$1300 for a compressor pt2

[Spencer]

Hi everyone, 

I doubt anyone remembers but I made a similar post in 2015 back when I was in High School. Now I'm in college and I'm the manager at a laundromat, where we have 4 vending machines. I just bought a used "refurbished" Dixie Narco 5800 glass front vending machine. It worked for about a week, and then stopped cooling. I pulled the back off and noticed the thermal overload protector wire that  connects to the compressor was melted. So I bought a new one and installed it. It cooled again and worked great for about two days, and then the same thing happened, the wire melted. I thought this might me the compressor going bad, drawing too many amps, so I called a bunch of refrigeration repair guys, but none of them work on vending machines for some reason except one guy who quoted me $1200. 

Now obviously I know this is ridiculously high, as I basically got the same job done for $250 back in 2015. The only problem is back then there were options and I can shop around. here in Reno, it seems like this guy is the only one that does this. 

 

So my question is, do you guys think its the compressor, and if so, can I repair it myself? I'm fairly technical, and wouldn't mind buying equipment because we have a few locations all with refrigeration so I could repair those when they inevitably go bad too. 

Any suggestions for the vending machine noob would be greatly appreciated

Thank you, 

Spencer

Edited July 3, 2020 by Spencer

[NYCandyMaN]

1300 is way too much, you can get a brand new compressor for about a third of that from eBay with warranty, I would remove the compressor and take it to a local guy, don't tell them where it's from, all compressors are the same, it's just when you tell them it's from a vending machine they think you're rich or something, in NY there is also one guy, to take machine to him is expensive, to have him come out is 75/hr that starts when he's heading to you, I usually take out the compressors and bring to him, sometimes I have to come back 2 or 3x bc the problem is not always visible right away, my avarage repair is about $50 to 200 per compressor, but it's so worth it, even if I have to take multiple long rides out, I make sure I have a backup compressor setup

[Chard]

a compressor deck for a DN 5800 is going to be much higher than you expect if the compressor is bad.  $1300 is high, but you should reasonably expect to pay at least 1/2 that if not more.

[AngryChris]

2 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

1300 is way too much, you can get a brand new compressor for about a third of that from eBay with warranty, I would remove the compressor and take it to a local guy, don't tell them where it's from, all compressors are the same, it's just when you tell them it's from a vending machine they think you're rich or something, in NY there is also one guy, to take machine to him is expensive, to have him come out is 75/hr that starts when he's heading to you, I usually take out the compressors and bring to him, sometimes I have to come back 2 or 3x bc the problem is not always visible right away, my avarage repair is about $50 to 200 per compressor, but it's so worth it, even if I have to take multiple long rides out, I make sure I have a backup compressor setup

Where do you see a new DN 5800 deck for 1/3 of $1300?

[AZVendor]

To the OP:  Put a hard start kit on your compressor.  Get the larger one for a larger compressor - Supco RCO210.  If that fails then you need a new compressor. 

To Chris:  NY is talking about buying just the compressor bell housing itself and having someone do the work.  But you better know EXACTLY what model you need.  The risk is in the shipping and handling because if it's handled roughly the rotor in the compressor can come off of one of the springs it rides on and you'll get a very loud compressor.  Too risky for me.  Around here we go to a refrigeration wholesaler and buy compressors that have been handled safely - often off of a pallet.  He's also too cheap to pay the man so he trucks himself all over kingdom come to save a few bucks.  He must have a lot of time on his hands.

[Spencer]

4 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

1300 is way too much, you can get a brand new compressor for about a third of that from eBay with warranty, I would remove the compressor and take it to a local guy, don't tell them where it's from, all compressors are the same, it's just when you tell them it's from a vending machine they think you're rich or something, in NY there is also one guy, to take machine to him is expensive, to have him come out is 75/hr that starts when he's heading to you, I usually take out the compressors and bring to him, sometimes I have to come back 2 or 3x bc the problem is not always visible right away, my avarage repair is about $50 to 200 per compressor, but it's so worth it, even if I have to take multiple long rides out, I make sure I have a backup compressor setup

Yeah I was looking at the exact compressor thats in the vending machine and its like $200 refurbished on eBay. To remove the compressor do I need to evac the freon first or can I just cut the wires? Ill see if I can find a compressor repair guy here, but to confirm you think its a compressor on its last leg? Also, how do I recharge it after I'm done, do you know of any videos or something showing how to do that. 

Thats what I read/understood about compressors, there all the same, thats why I was so confused why everyone was saying they dont work on vending machines. 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Spencer

[Spencer]

3 hours ago, Chard said:

a compressor deck for a DN 5800 is going to be much higher than you expect if the compressor is bad.  $1300 is high, but you should reasonably expect to pay at least 1/2 that if not more.

I was thinking of just replacing the broken part, not the whole deck. But yeah I understand it can cost a lot but $1200 just seemed outrageous to me. 

