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VAVending

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With the cost of a single, wood grain box (separators and coin boxes included) averaging $8 from places like Sheridan, has anyone considered making their own boxes?

I know it wouldn’t be sustainable for long term but I’m talking about to start out, say, my first 25 boxes. It seems buying a decent sheet of plywood for $15 and a box of cheap nails could net about 6 boxes. Then once the business has built more of its own capital I could go to bulk ordering from Sheridan.

I’ve never even seen an honor box in person so I have no idea of durability or anything like that. But I’d love input from those who know. Thoughts?

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Did some figuring:

Cost of ply would be: $15.63 at Lowe’s

Cost of screws would be: $11.28 for a 5 lb box (enough to cover at least 25 honor boxes) of sinker or roofing style nails.

The ply would yield 4 honor boxes in the style I’m envisioning.

The total cost of each box (including estimated nails used) would be: $4.35

This assumes that you already posses a circular saw at the minimum, and doesn’t factor in man hours for construction.

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I plan to make a prototype early next week so I can better see how it will hold up strength-wise. I may need to include wood glue in total costs, but hesitate to do so as that would basically double man hours on construction. (This has been my experience, anyway.)

I also may need to change the way I’m thinking the coin box will attach, but hopefully not.

Pictures of the build will be forth coming as I have them.

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11 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

You will spend more in time and materials (don't forget about finishing it) than it would cost for printed cardboard boxes that will hold up pretty well.

True I will spend more time. But I have time, that’s why I’m starting honor boxes.

Materials? Perhaps. My main thought with this is that it will enable me to start with just 4 boxes at less cash investment than with Sheridan.

I’m not sure how much finishing it will need, but building a prototype will give me an idea. I’m certainly not opposed to selling snacks from a “natural” wooden box.

In the end you’re right, when you’re placing 5 boxes a week it’s not worth the effort to make your own. I’m just looking at this as a way to cut startup costs even more. (I know the costs are already low, but if you don’t count pennies what’s the point of vending?)

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http://www.cameronpackaging.com/snackboxes.html 

Only $2.78 ea if you buy in multiples of 10 + shipping.  They are holding up great for me after about a year, I just reinforced them with tape when I assembled them.  They are about 1/2 the size of the woodgrain boxes but I fit 10 LSS chips, 10 other stuff in it. I always left out the divider in the middle.

 

I made some prototypes out of 1/2 in plywood (basically copies of the cameron boxes just out of wood.  After painting/finishing, hinges, hasp and lock I had about $10 invested and they weighed more empty than the cardboard boxes filled with product.  I made 3; 1 black paint, 1 white paint and 1 clear polyurethane and honestly, I thought they looked tacky next to the cardboard boxes.  They ended up in the garbage and I just stuck to the cardboard ones.

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17 minutes ago, Mehehe said:

http://www.cameronpackaging.com/snackboxes.html 

Only $2.78 ea if you buy in multiples of 10 + shipping.  They are holding up great for me after about a year, I just reinforced them with tape when I assembled them.  They are about 1/2 the size of the woodgrain boxes but I fit 10 LSS chips, 10 other stuff in it. I always left out the divider in the middle.

 

I made some prototypes out of 1/2 in plywood (basically copies of the cameron boxes just out of wood.  After painting/finishing, hinges, hasp and lock I had about $10 invested and they weighed more empty than the cardboard boxes filled with product.  I made 3; 1 black paint, 1 white paint and 1 clear polyurethane and honestly, I thought they looked tacky next to the cardboard boxes.  They ended up in the garbage and I just stuck to the cardboard ones.

I did check the Cameron boxes. With shipping for 10 boxes it comes out to about $4.48 per. To me they looked a little small, but that’s a personal opinion.

Good to know about your experiences. I plan to use 3/8” ply and skip the locks/hardware and paint. I’m just going to secure the coin box with a couple of screws from the sides. You’ll see what I mean when I post pictures.

If the first doesn’t turn out I’ll bite the bullet and buy the Sheridan boxes.

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I use both the wood grain boxes (I do not get them from Sheridan) and I also use the smaller boxes from Cameron.  I have 340 locations.  Approximately  170 of the smaller ones, the rest are the wood grain.  My wood grain boxes hold up pretty well, depending on the location they are placed in.  I have some in some pretty nasty auto body places and tire places so I use my older and "uglier" boxes for these places once I start servicing them.  I always make sure to use new ones when I am out getting new locations.  

