Stole my shixt - freaking tweekers

[ABCVending]

Ok, been at this for a while, think I got my first machine back in 2008 or 09

Maybe I've been lucky, but in the last 10 years have not had any thefts or vandalism to any machines.

Don't really have any high risk locations - picked up a apartment location a few years back with two bev machines and I think a tenant there had a key to the machines and was taking money, but he/she was smart and only took about 10-15% of the cash so it took me a while to catch on (and I was lazy about swapping out the locks) - swapped out the locks and problem went away.

Have some places that kids can access the machines and they like to stick crap in the validators/coin mechs - leaves, pieces of paper and pennies...craploads of pennies everytime I get a location where kids have access, pennies start showing up.

Anyway, have a decent hotel account with a bottle drop and snack machine in the lobby - nice location probably a 2-1/2 or 3 star hotel - they keep it pretty nice, have after-hours security and cameras.

On Sat went for regular service and walk in to see OUT OF ORDER signs on both machines - WTF?  They looked fine from the outside, opened them up and son-of-a-biscuit....cassettes gone from both coin mechs, change buckets gone from both machines and validators cleaned out - rotten bastages.

Locks were not drilled, no damage to the machines - figure some tweaker got hands on one of those tubular lock pick sets off ebay or something and just opened them up - have registered locks so supposedly no one else has the key and I can account for every one that I've ever received so locks must have been picked.

Replaced the cassettes and change buckets, got both machines up and running - my contact there checked the video feed - saw his security guard escort some guy with a tool box into the vending area and then walk back out without him - suspect the guy showed up and announced he was there to "work" on the vending machines and got escorted straight to the machines to rip them off - ballsy.

Anyway, like feeding a stray dog expect he will be back to do it again, so need to beef up the locks and have a question:

add a hasp with padlock or better quality tube lock?   

The account has no interest in "solving the crime" - they don't want criminal activity on their property and if the machines are attracting lowlifes desperate to get at the $$ they will want the machines removed/replaced with machines less susceptible.  So going to start with stronger locks and then move to cages if that becomes necessary.

 

ABC

 

 

[NYCandyMaN]

lol, if he can pick a tubular, he can pick any lock, id throw a hidden cam inside  show it to the police and make a report, as he can be a pro locksmith guy, who has to have a licence to use those tools, cages will not help you, unless they are inside the machine, think smart not secure, put a detterent on, the camera will do it, but must have one visible (dummy cam) and one inside, hidden, and also dont forget that it could be someone you know, or a local vendor pissed off at you for some reason, anything can be! good luck.

[Corvus Corax]

I have a hotel location the was hit a couple of times. I put a "smile you are on camera" sign on it. Which they actually are. Most hotel/motels have pretty good camera systems. Both times they caught the guys, but going to court is a huge hassle.

[NYCandyMaN]

that'll work also, you're a vendor, think smart, cheap, and most effective way to keep them away, and dont forget, while youre busy scratching your head on these 2, protect the rest of your investments as well!

[ABCVending]

25 minutes ago, Corvus Corax said:

I have a hotel location the was hit a couple of times. I put a "smile you are on camera" sign on it. Which they actually are. Most hotel/motels have pretty good camera systems. Both times they caught the guys, but going to court is a huge hassle.

Yep - Hotel has cameras that cover entrance/exit to the area (small room) where the machines are but not actually on the machines themselves - they have footage of the guy they think did it, but only entering/leaving the room, not in the act.

Cops got no interest in pursuing a case like this - they got bigger fish to fry.

Probably good idea to put up the smile you're on camera sign as a scarecrow - have those up at the apartments.

[ABCVending]

44 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

lol, if he can pick a tubular, he can pick any lock,

You think?

They sell those tubular lock pick sets on Amazon for like $30 - I am going to buy one and see how easy they are to use on some of my machines in the shop - will find out pretty quick how tough it is.   

Am thinking about adding a hasp with one of those hockey puck locks to make things a bit more difficult (will leave the thandle and lock on the machine and add the hasp)

[AZVendor]

At apartments and hotels it's a matter of when, not if, you will be broken into.  You have to put high security locks on - no Ace locks.  Put any factory security kits on and secure them with hockey pucks with high security lock cylinders.  Use aftermarket T-handle covers and heavy side hasps with pucks.  Cages are wonderful as well.