[Spencer]

19 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

To the OP:  Put a hard start kit on your compressor.  Get the larger one for a larger compressor - Supco RCO210.  If that fails then you need a new compressor. 

To Chris:  NY is talking about buying just the compressor bell housing itself and having someone do the work.  But you better know EXACTLY what model you need.  The risk is in the shipping and handling because if it's handled roughly the rotor in the compressor can come off of one of the springs it rides on and you'll get a very loud compressor.  Too risky for me.  Around here we go to a refrigeration wholesaler and buy compressors that have been handled safely - often off of a pallet.  He's also too cheap to pay the man so he trucks himself all over kingdom come to save a few bucks.  He must have a lot of time on his hands.

Thanks for the tips, I did readup on the hard start kits, but from what I understood that is for compressor that don't start with the normal relay, you think it would work for my situation for the compressor runs, but burns the wiring?

[orsd]

 

1 hour ago, Spencer said:

I was thinking of just replacing the broken part, not the whole deck. But yeah I understand it can cost a lot but $1200 just seemed outrageous to me. 

The cheapest and easiest way is to do the whole deck. They are designed to come out and go in without evacuating refrigerant, and all wiring has a connnector to simply unplug.

To do a compressor right you need about 2 grand in equipment. Recovery machine and tank, vacuum pump, nitrogen tank, gauges, refrigerant scale, oxy/acetylene torch set. While the deck comes out easy the compressor itself is pretty technical. You need to recover the refrigerant, and purge the system, then cut the lines or melt the brazing with a torch. Then flush the system and braze a new compressor in. Pull a vacuum then nitrogen purge a couple times. Then recharge.

Here is a complete rebuilt deck, with new compressor. Around 750 + shipping.

https://vendingworks.com/collections/dixie-narco-compressor-decks/products/dixie-narco-crane-national-bevmax-4-refrigeration-compressor-unit?variant=31421507797126

To get a refrigeration guy to do a compressor is gonna be 8-900+. 1200 is kinda high but not unreasonable if the compressor itself is expensive from the supplier. Keep in mind however their work is not warrantied. The rebuilt deck carries a 2 year warranty.

Edited July 3, 2020 by orsd

[Spencer]

1 hour ago, orsd said:

 

The cheapest and easiest way is to do the whole deck. They are designed to come out and go in without evacuating refrigerant, and all wiring has a connnector to simply unplug.

To do a compressor right you need about 2 grand in equipment. Recovery machine and tank, vacuum pump, nitrogen tank, gauges, refrigerant scale, oxy/acetylene torch set. While the deck comes out easy the compressor itself is pretty technical. You need to recover the refrigerant, and purge the system, then cut the lines or melt the brazing with a torch. Then flush the system and braze a new compressor in. Pull a vacuum then nitrogen purge a couple times. Then recharge.

Here is a complete rebuilt deck, with new compressor. Around 750 + shipping.

https://vendingworks.com/collections/dixie-narco-compressor-decks/products/dixie-narco-crane-national-bevmax-4-refrigeration-compressor-unit?variant=31421507797126

To get a refrigeration guy to do a compressor is gonna be 8-900+. 1200 is kinda high but not unreasonable if the compressor itself is expensive from the supplier. Keep in mind however their work is not warrantied. The rebuilt deck carries a 2 year warranty.

Thanks for explaining this to me! I'm not necessarily opposed to buying 2 grand in equipment as I doubt this will be the last time I do this. Seems like a better long term investment compared to replacing the whole deck every time? The link you shared is out of stock, but it looks like dsv has one? https://www.dsvendinginc.com/p-8543-d65701270-dn-bevmax-4-refrigeration-system-new-complete.aspx

Is there anyway I can pull the deck out and get it refurbished? 

 

Thanks

Spencer

[AZVendor]

Go with the hard start kit first and see if that solves your problem.  It's a cheap investment and if it isn't the solution then you can hold on to it for future use.

[Spencer]

33 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

Go with the hard start kit first and see if that solves your problem.  It's a cheap investment and if it isn't the solution then you can hold on to it for future use.

Yeah I agree, I would like be thrilled if it fixed the problem, but otherwise it seems like a useful part to have around. Thank you

[David DeBord]

Uhhh,.. New here, but,.... If You are having wires melting, You have a Far bigger Problem, than what a Hard Start kit is designed for. For one, find out what is protecting that circuit, & why it's not kicking a breaker, or  blowing a fuse.  Then find out what is pulling Amperage High enough to melt that wiring.

 

U slap a "3-n- 1", or "5 -n -1" on a unit that is burning wires, then U might as well look forward to buying a New Comp, if not putting out a Fire.

[AZVendor]

Probably up against the wall with only one condenser fan running but hard starts don't start fires, they fall out before that happens unless something else burns.  Besides, all it takes is a loose connection or a bad start relay for a wire to burn - it's not always a catastrophe.

Edited July 14, 2020 by AZVendor

[David DeBord]

Gotta disagree here AZ,.... I've Hard Starts melt, & blow out i Air Conditioning & Refrigeration Equipment. I wouldn't advise anybody to throw a Hard Start Kit on anything, until the problem was determined.

