putrevus Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 11:04 AM, lacanteen said: I could send you a board and see what happens. If it works you can send a donation to TVF in my honor. PM me your shipping info including phone or email me: gbruss<at>mmsalescompany<dot>com I did change the board and it is still happening. I also did this press mode button press "E" (display will show "optn") press "A" until 'Yes" {forced vend} press "B" until "No" {escrow bill} press mode button to exit The only difference is now when I press the mode button, it is showing 40 instead of 45. Should I change coin mech also? Thanks again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I'm wondering if it's a voltage issue. Maybe bad transformer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 12 hours ago, AngryChris said: I'm wondering if it's a voltage issue. Maybe bad transformer I spoke to Crane Technical support people, he was saying maybe these boards are not designed to have credit card readers? They no longer support these old machines with new parts also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 12 hours ago, AngryChris said: I'm wondering if it's a voltage issue. Maybe bad transformer How do we change transformer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 15 hours ago, putrevus said: How do we change transformer I've only done it once. Definitely unplug the machine first but I don't want to try to give advice on that. The card reader works fine on it though so that tech is useless if they don't know that. It just won't report cash sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsd Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Cards don’t work on older non MDB LCMs. Might need an EPROM on newer ones. And no DEX so no cash sales unless you have a UCB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 57 minutes ago, orsd said: Cards don’t work on older non MDB LCMs. Might need an EPROM on newer ones. You're right about that but a crane tech should have enough experience to know about the LCM in my opinion. Plus, his machine not only has the MDB plug on his board but it looks like he's all-mdb already! Then again, I am under the impression that the tech was trying to say that the validator isn't working right because the board can't handle card readers. I could have misunderstood that part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 7 hours ago, orsd said: Cards don’t work on older non MDB LCMs. Might need an EPROM on newer ones. And no DEX so no cash sales unless you have a UCB. It does not have dex but it is MDB control board.The original board from AP is also MDB capable. The only thing few other technicians including Crane guy and all have suggested is Card reader might be the problem. I have unhooked card reader last night and I will check to see if it jams again. Logically speaking once any card reader and bill acceptor work together, they should always work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 6 hours ago, AngryChris said: You're right about that but a crane tech should have enough experience to know about the LCM in my opinion. Plus, his machine not only has the MDB plug on his board but it looks like he's all-mdb already! Then again, I am under the impression that the tech was trying to say that the validator isn't working right because the board can't handle card readers. I could have misunderstood that part. The board is MDB ready, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venddoctor Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 What is the number on the the white label on the chip? The last version of software for the LCM was 67061-9 which was released in 2001 and to the best of my knowledge there have been no updates to it since then. I know for a fact nothing was released before I left AP in 2011 and I doubt Crane released anything since then. Now what that means is the LCM has a early version of MDB and there have been many changes to the protocol since 2001. Just for the record Version 3 of the MDB protocol was released in March 2003 and version 4.3 was released in 2019. The LCM's protocol is either version 1 or 2. If I remember correctly it is version 1 but I don't remember for sure. So to try to shorten this post lets just say I can see the card reader causing some strange issues with the MDB line as the LCM MDB protocol may, not support what the card reader is trying to do/communicate. While I don't recall ever taking a phone call with your issue so I can't say for sure the reader is the cause of your issue it may be possible. One other thing to note is there are no longer any original AP employees left at Crane in their technical support department. I was the last one and I haven't been there since September of 2011. There are still 2 original AP employees left but they are traveling techs and do not answer the phones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 11 hours ago, venddoctor said: What is the number on the the white label on the chip? The last version of software for the LCM was 67061-9 which was released in 2001 and to the best of my knowledge there have been no updates to it since then. I know for a fact nothing was released before I left AP in 2011 and I doubt Crane released anything since then. Now what that means is the LCM has a early version of MDB and there have been many changes to the protocol since 2001. Just for the record Version 3 of the MDB protocol was released in March 2003 and version 4.3 was released in 2019. The LCM's protocol is either version 1 or 2. If I remember correctly it is version 1 but I don't remember for sure. So to try to shorten this post lets just say I can see the card reader causing some strange issues with the MDB line as the LCM MDB protocol may, not support what the card reader is trying to do/communicate. While I don't recall ever taking a phone call with your issue so I can't say for sure the reader is the cause of your issue it may be possible. One other