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Bill Validator


tblake05

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Hello Mr. Angry Chris,  You know, I don't even know which machine it is to be honest.  The sticker on the back corner is not visable any longer.  I can tell you it is rather old and has the slide out coin mech / validator portion.  Its sort of on the list to be updated soon so I don't think I'll want to spend a heck of a lot of money on it.  It is however almost an identical match to another one of our machines which is a USI 3013a.

PS, I must say for someone who has such an angry name, your always right there to help with advice.  Thanks as always!

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1 hour ago, tblake05 said:

Hello Mr. Angry Chris,  You know, I don't even know which machine it is to be honest.  The sticker on the back corner is not visable any longer.  I can tell you it is rather old and has the slide out coin mech / validator portion.  Its sort of on the list to be updated soon so I don't think I'll want to spend a heck of a lot of money on it.  It is however almost an identical match to another one of our machines which is a USI 3013a.

PS, I must say for someone who has such an angry name, your always right there to help with advice.  Thanks as always!

Thanks.  I do want to help people if I can.

The machine could be a 301x but it could also be one of the 2099 or whatever model the previous versions were.  There is usually a sticker on the bottom of the machine I think on the left hand side of the cabinet but yours might not have it.  Regardless, the important thing to figure out is if it has a snackmart 3 board in it (ie. sm3).  If it does, then you should be good to go with the kit.  They usually run about $200 if the validator is included.  If possible, you really want to do it with a 24v mars instead of a 110v simply because you can always use a 24v mars for an MDB machine later on if you want (with the right harness).  You can't do that with a 110v mars.

The upside to the conversion is that you have yourself a nice mars validator in there which should work noticeably better than the MAKA and last much longer too.  The downside is that the conversion itself is a little clumsy.  You need a small lower bracket which gives the validator mask a place to "rest" just above the display.  You also have to move one of the MAKA brackets down and screw it back down as it becomes the new upper bracket.  The thing is that you need to put the lower bracket in first, kind of mount the validator, and slide the upper bracket so that it's lined up for a screw to hold the upper part of the snack mask.  If you have never done it, it can be frustrating to get it all lined up.  To make matters worse, if you didn't set the switches correctly before you mounted it, you might have to take it back out and set the switches to the right settings lol!!  And it's very difficult to screw in a screw on the far side of the mask on the upper bracket.  You can do it, but you really want to come in with longer screws (maybe 3/4 of an inch or so?).  That way, it's much easier to just unscrew the far one without taking it completely out if you have to replace it later.

What I always did was to hook up the validator first, make sure it accepts bills and gives credit properly, then power the machine down (always power down before connecting/disconnecting anything), disconnect the harnesses, and mount the validator.  That way, I KNOW everything is good electronically and I only have to make sure the upper bracket is lined up properly.  Also, I don't remember exactly as it has been a while, but I think you want a bottler mask and not a snack mask on a USI bracket.  Again, it's a frustrating and clumsy setup but once it's done, your MAKA problems go away.

I have used MAKA to mars conversion kits on National machines, but not USI so I don't know if it will work, but here's one for sale: https://www.amazon.com/Dixie-MAKA-Validator-Conversion-Cable/dp/B01EKMIHB2 

What I did was I bought the data harness from Vendors Exchange and then I usually got a 110v harness to go with it. 

VE's site is down right now but I believe the main part you want is VE1709.  If I have the number right, it's the data harness which is the most expensive harness from most sources.  Then you need a 110v mars harness for a USI 301x.  On top of that, you need the lower bracket and one of your existing MAKA brackets should be able to be repurposed for use as the upper bracket.  In addition to the validator, those 4 parts should be all you need.  If I had to guess, I would say the parts will cost you $50 from VE and won't include the validator.

I think the conversion kit combined with a lower bracket and 110v mars validator will be all you need in reality, I just haven't tried it myself.  I bet you can't make it take $5's though but I don't even know if a 301x is capable of that anyway.  I wouldn't spend more than $100 on a refurbished 2501 or 2511 though.  Those should be plentiful as the market has been flooded from people updating machines to MDB.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey guys, I will be heading over there tomorrow to mess with a different machine, but would any of these validators work in the position of the one pictured above?  I acquired them all from the purchase of the business.  I assume they wont due to the voltage differences.