[ABCVending]

1 hour ago, AZVendor said:

At apartments and hotels it's a matter of when, not if, you will be broken into.  You have to put high security locks on - no Ace locks.  Put any factory security kits on and secure them with hockey pucks with high security lock cylinders.  Use aftermarket T-handle covers and heavy side hasps with pucks.  Cages are wonderful as well.

T-handle covers!!  that's what I was looking for - didn't know what to call them, got a couple on the way now.

 

 

[orsd]

Or just remove the mechs and vals and go credit card reader only.

No money, no theft.

Otherwise use Medeco or Abloy locks (LSI sells them) and add hasps to the side and secure them with hockey puck locks.

Also, if you run T handle covers use big beefy brand name locks. Medeco/ABLOY/American lock. None of that Masterlock bullshit. Same with the hockey pucks. If you do it right it should run you over 100 dollars per machine.

[javajeffs]

Same thing happened to me a couple years back. I would get a call from my accounts that my machine doors were open. They hit about 20 accounts doing exactly what you described - cassettes gone, coin box gone, and bill box gone. One of my accounts, a motel, got them on camera but it wasn't clear enough to see faces. They popped the locks and were out in less than 2 minutes. Thought I'd go the hasp route to slow them down. Everything was good for about a month and then got hit again, same accounts. They cut through the hasps and popped the locks. I finally had enough and ordered Abloy locks that deadbolt if they are tampered with. My lock guy told me that anyone that knows locks (which these guys probably do) would know that these are un-pickable. Problem solved, haven't gotten hit again since and it's been a couple of years. The only issue is that if someone does try to drill the locks it will deadbolt and no one will get into it including me. The difference is that I can spend the time to do a thorough drill job on the t handle where a thief wants to get in and out fast. Good luck to you. 

[Southeast Treats]

If you have not already, do make a police report on this one... you are probably not the only victim but you have some video at least.  There are people who have key collections and make the rounds, sometimes alone or sometimes as a group.  Depending on where you got your registered locks they may not be as uncommon as you think.  I have had amateurs use the tubular lockpicks and they usually mess up the locks in the process, so you would know if they were picked.  I have had pretty good luck with Medeco locks.

[ABCVending]

10 hours ago, Southeast Treats said:

If you have not already, do make a police report on this one... you are probably not the only victim but you have some video at least.  There are people who have key collections and make the rounds, sometimes alone or sometimes as a group.  Depending on where you got your registered locks they may not be as uncommon as you think.  I have had amateurs use the tubular lockpicks and they usually mess up the locks in the process, so you would know if they were picked.  I have had pretty good luck with Medeco locks.

Got my locks from LAI group - but they are just basic locks far as I know - all keyed the same.

Will look at the Medeco locks, thanks

[ABCVending]

15 hours ago, orsd said:

Or just remove the mechs and vals and go credit card reader only.

No money, no theft.

Otherwise use Medeco or Abloy locks (LSI sells them) and add hasps to the side and secure them with hockey puck locks.

Also, if you run T handle covers use big beefy brand name locks. Medeco/ABLOY/American lock. None of that Masterlock bullshit. Same with the hockey pucks. If you do it right it should run you over 100 dollars per machine.

LSI - thanks, will check them out.

$100 per machine sounds right - think the covers are $25 from D&S and probably around $75 ea for good quality puck locks - starting out with that

[NYCandyMaN]

let me get this straight, you guys are saying that a t handle lock from an no-name brand vs a medeco brand is not as easily pick-able? to my knowledge, all tubular locks are pick-able, I've lost keys before, I've picked them all, its not the lock, its more of the pick that's being used, sometimes it took me a few minutes, and sometimes it took me a lot longer, i know my locks are nothing crazy, i got them from eBay, 20 locks, with a random key, that i know im the only one that has it. most of these companies that sell you locks and keys would say that "no one within 100 mile radius of you has the same key" that's a bunch of BS, i have another vendor near me, and just for giggles i decided to put my key in it, guess what happened???? so i don't believe that BS, do you really think that they will sit there and map out every vendor and his location? they do the same thing were doing. somehow i feel a bit safer ordering from eBay, as i know they are coming from far away, i know they only have the amount i ordered keyed alike, they are definitely not keeping copies, then again they can, but even if they did, they would have to hit every machine within lets say 10 miles radius to even get close to it, which will be completely useless, and a waste of time to them. On the other hand, a network of thieves selling locks to other vendors, is not a bad idea also, the guy from eBay sends me my 20 locks and a spare key to a friend in the area, all he has to do is begin the elimination process by trying every key hes got for the area, which probably wont be too hard if there's not to many orders, but think about it. if you're ordering your keys, and they do decide to ask you what area you're running with your machines, just tell them a BS state and location, this way you're safe.

