interesting about the lawsuit, if any of you hear anything or have a website address, please post it here.

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Hyosung owns the firmware, they are the only ones that can inject it into the keypad.  Only send the keypads to them.  I send them to Burton Tech, they in turn send them into Hyosung.  Burton assists in moving the process along, Hyosung moves too slow otherwise.

 

 

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yunsun that is the worst excuse/back peddling I have ever read, never has there been a NEED to downgrade a keypad, how stupid do they think we are? Hyosung does not care who programs these, they would have gone after ATM Equipment years ago if they did. I guess it all comes down to who is doing them right, fast, and for a reasonable price.

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I have a couple questions relating to this topic with keypads and hoping someone here can help me with. I have small business that started 5 years ago and only have about 10 ATMs in service, so my cost to repair parts makes a significant hit to my revenue. I recently acquired 3 ATMs from businesses that were closing down:

Hyosung NH-2600 (Working fine)

Hyosung MX2600SE (Working Fine)

Hyosung 1800SE (Needs Keypad Fixed/Replaced)

From what I have learned, the 1800SE needs new keypad because the battery has gone dead and it has lost its firmware. The business I acquired it from had it in a back room for couple years unplugged and hence probably the main reason the keypad battery died.

The other two ATMs (NH-2600 & MX2600SE) are sitting in my garage, unplugged waiting for me to find a location to place them. My question is, if these stay unplugged am I risking the keypad on those to go bad too? Are they any different then the 1800SE? I really dont want to keep 2 ATMs on in my garage all the time.

Thanks up front for any help.

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We've never really got a straight answer from anyone.  My tech has done tests on keypads and there seems to be a trickle of discharge while sitting.  Which makes sense, because the keypad has to hold the master keys while unplugged.  

The ATM as a whole, uses little power, most of the power is when the dispenser kicks in.  We built a storage area for pin pads that are not in ATMs, it's basically a power supply that supplies power to the pin pad.  

But . yes, I would keep the ATM plugged in.

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Thank you for the feedback.

I did get the ATMs plugged in so that the keypads don't loose their charge, but it does look silly in my garage at night. Free night lights I guess.

Having a charging station is interesting and maybe that's something I should do by running power to each keypad specifically while its still mounted in the ATM. I am and mechanical engineer and know about electronics somewhat. I guess if I knew the voltage supplied to the keypad and bought some connectors, I could probably find a power supply to do that?

Ultimately I need to find a business to put these in and not worry about it.

Side Question: Are there any more forums out there I can refer to for knowledge and info that may be helpful for me? I have been doing this for 5 years, but all self taught and always welcome anyway to learn more.

Thx!

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Hello,

I get we are all frustrated over keypad repairs but there are very many reasons as to why none of us have access to the firmware and the injection process - and as much as I would like that to change it may not be possible as the process is not as easy as some of you believe it to be. 

Before I get to that lets take a look at the keypads.

Hyosung 5000K/R - firmware starting with V3.xx.xx will not be able to accept TDES keys. Currently only one company can convert these 5000K keypads to true 6000K V8.xx.xx (ATMRepairServices). They are fully functional and can accept TDES keys and is a true repair as they use the Dallas 5250 or similar variant of chip. 

Hyosung 6000K - firmware V8.xx.xx - it's important to note that not all V8 firmwares are the same. For example a dark grey keypad from a 1800POS/CE/SE runs a specific version of V8 that if the keypad is used in a 1500 minibank - then it will not work (won't be allowed to enter the keys and will not respond) - although any minibank 6000K gold keypad will work in any 1800 with any V8 firmware. Only a few companies can inject the 6000K - and Hyosung. As far as I know about 3-5 people can do this with a majority of them being ex Hyosung engineers or companies who have paid off specific people to get the ability to inject. Believe me when I say the process is not as easy as you think - I would rather pay 100 bucks for a keypad repair then deal with the security features of some of these chips....the chips alone are pricey as well. 

Hyosung 8000R - the newest style keypads once the battery dies will need full replacement. As far as I am aware Hyosung ONLY holds the firmware to these and NOBODY else. They will refuse to repair - unless it's a specific circumstance. 

All of these keypads will last longer when plugged in - they do use a small charge to store the master keys when unplugged hence reducing the shelf life. This is confirmed 100 percent.

Now the company who converts the 5000K to 6000K properly also upgrades the ram chips as well. This is due to in the United States DCC transactions are seperate and they need to be able to able to process two transactions at once. In Canada DCC transactions are sent together as one transaction. 

Chances are nobody will ever get the 8000 firmware aside from maybe one person that I can think of personally. Also there are specific rules regarding PCI compliance that have to be followed when injecting firmware not just keys, etc. 

 

Now onto Triton

 

T5/T7/T9 firmware Triton does - keypads can be reset and wiped as well by what's called a in field reset tool. This tool costs the ATM company dearly - as it requires a fee for every keypad reset as well as being a sole distributor of Triton ATMs and TRUSTED supplier ( were talking massive ATM company's only). Your only option if you are small (500 or less ATMs) is to send to Triton direct. 

 

As for hantle/genmega 

They use a variant of the Dalla chip as well. 

 

B1/B2 - hantle and a few others can repair these once the battery dies with a 50 percent success rate as the chip is encased in a tar like substance. I have had the injection tool - and it's something you probably will never be able to get as it is not even in English. It loads the firmware via a JTAG connector. This tool is good for upgrading firmware and resetting the keypad but again if you have to overcome replacing this Dallas 80+ pin security chip to be PCi complaint,etc it's better off to send it to hantle/genmega/one of these repair companies. The problem lies when the battery dies it wipes the firmware - then the process to take apart the keypad alone can completely destroy the keypad. If you manage to get past that then you have to deal with replacing the chip and all of its security features. Goto the Dallas semiconductor website and read up on the Dallas 5250 ...these types of chips and firmwares are hard to understand even with extensive engineering and programming knowledge. 

 

I have spent countless hours trying to figure this out - i am beyond educated in programming and electrical designs. You are better off having a few spare keypads around the warehouse and replace as they die so you don't have a 2-3 week downtown. I am sure if someone showed me the process on a 6000k I could do it - but honest is it worth it? The cost of the chip, the time, labour, etc would be in the hundreds of dollars if you do a few keypads a year. This is only worth it if you are a repair company or have thousands of ATMs running and at that point let's face it you don't give a damn the cost of a repair since you are probably doing fairly well in this industry. 

I have been lucky to get some of the tools that most people don't have when it comes to ATMs but one thing I'm not really interested in touching anymore is the keypad itself. It's just not worth it. 

 

 

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Who do you send Hantle / Genmega keypads to @ that $130 price and what kind of luck do you have with them?   Jay

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The company is ATM Repair Services.  Their website is atmrepairservices.com  I haven't sent any Hantle/Genmega keypads into them yet, but I just had 4 Hyosung 6000k pinpads repaired by them.  Turnaround was right around the 10 day mark that they claim.  No complaints, as they all work great.  Hope this helps..good luck!

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Hello everyone.. was wondering if anyone can educate me a bit.. I was told the 1800SE can only be upgraded with a EMV card reader not the CE.. but then I read somewhere that they make a reader for the CE as well.. is this true? Can the hyosung 1800 CE be upgraded to EMV as well?  Thank you

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Yep..just upgraded an 1800CE last week with a new EMV reader. They are most definitely upgradable. Shop around, there are plenty of upgrade kits out there for a 1800CE. Good luck to ya!

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