Re-Key machines or not? Opinions Please

[tblake05]

Restocked a location this afternoon.  It tends to be a decent location.  Acquired it about this same time last year.  Immediately after we bought the location, we swapped in 2 new cores that matched the rest of out machines.  Which aren't the most common vending locks, but they aren't your typical selectivend lock core or anything.

We restock every 10 days or so.  Not last time but the time before that, the T-handle was popped open on the snack machine.  Nothing appeared to be missing and cash was on par with what we stocked (as per MDB reporting).  We found it a little odd because my wife always makes it a point double check they are locked by jiggling the t-handle before she leaves location.

Last time we were there, the T-handle was securely locked.  Just tonight, we arrived, and T-handle popped again.  Same as before, no apparent cash missing and the kitted product we brought completely matched what was missing from the machine aside from maybe one pack of doritos.

Machine is a Wittern 32? Selection snack machine.  The adjacent Soda machine has never had issues.  Though if they have a copy key of the snack machine, it works in the soda machine as well.  I havent noticed any theft but with +/- as the coin mech consumes and banks change I suppose its possible.  Maybe its an opportunist who only takes a few dollars here and there to go un-noticed.  Theft is theft though right?

Thinking I may get the 7-cut lock from lsidepot with secured key for all out machines.  Though to re-key them all would cost about 300.00.  Or should I just swap it with a different core I have for time being?

I fiddled with the snack machine locked for 5 minutes tonight and could not get it to pop.

What do you guys think?

[AngryChris]

It could be your lock.  I have locks that don't like certain machines.  The nipple just doesn't fit right in the t-handle and they'll pop open, particularly if you move the door a bit like shaking the machine.  So try another core first and then a completely different lock later.  I had an AP 6600 that I scrapped a while back.  Machine had seen better days but the locking bar was wore out so you could unlock it by simply pushing up on the door slightly.  So try playing with the door too to see if you can make the handle pop open.

[Randymire]

I’ve got private locks on all of my machines . But in your case I’d change the lock out just in case . 

[Southeast Treats]

Having machines keyed alike as you already do is a good choice, but having a private key is even better.  I agree with Chris that you probably have a worn lock or latch on that machine, and swapping cores may solve the problem for now.  But investing in a registered lock and key is a good long term decision.  I have Medeco, and about once a year I find that those locks have prevented some ne'er-do-well from breaking into machines that I thought were in good safe locations.  Last instance a bank of three machines in a factory breakroom where all three cores were damaged and had to be replaced, but the visitors did not get into any of the machines.  It's a worthwhile investment.

[ABCVending]

I had a sneaky thief skimming cash out of a couple beverage machines we had in an apartment complex - wasn't tracking the cash/inventory close at the account but for months, things seemed off....

Finally came in for service one week and found one of the locks screwed up - it was offset and would not accept the key.  This time both machines were completely cleaned out, suspect he/she was using a tubular pick and finally screwed it up and couldn't get it back to center.

Fixed that with T-handle hasp covers and Abloy puck locks - no problems since

[NYCandyMaN]

so.. let me add my 2 cents into this, only bc i have to deal with so many abandoned and stolen machines where I am, all these so called registered and non registered locks are a bunch of BS, medeco and so on, every company makes locks, the principal is the same, 6, 7, or 8 pin, think of it as a car that has the same body, but a different engine on the inside live a v4 vs v6 vs v8 and so on, with that said, the locks you see on eBay that are super cheap are actually better and cheaper than the high brand ones, sure they may be made of different metals and stuff, but down to the core, they are basically the same, and now with that said, all it takes is some bozo that's super curious, to buy a pic and have a field day with anyone of our machines, and the worst is, you'll never catch em, until they screw up. simply do what i do, when some asks a dumb question, just say "the computer and tracker inside let me know everything in and out of the machine" simple! its got a cam? "sure it does", gee i wonder where it is? "don't worry about it, you cant see it, but it can sure see you:)"

i will not disclose anymore info on these locks, as we can all be at risk from some bozo reading this post, so better safe than sorry. Buy the locks on eBay, i bought 20 for under $120 i am happy with them. 

[orsd]

8 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

so.. let me add my 2 cents into this, only bc i have to deal with so many abandoned and stolen machines where I am, all these so called registered and non registered locks are a bunch of BS, medeco and so on, every company makes locks, the principal is the same, 6, 7, or 8 pin, think of it as a car that has the same body, but a different engine on the inside live a v4 vs v6 vs v8 and so on, with that said, the locks you see on eBay that are super cheap are actually better and cheaper than the high brand ones, sure they may be made of different metals and stuff, but down to the core, they are basically the same, and now with that said, all it takes is some bozo that's super curious, to buy a pic and have a field day with anyone of our machines, and the worst is, you'll never catch em, until they screw up. simply do what i do, when some asks a dumb question, just say "the computer and tracker inside let me know everything in and out of the machine" simple! its got a cam? "sure it does", gee i wonder where it is? "don't worry about it, you cant see it, but it can sure see you:)"

i will not disclose anymore info on these locks, as we can all be at risk from some bozo reading this post, so better safe than sorry. Buy the locks on eBay, i bought 20 for under $120 i am happy with them. 