Building your own boxes may work in the beginning, but if you are planning on doing this full time, there is no way you will have the time to do this.  Just my opinion.  

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On 7/27/2018 at 8:08 PM, bhumphrey829 said:

I use both the wood grain boxes (I do not get them from Sheridan) and I also use the smaller boxes from Cameron.  I have 340 locations.  Approximately  170 of the smaller ones, the rest are the wood grain.  My wood grain boxes hold up pretty well, depending on the location they are placed in.  I have some in some pretty nasty auto body places and tire places so I use my older and "uglier" boxes for these places once I start servicing them.  I always make sure to use new ones when I am out getting new locations.  

Building your own boxes may work in the beginning, but if you are planning on doing this full time, there is no way you will have the time to do this.  Just my opinion.  

Thanks for chiming in, I was really hoping you would, as your thread is an inspiration.

I definitely get that building my own won’t be sustainable. In the end I may only wind up making 4, but we’ll see. I’d think no more than 12. Beyond that I’ll likely buy boxes. My starting capital is limited which is why I had this idea in the first place.

Do you find the necessity is there for smaller boxes? Of the 170 with small boxes do you feel that large boxes would be a detriment? The reason I’m asking is because (in my experience) uniformity tends to make things easier, and ordering in quantity tends to result in (sometimes significant) price breaks. So if I was sourcing all my boxes from one place I’d potentially save money.

Thinking through the eventualities, if you could go back and do it all again would you still do large and small combined, or just one size? Eager to hear you thoughts.

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On 7/27/2018 at 8:10 PM, bhumphrey829 said:

By the way, I put 20 items in the smaller Cameron boxes and 40 items in my wood grain boxes.

You mentioned you don’t buy from Sheridan, may I ask your supplier?

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On 7/27/2018 at 12:15 PM, VAVending said:

With the cost of a single, wood grain box (separators and coin boxes included) averaging $8 from places like Sheridan, has anyone considered making their own boxes?

I know it wouldn’t be sustainable for long term but I’m talking about to start out, say, my first 25 boxes. It seems buying a decent sheet of plywood for $15 and a box of cheap nails could net about 6 boxes. Then once the business has built more of its own capital I could go to bulk ordering from Sheridan.

I’ve never even seen an honor box in person so I have no idea of durability or anything like that. But I’d love input from those who know. Thoughts?

I've been in the honor snack business for 25 years, and trust me, this would be a bad idea.  Besides the amount of time building them, plywood boxes will weigh WAY TOO MUCH for the purpose of servicing your accounts.  Not to mention you risk scratching the counters of your customers and would be extremely awkward to handle.  Take my advise:  purchase a bundle of boxes from a supplier like Sheridan or Cameron.  3-4 boxes or even 12 boxes is a waste of time.  Purchase at least 25 (I personally would start with 50).  Remember, you not only need a box for the location, but also one to swap at the locations when you service them.  If you are going to run an honor snack business, 3-4 accounts would be a complete waste of time.  Purchasing 25-50 boxes gives you a decent starting point, and will encourage you to grow.  It is like any other business:  either DO IT or DON'T.  Don't settle for "So-So".   Just my 2 cents!  :) 

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14 hours ago, VAVending said:

Thanks for chiming in, I was really hoping you would, as your thread is an inspiration.

I definitely get that building my own won’t be sustainable. In the end I may only wind up making 4, but we’ll see. I’d think no more than 12. Beyond that I’ll likely buy boxes. My starting capital is limited which is why I had this idea in the first place.

Do you find the necessity is there for smaller boxes? Of the 170 with small boxes do you feel that large boxes would be a detriment? The reason I’m asking is because (in my experience) uniformity tends to make things easier, and ordering in quantity tends to result in (sometimes significant) price breaks. So if I was sourcing all my boxes from one place I’d potentially save money.

Thinking through the eventualities, if you could go back and do it all again would you still do large and small combined, or just one size? Eager to hear you thoughts.

To be honest I would probably go with all big boxes if I had it all to do again, but for me it works out good only because I have quite a few places that are just too small for the big boxes and the small boxes are perfect for these places.  Having said that, the big boxes would work, however, I would be getting a lot more returns.  

If you are asking my opinion on what you should do, I would say go with the big boxes only and keep it simple.