 

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Your right those will not work because of the voltage difference. Vendnet (USI/Wittern) website probably has a contact phone number and could possibly sell you the kit to fit a new style bill acceptor in? They will want the model# and possibly serial#. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

hey Mr AngryChris,

Got myself a rebuilt Mars validator and kit to install it.  Problem is I plugged it in and cannot get it to accept any dollars.  It goes through its power up routine, and then flashes code 2.  I farted around with the switches for about an hour with no luck so I just mounted it and left.  Code 2 according to the back of the validator means "disabled by mech".  Whatever that means.  Can anyone point me into the direction of how to adjust the switches?

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Disabled by VMC/Mech usually means the coin mech is stopping the machine from letting you use the validator.  Either it's low on change, the machine THINKS it's low on change (in which you can use ORSD's method to fix that), or the coin mech (or possibly board) are messed up.

The easiest way (for you) to empty the coin mech is to use the board function to dispense it from the coin mech.  Not only will you make sure the coin mech dispenses properly but you won't have to take the coin mech out and risk getting a coin stuck somewhere it shouldn't get stuck.  So dispense everything and set them in their own piles or put them in separate bags, and then maybe change one single price to $5.00.  Go back into sales mode (the mode where it's usually in) and start feeding change into the top of the coin mech and then make your selections until the coin mech is full.
 

I think there's a good chance that the harness is on upside down though.  Turn off the machine and turn it back on and immediately watch the back of the validator.  If it stays solid red while front of the machine says "exact change only", then it goes back to 2 flashes after the machine says insert money (or whatever it says when it's in sales mode) then the harness may be on backwards, or you can just flip it around and see what happens.  Just don't mount the validator until you've actually gotten it working or else you'll get frustrated dealing with harnesses and switches and all that.

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Also, if that validator is for $1 bills only, you want switches 1, 2, and 4 on.  That is generally regardless of the machine it's for.  Switches 1 and 2 on allow for 4-way bill acceptance (when both on) and switch 4 allows you to accept more bills.  Switch 3 is almost never on in my experience.

As for switches 5 and 6, those are generally for $2 and $5 bill acceptance.  I almost always keep switch 5 off and I usually have switch 6 off if I want to accept $5's.  Switch 7 and 8 I just play around with until it takes bills, but the MEI chart says to use the credit line for a USI 3000, which should be 7 OFF and 8 ON...  In other words, leave switches 1, 2, 4, and 8 ON and leave the rest OFF.

Try putting the top harness on upside down and see what happens.  You have to wait until the machine finishes booting up before you know (when the machine no longer says Exact Change Only, or maybe 10 seconds).  Don't try to flip the bottom harness (power harness).  It should be keyed and you should not be able to flip it.

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Hello and thanks for the info guys.

Machine is indeed a USI Snackmart 3000 series.  I did watch the LED on the validator...  While booting up, it immediately starts flashing code 2.  Never goes solid.

I'm confused when you say "Top Harness".  My harness has one end with a single plug that goes to the validator (at least I believe its only one plug).  The other end has two separate pigtals that connect to the machine.  One is oriented 2x2 and the other is 1x4.  It that makes sense.

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1 hour ago, tblake05 said:

One is oriented 2x2 and the other is 1x4.  It that makes sense.

It likely connects to the maka harness that connects to the board.

The validator is a 2512 or 2502?

If you had a 24v maka in there and you use a conversion harness, you need a 24v mars. 

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16 hours ago, tblake05 said:

Hello and thanks for the info guys.

Machine is indeed a USI Snackmart 3000 series.  I did watch the LED on the validator...  While booting up, it immediately starts flashing code 2.  Never goes solid.

I'm confused when you say "Top Harness".  My harness has one end with a single plug that goes to the validator (at least I believe its only one plug).  The other end has two separate pigtals that connect to the machine.  One is oriented 2x2 and the other is 1x4.  It that makes sense.

Did you depress the door switch after you installed the validator?  With out the switch in, the validator will flash twice.

 

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Team,

Validator is a mars VN2502-U5E 24V and snackmart 3000 series, I set to credit line, accept 1's, not accept 2's or 5's.  Also tried switch high security/high acceptance both ways.

I have tried dumping the coin mech, and entering coin by coin to refill the tubes until the coins drop into the bin.  After all three, the Validator still flashes code 2.  Side note, when putting quarters in, the tube didn't fill completely to the top before the quarters dropped into the bin.  It could have probably held about 5 more to match the level of the dimes and nickels.