[NYCandyMaN]

where are you operating from? if anyone else in in area, they can avoid this problem

On 2/10/2020 at 2:46 PM, ABCVending said:

You think?

They sell those tubular lock pick sets on Amazon for like $30 - I am going to buy one and see how easy they are to use on some of my machines in the shop - will find out pretty quick how tough it is.   

Am thinking about adding a hasp with one of those hockey puck locks to make things a bit more difficult (will leave the thandle and lock on the machine and add the hasp)

 

[orsd]

3 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

let me get this straight, you guys are saying that a t handle lock from an no-name brand vs a medeco brand is not as easily pick-able? to my knowledge, all tubular locks are pick-able, I've lost keys before, I've picked them all, its not the lock, its more of the pick that's being used, sometimes it took me a few minutes, and sometimes it took me a lot longer, i know my locks are nothing crazy, i got them from eBay, 20 locks, with a random key, that i know im the only one that has it. most of these companies that sell you locks and keys would say that "no one within 100 mile radius of you has the same key" that's a bunch of BS, i have another vendor near me, and just for giggles i decided to put my key in it, guess what happened???? so i don't believe that BS, do you really think that they will sit there and map out every vendor and his location? they do the same thing were doing. somehow i feel a bit safer ordering from eBay, as i know they are coming from far away, i know they only have the amount i ordered keyed alike, they are definitely not keeping copies, then again they can, but even if they did, they would have to hit every machine within lets say 10 miles radius to even get close to it, which will be completely useless, and a waste of time to them. On the other hand, a network of thieves selling locks to other vendors, is not a bad idea also, the guy from eBay sends me my 20 locks and a spare key to a friend in the area, all he has to do is begin the elimination process by trying every key hes got for the area, which probably wont be too hard if there's not to many orders, but think about it. if you're ordering your keys, and they do decide to ask you what area you're running with your machines, just tell them a BS state and location, this way you're safe.

Medeco and Abloy are not tubular locks.

Also, they take key control very seriously. They will assign you a unique code. Only the distributor that originally sold you locks is allow to sell you more. All keys are stamped with the distributors name. And the key is patented. 

[ABCVending]

5 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

where are you operating from? if anyone else in in area, they can avoid this problem

 

Seattle metro - mostly East & South of the downtown core

[ABCVending]

5 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

let me get this straight, you guys are saying that a t handle lock from an no-name brand vs a medeco brand is not as easily pick-able? to my knowledge, all tubular locks are pick-able, I've lost keys before, I've picked them all, its not the lock, its more of the pick that's being used, sometimes it took me a few minutes, and sometimes it took me a lot longer, i know my locks are nothing crazy, i got them from eBay, 20 locks, with a random key, that i know im the only one that has it. most of these companies that sell you locks and keys would say that "no one within 100 mile radius of you has the same key" that's a bunch of BS, i have another vendor near me, and just for giggles i decided to put my key in it, guess what happened???? so i don't believe that BS, do you really think that they will sit there and map out every vendor and his location? they do the same thing were doing. somehow i feel a bit safer ordering from eBay, as i know they are coming from far away, i know they only have the amount i ordered keyed alike, they are definitely not keeping copies, then again they can, but even if they did, they would have to hit every machine within lets say 10 miles radius to even get close to it, which will be completely useless, and a waste of time to them. On the other hand, a network of thieves selling locks to other vendors, is not a bad idea also, the guy from eBay sends me my 20 locks and a spare key to a friend in the area, all he has to do is begin the elimination process by trying every key hes got for the area, which probably wont be too hard if there's not to many orders, but think about it. if you're ordering your keys, and they do decide to ask you what area you're running with your machines, just tell them a BS state and location, this way you're safe.