Hope this helps.  If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.  I love to see people venture out into the honor box world, and I have had sooooo much help from guys on here, I just want to pay it forward.

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6 hours ago, flintflash said:

I've been in the honor snack business for 25 years, and trust me, this would be a bad idea.  Besides the amount of time building them, plywood boxes will weigh WAY TOO MUCH for the purpose of servicing your accounts.  Not to mention you risk scratching the counters of your customers and would be extremely awkward to handle.  Take my advise:  purchase a bundle of boxes from a supplier like Sheridan or Cameron.  3-4 boxes or even 12 boxes is a waste of time.  Purchase at least 25 (I personally would start with 50).  Remember, you not only need a box for the location, but also one to swap at the locations when you service them.  If you are going to run an honor snack business, 3-4 accounts would be a complete waste of time.  Purchasing 25-50 boxes gives you a decent starting point, and will encourage you to grow.  It is like any other business:  either DO IT or DON'T.  Don't settle for "So-So".   Just my 2 cents!  :) 

I find I agree with you basically completely. For the shipping alone I can’t justify buying only 25 boxes and accessories. And I’m definitely in the “DO IT” category.

My issue is that starting out I have a budget of about $150 for this (my circumstances are quite unique) and it’d take more than that to buy even 25. So I’m looking for something that can get more seed money coming in without me having to divert funds from necessary areas or take out a very small loan, which is something I’ve told myself I’ll never do for business. Thus the idea of building my own.

At this point I already have the supplies so I’m going to do it just for the experience and novelty. But as previously stated I can’t see myself doing more than 12 (if even that). I just want enough to get a few accounts started and build the seed money needed for an order of 50.

Thanks so much for chiming in!

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4 hours ago, bhumphrey829 said:

To be honest I would probably go with all big boxes if I had it all to do again, but for me it works out good only because I have quite a few places that are just too small for the big boxes and the small boxes are perfect for these places.  Having said that, the big boxes would work, however, I would be getting a lot more returns.  

If you are asking my opinion on what you should do, I would say go with the big boxes only and keep it simple.

Hope this helps.  If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.  I love to see people venture out into the honor box world, and I have had sooooo much help from guys on here, I just want to pay it forward.

I really appreciate it, it confirms what I had suspected. When I order, it’ll probably be 50 wood grain boxes from vending-business-information.com

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32 minutes ago, VAVending said:

My issue is that starting out I have a budget of about $150 for this

Its going to be tough for you to get a variety of product with that much starting, especially if you go with larger boxes that easily holds 40 items.  A box of chocolate bars $20 (5 different items), a case of LSS chips $12.50 (6 different), Nabisco Cookies variety $9.00 (3 different)...  3 cases $41.50 and a variety of 14 different items... 

 

1. With your budget are you going to be able to provide a "quality" large box to your locations? 

2. Would starting with a smaller box be a better presentation and more feasible with your budget?

3. Should you start with almost all chips/cookies for better variety and keeping your costs down?  Everyone loves chocolate but with your budget can you actually afford that in your boxes, right now?

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2 hours ago, Mehehe said:

Its going to be tough for you to get a variety of product with that much starting, especially if you go with larger boxes that easily holds 40 items.  A box of chocolate bars $20 (5 different items), a case of LSS chips $12.50 (6 different), Nabisco Cookies variety $9.00 (3 different)...  3 cases $41.50 and a variety of 14 different items... 

 

1. With your budget are you going to be able to provide a "quality" large box to your locations? 

2. Would starting with a smaller box be a better presentation and more feasible with your budget?

3. Should you start with almost all chips/cookies for better variety and keeping your costs down?  Everyone loves chocolate but with your budget can you actually afford that in your boxes, right now?

Very good point. Honestly at this point I can probably only afford to stock a single box, but I had hoped I could at least cover that. I had also hoped to have enough product for my first switch out. In the end if I just don’t have enough cash I will work it out with the wife, but buying a box of chips or candy bars is much easier to swallow than buying 25 honor boxes. (No pun intended.)

I had heard quotes in a couple places that it cost approx. $40 to stock a box, so I had been going by that. But I guess that number is probably assuming you purchase more than you put in the box in order to get the quantity discounts that Sam’s offers. I don’t know.

I need to take a look at an actual shopping list so that I have a realistic idea. Kinda feel silly I haven’t done that yet... (Insert sheepish grin here.)