Your understanding of locks and physical security is lacking, at best.

There are two types of attack, destructive and non-destructive.

Destructive attacks damage the lock or machine. Examples include drilling, cutting, and popping using impact.

This is why the physical strength of a lock matters. And as such, material and design matter. A cheap ebay lock is usually soft brass. A Medeco is built out of more robust materials, and it has hardened steel pins in the face to resist a drilling attack.

Non destructive attacks do not damage the lock or machine. This involves three different types of attack: unauthorized key, picking, or bypass.

Unauthorized key is when someone else has a key to your machine. This can be a concern with cheap eBay or especially shipping locks, as they may only build a couple codes. The chances of someone else having your key is higher. A registered code means that you get assigned a unique code, which cuts down or eliminates copies of your key floating around out there. A company like LSI or Medeco go a step further, and use a unique key shape, and patent it. By doing this, they control key blanks, making it even harder for unauthorized copies to be made. 

Picking is self explanatory. Here, a high security lock will incoporate many security features. Tighter tolerances mean that a lock is harder to pick. Security pins add significantly to the difficulty of picking. For tubular locks, a premium product will use varying strength pins to prevent the cheap tubular lock picks from working. For disc detainer locks like Abloys, the unique nature requires specialty tools. And for Medecos, they use not only security pins that need to be set to the proper height like a standard key tumbler (house) lock, but also the pins need to be rotated to the correct angle by the key, which adds another dimension to the difficulty of picking. A good lock like a Medeco is extremely difficult to pick.

Bypassing is similar to picking, but instead of manipulating pins, the goal is to find design flaws that can be exploited to quickly open a lock. Is the back of the keyway open? It might be vulnerable to having a long pick stuck inside and being used to directly pull the locking latch back. A quality lock should be well designed and should not have any flaws of this nature. A cheap lock might.

At the end of the day, a quality lock is worth the money. And, you can always order keyed alike locks and new keys, as they are made to order.

 

[tblake05]

7 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

...i will not disclose anymore info on these locks, as we can all be at risk from some bozo reading this post, so better safe than sorry. Buy the locks on eBay, i bought 20 for under $120 i am happy with them. 

20 locks for 120.00 puts them about 6.00 each.  LSI Depot has their cobra7 locks for 8.00 with a registered code and probably better material.  If I rekey everything, I'll more than likely end up with cobra7's, or the abloy though they are more expensive.

We are due on location today, last time I hid a piece of wrapper inside the door which will fall if it opens.  I'll see if its still in place when I get there.  I'll also bring a different lock in case mine is worn out.

I'll report back my findings.  Thanks for the info everyone! 

[tc vending]

10 hours ago, tblake05 said:

20 locks for 120.00 puts them about 6.00 each.  LSI Depot has their cobra7 locks for 8.00 with a registered code and probably better material.  If I rekey everything, I'll more than likely end up with cobra7's, or the abloy though they are more expensive.

We are due on location today, last time I hid a piece of wrapper inside the door which will fall if it opens.  I'll see if its still in place when I get there.  I'll also bring a different lock in case mine is worn out.

I'll report back my findings.  Thanks for the info everyone! 

Cobra 7 locks are pretty good with your own key. Maybe not for a location with high risk locations. I just left my old locks in box did nothing with them.

[NYCandyMaN]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:40 AM, orsd said:

Your understanding of locks and physical security is lacking, at best.

There are two types of attack, destructive and non-destructive.

Destructive attacks damage the lock or machine. Examples include drilling, cutting, and popping using impact.

This is why the physical strength of a lock matters. And as such, material and design matter. A cheap ebay lock is usually soft brass. A Medeco is built out of more robust materials, and it has hardened steel pins in the face to resist a drilling attack.

Non destructive attacks do not damage the lock or machine. This involves three different types of attack: unauthorized key, picking, or bypass.

Unauthorized key is when someone else has a key to your machine. This can be a concern with cheap eBay or especially shipping locks, as they may only build a couple codes. The chances of someone else having your key is higher. A registered code means that you get assigned a unique code, which cuts down or eliminates copies of your key floating around out there. A company like LSI or Medeco go a step further, and use a unique key shape, and patent it. By doing this, they control key blanks, making it even harder for unauthorized copies to be made. 