Yeah I got my no-name brand locks from a place called Lock America - think the website is LAIgroup.com I supposedly have a unique key registered with them so when I need more locks they send me one's ready to go with the keys I have.

For the most part, the LAI locks look and perform like all the other vending machine locks I have messed with - buy most of my stuff used of Craigslist or Offerup, soon as I get a machine I swap out whatever lock is on there for one of mine so all my machines are keyed alike - never gotten an Abloy or Medeco lock on a used machine (they cost more so most people probably keep them) - have bags of locks & keys from used machines - some of them like the ones stamped DN25 are on a LOT of machines - probably a Dixie key that got put on a lot of equipment.  I do sometimes buy machines that have locks that I already have keys for - why I changed everything to my "unique" key from LAI

I think these cheaper locks are pickable with the ebay pick sets - sure looks like they are on the Youtube videos, but I have not tried myself - figured if I ever got locked out of a machine I'd try the picks before drilling just haven't been locked out yet - knock on wood

Anyway - the majority of my accounts are in closed environments with no public access so have never really had a problem with people trying to get into them.  The few that I do have accessible to the public (like these) are in areas that make it difficult to get much "alone" time with the machine - don't think there is anyway I am going to have a "smash & grab" at this hotel, but a clever guy with a lock pick and some brass balls could get into the machines (obviously)

Got a set of Abloy locks on the way for this one account and a set of the thandle covers and some puck locks for another account I am now concerned about - will see if that helps

 

[NYCandyMaN]

https://www.ebay.com/i/223541073543?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=223541073543&targetid=871989892023&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9004370&poi=&campaignid=9250231321&mkgroupid=93508108266&rlsatarget=pla-871989892023&abcId=1145977&merchantid=115353089&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4sjyBRC5ARIsAEHsELF0zxKrXT1Y4yNG4PRJXxEAYOEh5r7PlWfWdTWEmiPVEcjH93f-o2IaApfWEALw_wcB

 

looks like a standard lock that can be picked with a bump key

 

https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2-T-Handle-Vending-Machine-Cylinder.html

this one looks like it can be drilled right out, even makes the 1st hole for you, is it worth the $76?

[ABCVending]

14 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2-T-Handle-Vending-Machine-Cylinder.html

this one looks like it can be drilled right out, even makes the 1st hole for you, is it worth the $76?

Think so?

Damn, well those are the ones I got - think the lock is designed to spin if you try and drill but I am not an expert.

Account moved some cameras around and put up additional signage, so will see if that plus the locks make a difference

[orsd]

On 2/23/2020 at 9:46 PM, NYCandyMan said:

https://www.ebay.com/i/223541073543?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=223541073543&targetid=871989892023&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9004370&poi=&campaignid=9250231321&mkgroupid=93508108266&rlsatarget=pla-871989892023&abcId=1145977&merchantid=115353089&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4sjyBRC5ARIsAEHsELF0zxKrXT1Y4yNG4PRJXxEAYOEh5r7PlWfWdTWEmiPVEcjH93f-o2IaApfWEALw_wcB

 

looks like a standard lock that can be picked with a bump key

 

https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2-T-Handle-Vending-Machine-Cylinder.html

this one looks like it can be drilled right out, even makes the 1st hole for you, is it worth the $76?

There is no way you are bumping a Medeco open.

This guy is probably one of the best there is at lockpicking. Most cheap locks he can open in under 10 seconds. This is him picking a medeco. 

Also Abloys aren’t that easy to drill. Looks can be deceiving. In any case LSI has abloys for a lot less.

[NYCandyMaN]

Agreed, and it was picked 😀

What I am trying to say, is that all these locks are using the same principal to lock, the same principal would be used to break them.

[orsd]

48 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

Agreed, and it was picked 😀

What I am trying to say, is that all these locks are using the same principal to lock, the same principal would be used to break them.

There are a lot of anti pick features that Medeco builds in.

In any case it took him a couple minutes. Which means it would take an average person a couple hours.

Now at the end of the day most of what we as vendors want in a lock is deterrence. We don’t need Fort Knox, only enough deterence to keep your average meth head and maybe a tubular pick wielding theft ring deterred. If someone wants in bad enough they will get in.