Thanks for pointing that out, I’ll hit Sam’s online tonight and start working out an actual product budget.

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16 hours ago, VAVending said:

I find I agree with you basically completely. For the shipping alone I can’t justify buying only 25 boxes and accessories. And I’m definitely in the “DO IT” category.

My issue is that starting out I have a budget of about $150 for this (my circumstances are quite unique) and it’d take more than that to buy even 25. So I’m looking for something that can get more seed money coming in without me having to divert funds from necessary areas or take out a very small loan, which is something I’ve told myself I’ll never do for business. Thus the idea of building my own.

At this point I already have the supplies so I’m going to do it just for the experience and novelty. But as previously stated I can’t see myself doing more than 12 (if even that). I just want enough to get a few accounts started and build the seed money needed for an order of 50.

Thanks so much for chiming in!

Why don't you hold off and save your money until you can really make a run at this endeavor? Everyone here has made it clear that plywood boxes are not the way to go so why even try it? Just because you have the materials available does not make it a prudent decision. It will be a real challenge to avoid stales with so few locations not to mention you can barely afford to adequately stock the boxes in the first place. Take into consideration that product theft from the locations could quickly put you in a bad spot with such limited operating funds. I understand the idea of starting small but like the old saying goes "It takes money to make money". If you are definitely in the "DO IT" category as you say you are then save up some money, heed the advice these guys are giving you and do it right the first time.

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49 minutes ago, gumball guy said:

Why don't you hold off and save your money until you can really make a run at this endeavor? Everyone here has made it clear that plywood boxes are not the way to go so why even try it? Just because you have the materials available does not make it a prudent decision. It will be a real challenge to avoid stales with so few locations not to mention you can barely afford to adequately stock the boxes in the first place. Take into consideration that product theft from the locations could quickly put you in a bad spot with such limited operating funds. I understand the idea of starting small but like the old saying goes "It takes money to make money". If you are definitely in the "DO IT" category as you say you are then save up some money, heed the advice these guys are giving you and do it right the first time.

I appreciate what you’re saying. From my understanding I haven’t disregarded anyone’s advice. There is a balance to listening to input without letting every idea you have get swept aside by the first person who doesn’t think it will work.

That said I have been listening and have adjusted my plans accordingly. The main response I seemed to be receiving was that it wouldn’t be tenible in the long run. I agree completely and don’t intend to use ply long term.

As far as my financial situation, please trust that I know my circumstances and am doing what I must at this point. When I say things are complicated I really really mean Complicated. I like the idea of waiting until I can invest more, but that just won’t work for me currently.

I will be ordering cardboard boxes, and those will be the small variety from Cameron. I had a lovely conversation with Mehehe last night which helped bring things down to earth and show me that as things currently stand I don’t really have many options. I am optimistic that my current plan will work.

I have built a copy of the Cameron box and will be placing it and a twin tomorrow afternoon, I’ll be filling it with a selection of supplies I’ll be picking up from Sams tomorrow morning. With my leftover money I will have enough to place the order for the cardboard boxes. When those arrive I will begin to place them weekly and grow my route. I will likely retire the ply boxes at that point. They will hopefully have served their purpose and gotten me going.

I hope I’ve explained myself well. I can’t even begin to voice how much I appreciate the accumulated experience and knowledge here. I’m distressed by the idea that anyone would feel I was brushing advice aside. I was simply trying to have a dialogue and fit the advice to my circumstances.

Thank you so much to everyone who has chimed in thus far. You’re my heroes!

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As promised, photos of the prototype. Again, I know this is far from ideal but I believe it fills the niche that I need it to currently.

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Change is collected by unscrewing the sides and removing the money box from the tray.

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10 minutes ago, VAVending said:

As promised, photos of the prototype. Again, I know this is far from ideal but I believe it fills the niche that I need it to currently.

4GrjCQPYy5DN78MGj9bT1NgMCU7miyoGUKkk5VRy

Change is collected by unscrewing the sides and removing the money box from the tray.

E1mqP_70EAZkUIHPzkvwaOc0EchaNvoIqX0BFdnE

A couple of things here.  First of all, you will quickly find out that unscrewing to get the money out is going to get old really quick.  I understand what you are saying as far this only temporary, but if I were you  I would either order 25 small boxes from Cameron or take the other advice on here and wait until you have the money to get 25 big boxes.  As per our discussion earlier, it will be easier for you to go with 1 size box.  However, I definitely would not make the small boxes my box of choice.  If have decided to go with one size it definitely needs to be the larger ones because you will find as you go along that some locations will require the large boxes.  I have several locations that have 3 of the large boxes in there.  There is no way the small boxes would work and you will find those locations also.  