And yes,.. It simply could be a loose connection etc.,.... But that would be speculation only, without eyes on the unit, & not having any Test readings.

 

[AZVendor]

You are experienced with AC units, not medium temp vending compressors, which I have over 30 years of experience with.  They are different animals.  When a vending compressor exhibits trouble starting the first thing to do, before it burns itself up is to put a hard start on it to see if it will run without laboring.  If so then a hard start can remain on the unit until it again labors to start at which time the compressor must be replaced.  It's a matter of listening to the compressor and then paying attention to how it runs in it's life after the hard start is applied.  That is the vending operators responsibility.

AC units, on the other hand can have more devastating results if a hard start is used, though one of my home AC units has one on it since it burned out two different breakers.  It starts every time now with no laboring.  

[Spencer]

On 7/13/2020 at 7:02 PM, David DeBord said:

Uhhh,.. New here, but,.... If You are having wires melting, You have a Far bigger Problem, than what a Hard Start kit is designed for. For one, find out what is protecting that circuit, & why it's not kicking a breaker, or  blowing a fuse.  Then find out what is pulling Amperage High enough to melt that wiring.

 

U slap a "3-n- 1", or "5 -n -1" on a unit that is burning wires, then U might as well look forward to buying a New Comp, if not putting out a Fire.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 4:41 AM, AZVendor said:

You are experienced with AC units, not medium temp vending compressors, which I have over 30 years of experience with.  They are different animals.  When a vending compressor exhibits trouble starting the first thing to do, before it burns itself up is to put a hard start on it to see if it will run without laboring.  If so then a hard start can remain on the unit until it again labors to start at which time the compressor must be replaced.  It's a matter of listening to the compressor and then paying attention to how it runs in it's life after the hard start is applied.  That is the vending operators responsibility.

AC units, on the other hand can have more devastating results if a hard start is used, though one of my home AC units has one on it since it burned out two different breakers.  It starts every time now with no laboring.  

I got a the hard start AZVendor recommended and its been working great ever since. I checked the heat of the wires, starter and compressor and they all were barely hot after running for an hour. been going for almost a month! 

Thanks AZ for the recommendation, saved me a lot of money.

[NYCandyMaN]

here's for all of you guys....

the standard cooling deck used in almost all dixie machines are all the same so here's a link to the standard one from eBay

eBay item number 253772183174  $309, I've seen them cheaper

 

and here's one for the 5800 that everyone seems to be overpaying for, it is $550

eBay item number 114374204879

ordering a compressor online is actually a positive benefit, as there is usually a 1 year warranty, where as the local guy can probably do 30 to 90 days, if you're lucky maybe 6 months

FYI

I do compressor work myself, you as a vendor should know every aspect of the machine/s you are running that includes diagnostics of all parts, if I don't have time to fix it, I will send out for repair, I am not cheap, nor am I rich, but knowing what i use is a necessity in any line of work, 

"learn the tool before you use it"

[orsd]

38 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

here's for all of you guys....

the standard cooling deck used in almost all dixie machines are all the same so here's a link to the standard one from eBay

eBay item number 253772183174  $309, I've seen them cheaper

 

and here's one for the 5800 that everyone seems to be overpaying for, it is $550

eBay item number 114374204879

ordering a compressor online is actually a positive benefit, as there is usually a 1 year warranty, where as the local guy can probably do 30 to 90 days, if you're lucky maybe 6 months

FYI

I do compressor work myself, you as a vendor should know every aspect of the machine/s you are running that includes diagnostics of all parts, if I don't have time to fix it, I will send out for repair, I am not cheap, nor am I rich, but knowing what i use is a necessity in any line of work, 

"learn the tool before you use it"

The first item is the supplier I linked above, Vending Works.

Also, when AZ said don’t order a compressor online he meant don’t order the small black actual compressor online. Those are small and dense which means they will be tossed around badly. But most vendors are not capable of replacing a compressor properly.

If you mean a refrigeration deck when you say compressor then I agree. Pulling and replacing decks you bought online is a great way to save money. But replacing an actual compressor is not. You save very little money and most vendors can’t do it anyways.

Edited September 25, 2020 by orsd

[AngryChris]

Not all 5800 decks are the same.

[NYCandyMaN]

On 9/25/2020 at 1:25 PM, orsd said:

The first item is the supplier I linked above, Vending Works.

Also, when AZ said don’t order a compressor online he meant don’t order the small black actual compressor online. Those are small and dense which means they will be tossed around badly. But most vendors are not capable of replacing a compressor properly.

If you mean a refrigeration deck when you say compressor then I agree. Pulling and replacing decks you bought online is a great way to save money. But replacing an actual compressor is not. You save very little money and most vendors can’t do it anyways.

exactly, the whole deck has to get changed or ordered, ordering just the actual motor is a calling for torture if you're not a compressor person.