I also should note I reset the validator following this pdf, which should at the very least allow me to insert a piece of paper for programming.  However, it still flashes code 2 and will not even accept a piece of paper immediately resetting all switches to off.  Does that seem right?

https://www.icscarwashsystems.com/assets/useruploads/1/docs/Bill Acceptor Reset Procedure.pdf

Could a faulty coin mech cause the validator to flash error 2 consistently?  I suppose I could try and swap the mech out.  Seems odd as the MAKA did accept some 1.00 bills if they were 100% fresh and crisp.

Any other suggestions before I try and exchange the Mars for a different one?

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I'm not sure why it's not working.  I checked a USI 3013 today and it had a conversion harness in it similar to yours but it was setup to use 110v and not 24v.  It should work regardless.  Yes, a faulty coin mech will make the validator not work if it thinks it's low on change but it sounds like you did everything properly.  Changing the coin mech is the easiest thing to do.  Honestly, you should be able to just install a loaded coin mech and the validator should work.  Flashing 2 should go away after about 10 seconds or so upon starting the machine and it should be solid.  The only other possibilities I can think of are a faulty harness, bad bill acceptor, or loose connection.  Your validator has power so we know it's on but something is making it not want to work.  I have never had to do a coin fill on an older USI to my knowledge.  They almost always work with a good coin mech that's full.

Check to make sure both connections to the MAKA harness are connected and no wires are loose, and try changing the coin mech.  If all else fails, you can try to see if that validator hooks up to a different machine to verify that it's working (if you have anything compatible) or exchange the validator but I feel like it's something really simple that we are all overlooking.

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3 hours ago, AngryChris said:

...... I feel like it's something really simple that we are all overlooking.

Right!

I have one other machine with a MARS validator (rest are coinco) but it may take a week or so before I can switch the two around for testing purposes.  I hate messing with a good working machine though just for testing purposes. (especially one that makes 100.00 in sales a week)

Another dumb question Chris, The coin mech in this particular Snackmart uses an extra row of pins on the connector.  I did at one point have a smaller plug coin mech in there with the old MAKA validator and it plugged in and worked fine.  Just didn't fill all the cavities available on the machine side of the connection (if that makes sense)  What are the extra row of connectors for?  Can I use the type of coin mech with less pins in the connector?  Because I'm not sure I have a spare of the one that's currently in there.

I can upload pics if you need them to know what I'm talking about,

Thanks for the info!

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If you are asking why some mechs have 12 pins and others have 15 pins, I don't know the answer to that.  It's well beyond my knowledge.  I suppose it's just a different form of communication via the pins.  I'm guessing that's what you are asking anyway.  As for switching things around, I recommend you don't do that because compatibility becomes confusing (ie. a 15 pin 110 mech might not work with one plug but a 12 pin 110v mech does or visa versa on a machine that looks like it supports up to 15 pins).  I burnt up the board on a Vendo by just switching the coin mech around.  They were the same voltage but still the wrong mech.  At least look at the manual or ask someone who knows before you do that.  Usually, on a USI 3000, a Coinco 9302-L is what you want (24 volt Logic mech and should be 12 pins) or (I think) a mars 6010 but I am not 100% on if that is also a 24 volt mech or not.  I have almost 100% 9302-L's in my USI machines.

Just make sure, if you plan on switching validators, that they are both 24 volt validators because that harness should be for 24 volts as long as that's what you ordered.  I can't see why it wouldn't be because the MAKA connectors should only be compatible with 24v if the existing MAKA was 24v (or 27, or 34, etc..).  Also, make sure you put the switches on the right setting and power off the machine before you disconnect or connect anything.

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The coin mech sockets used by manufacturers are generic in that they can be used in all logic level machines with all logic level coin mechs regardless of what models of coin mech the machine is designed to use.  This means that not all machines use all pins in a socket.  You are worrying about the wrong stuff.  Just look at the label in each machine for the models of coin mechs it supports and don't try any that aren't listed.  Now on some old machines the mechs listed might not be available any longer so you then have to know what models of mechs superceded the old ones, but that won't happen very often.  

All USI machines that are not MDB use the models of mechs that Chris listed, Coinco 9302L or Mars 6010.  Those are equivalent 12 pin 24V logic mechs.  Anything else will be damaged by the machine.  That's why you follow the coin mech list inside each machine. 

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Does anyone know the pinouts of the MAKA bill validator harness?  Like what the wires do?  Curious if there's an enable/disable wire that I can manipulate to just rule out a bad validator.

Also, could I swap a coinco 24V into its place?  Do coinco and mars use the same connections?  I've got about 5 24v coinco validators I could try.

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