The second thing is, are you sure you want to charge $1.00?  Eventually you will have to move up to $1.25.  It's a lot easier to start off at that price point instead of raising the price down the road.  I found this out the hard way, as I started out at $1.00 and had to raise my price to $1.25.  People will pay $1.25.

The next thing you will have to worry about is your stales, especially in the beginning because if you only have a couple of boxes to work with, you will be throwing out a lot of stale products, especially chips and pastries which do not have that long of shelf life.

Not trying to rain on your parade, because this business will work for you, but it is very important to start off in the right direction.  

Hope this helps.

 

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8 minutes ago, bhumphrey829 said:

A couple of things here.  First of all, you will quickly find out that unscrewing to get the money out is going to get old really quick.  I understand what you are saying as far this only temporary, but if I were you  I would either order 25 small boxes from Cameron or take the other advice on here and wait until you have the money to get 25 big boxes.  As per our discussion earlier, it will be easier for you to go with 1 size box.  However, I definitely would not make the small boxes my box of choice.  If have decided to go with one size it definitely needs to be the larger ones because you will find as you go along that some locations will require the large boxes.  I have several locations that have 3 of the large boxes in there.  There is no way the small boxes would work and you will find those locations also.  

The second thing is, are you sure you want to charge $1.00?  Eventually you will have to move up to $1.25.  It's a lot easier to start off at that price point instead of raising the price down the road.  I found this out the hard way, as I started out at $1.00 and had to raise my price to $1.25.  People will pay $1.25.

The next thing you will have to worry about is your stales, especially in the beginning because if you only have a couple of boxes to work with, you will be throwing out a lot of stale products, especially chips and pastries which do not have that long of shelf life.

Not trying to rain on your parade, because this business will work for you, but it is very important to start off in the right direction.  

Hope this helps.

 

One more thing I forgot to bring up, and this is only my boxes.  Other's on here may vary, but it costs me about $8.00 to stock the small box and about $22.00 to fill 40 items in my large boxes.

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1 minute ago, bhumphrey829 said:

A couple of things here.  First of all, you will quickly find out that unscrewing to get the money out is going to get old really quick.  I understand what you are saying as far this only temporary, but if I were you  I would either order 25 small boxes from Cameron or take the other advice on here and wait until you have the money to get 25 big boxes.  As per our discussion earlier, it will be easier for you to go with 1 size box.  However, I definitely would not make the small boxes my box of choice.  If have decided to go with one size it definitely needs to be the larger ones because you will find as you go along that some locations will require the large boxes.  I have several locations that have 3 of the large boxes in there.  There is no way the small boxes would work and you will find those locations also.  

The second thing is, are you sure you want to charge $1.00?  Eventually you will have to move up to $1.25.  It's a lot easier to start off at that price point instead of raising the price down the road.  I found this out the hard way, as I started out at $1.00 and had to raise my price to $1.25.  People will pay $1.25.

The next thing you will have to worry about is your stales, especially in the beginning because if you only have a couple of boxes to work with, you will be throwing out a lot of stale products, especially chips and pastries which do not have that long of shelf life.

Not trying to rain on your parade, because this business will work for you, but it is very important to start off in the right direction.  

Hope this helps.

 

Agreed on the screws, it was the simplest mechanism I could come up with without purchasing something more.

The missing link between our previous conversation and now is the chat I had with Mehehe.

He pointed out that with a 40 item box I would have to start with more product selection in order not to duplicate too many products. With a 20 item box I can start with less kinds of product which will lead to fewer stale products as I get off the ground. In this line of reasoning I feel it’s worth it to mix box sizes; starting with small. If I really want to go uniform one day I can just switch over to large and put the small in storage.

In addition he gave me a list of what products he would begin with at my budget to help reduce stales, and what I can build toward as my cash flow increases. I know it’s probably inevitable that I will wind up with old product starting out, but isn’t that something everyone faces? If all goes to plan I intend to grow quickly and get out of the new route slump.

If you feel the market will bear $1.25 then I will reprint my price labels right now. Thanks for the tip.

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