thing to note is there are no longer any original AP employees left at Crane in their technical support department. I was the last one and I haven't been there since September of 2011. There are still 2 original AP employees left but they are traveling techs and do not answer the phones. The number on the chip is 67061-8 dated 03/15/2001.After taking card reader out of loop it was running fine till yesterday. I will check again on Monday to see if it is still working without getting jammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 3 hours ago, putrevus said: The number on the chip is 67061-8 dated 03/15/2001.After taking card reader out of loop it was running fine till yesterday. I will check again on Monday to see if it is still working without getting jammed. What kind of card reader? I have an LCM with a 2502, 9302-gx, and USA tech g9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I never put card readers on machines that don't DEX, hence, all of my LCMs have In-One boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 9 hours ago, AngryChris said: What kind of card reader? I have an LCM with a 2502, 9302-gx, and USA tech g9. Card reader is Airvend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 8 hours ago, lacanteen said: I never put card readers on machines that don't DEX, hence, all of my LCMs have In-One boards. I never thought, it would have these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 I don't know if that is causing the problem, but the Studio machine, which replaced the LCM and has a similar board did not handle cards well without a flash chip update. The DEX data is crucial in so many ways for not just telemetry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 18 hours ago, lacanteen said: I don't know if that is causing the problem, but the Studio machine, which replaced the LCM and has a similar board did not handle cards well without a flash chip update. The DEX data is crucial in so many ways for not just telemetry. What is best DEX hand held device and what would be best software for it? Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacanteen Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 2 hours ago, putrevus said: What is best DEX hand held device and what would be best software for it? Thanks for your help. That's a tough question to answer. DEX is a commitment to making sure procedures are in place and followed. You also have to use the data or it's inane to collect it. We are currently using iPads with Streamware. Lightspeed powers our pick line, also linked to Streamware. USAT sends 2 DEXes every day to Streamware. All of these links are precise and must be maintained. The days of the dedicated handheld are waning. A lot of companies are requiring drivers to have and maintain an iPhone to work machines. It's all a matter of what you can afford for the number of machines and routes that you have. The hardware that you have must play nice with any VMS you consider. DEX is a standard data format that requires a program to parse the data. I can say Streamware is expensive, especially if you have many routes. I hear good things about Par Level, and there's a few more decent ones out there. We are testing a VMS that can't be discussed but works in virtual real time, meaning if a location calls about warm drinks in their Bev Max, I can look and see that the route driver filled the machine an hour ago, so I don't need to send a tech, especially when I can see how many drinks he put in there. Our iPads send data as it's generated. Bar codes and DEX are a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 5:50 PM, Vendo Mike said: It looks to me like the bill is being held in "escrow". That simply means that it won't stack the bill into the bill box until a selection is made. If the coin return button is pressed it can return the bill instead of changing for quarters. If you have "force vend" turned on, a customer must make a selection once credit meeting the minimum vend price is established. I am curious if a credit is displayed when the bill is accepted to that point. No credit was being displayed. I have removed credit card reader and it has been working fine since then. AP LCM machines even though they are MDB will not work with credit card readers. I have learnt that in a very hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 7 hours ago, putrevus said: No credit was being displayed. I have removed credit card reader and it has been working fine since then. AP LCM machines even though they are MDB will not work with credit card readers. I have learnt that in a very hard way. I have some working with card readers with stock boards so your statement isn't entirely true. I also have USI machines with similar boards that also have card readers. I think you have a board with an older incompatible eprom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
putrevus Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/20/2020 at 7:42 PM, AngryChris said: I have some working with card readers with stock boards so your statement isn't entirely true. I also have USI machines with similar boards that also have card readers. I think you have a board with an older incompatible eprom When I spoke to Crane technician and gave the serial number .he said it was original board from AP for LCM3. Mine has 45 selections . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryChris Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 hour ago, putrevus said: When I spoke to Crane technician and gave the serial number .he said it was original board from AP for LCM3. Mine has 45 selections . Mine is an LCM 2 I believe. Same board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 7:51 AM, putrevus said: When I spoke to Crane technician and gave the serial number .he said it was original board from AP for LCM3. Mine has 45 selections . They use the same board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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