Picking is self explanatory. Here, a high security lock will incoporate many security features. Tighter tolerances mean that a lock is harder to pick. Security pins add significantly to the difficulty of picking. For tubular locks, a premium product will use varying strength pins to prevent the cheap tubular lock picks from working. For disc detainer locks like Abloys, the unique nature requires specialty tools. And for Medecos, they use not only security pins that need to be set to the proper height like a standard key tumbler (house) lock, but also the pins need to be rotated to the correct angle by the key, which adds another dimension to the difficulty of picking. A good lock like a Medeco is extremely difficult to pick.

Bypassing is similar to picking, but instead of manipulating pins, the goal is to find design flaws that can be exploited to quickly open a lock. Is the back of the keyway open? It might be vulnerable to having a long pick stuck inside and being used to directly pull the locking latch back. A quality lock should be well designed and should not have any flaws of this nature. A cheap lock might.

At the end of the day, a quality lock is worth the money. And, you can always order keyed alike locks and new keys, as they are made to order.

 

send me 2 of each, i guarantee that my ebay locks are no different to the name brand locks when i do what i need to do, a name is just a name in my book, prove me wrong

 

[tc vending]

2 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

send me 2 of each, i guarantee that my ebay locks are no different to the name brand locks when i do what i need to do, a name is just a name in my book, prove me wrong

 

This is bad advice buying locks on eBay. Having your own key as opposed to some lock with many keys off ebay makes your machine less secure. Good locks are close to your ebay prices anyway with your own key code. If you are a new vendor looking at this site don't try to be cheap in dumb area's where a little money spent would be wise.

[NYCandyMaN]

20 minutes ago, tc vending said:

This is bad advice buying locks on eBay. Having your own key as opposed to some lock with many keys off ebay makes your machine less secure. Good locks are close to your ebay prices anyway with your own key code. If you are a new vendor looking at this site don't try to be cheap in dumb area's where a little money spent would be wise.

i am definitely not new, i am in the worst part of NYC and i haven't had any issues with my locks, if you think that looks matter, go ahead get the shiny new toy, ill stick with the old rusty ones no brand name ones. my ebay locks will out perform your brand name locks, prove me wrong! 

 

send me 2 of each, i guarantee that my ebay locks are no different to the name brand locks when i do what i need to do, a name is just a name in my book, prove me wrong. ill even make a video on this if need to be.

if you have the right tools for the job, believe me when i say this.... "nothing will stop me!" 

 

a name is nothing but a name, i learned that the hard way early in life, i will prove it to you!

go look at your Lexus and your Toyota, or Dodge and Chevy, SAME ENGINE, DIFFERENT BODY, why? companies need to make more $$$ bc one brand doesn't sell as well as many do, it gives people an option, and an ability to make a decision, what they don't know, is that its the same thing on the inside. same thing with the locks, sure they may look different, but inside they are all the same, the key might be round or flat, or a special design, but the principal  is the same, its a lock, you turn, you open, simple.

ps: please leave the attitude elsewhere, this is a serious matter, as it does and will affect many vendors, jokes ok

[AngryChris]

18 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

same thing with the locks, sure they may look different, but inside they are all the same, the key might be round or flat, or a special design, but the principal  is the same, its a lock, you turn, you open, simple.

I'd say about 50% of the posts you make lead me to believe that you are actually just a troll.  I'm not even joking.

[tblake05]

Sorry I asked....

 

To follow up, after I swapped the lock, no issues.  Must have just been a warn out lock.  We'll roll with it for right now and save up for modeco.

[NYCandyMaN]

On 4/18/2021 at 3:46 PM, AngryChris said:

I'd say about 50% of the posts you make lead me to believe that you are actually just a troll.  I'm not even joking.

its ok FULL MOON, i forgive you for being naïve.... you will learn one day, and you'll be sorry that you didn't listen to the troll!

[AngryChris]

44 minutes ago, NYCandyMan said:

its ok FULL MOON, i forgive you for being naïve.... you will learn one day, and you'll be sorry that you didn't listen to the troll!

I'll be sorry that I invested in quality American-made equipment and high quality/security locks?

[NYCandyMaN]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:29 PM, AngryChris said:

I'll be sorry that I invested in quality American-made equipment and high quality/security locks?

take it however you want, and i completely understand that yes "THE  AMERICAN MADE IN USA" is best, but lets be honest here, your Ford, Jeep and Harleys are no longer made in USA as they say they are, read the fine print "ASSEMBLED IN USA" not "MADE IN USA" same goes for these locks, i can put the name of BUGATI on that lock and sell it for 10x of what its worth! 10, 20 years ago, i would've agreed with you, but not these days, sorry buddy, truth hurts.

[AngryChris]

2 hours ago, NYCandyMan said:

take it however you want, and i completely understand that yes "THE  AMERICAN MADE IN USA" is best, but lets be honest here, your Ford, Jeep and Harleys are no longer made in USA as they say they are, read the fine print "ASSEMBLED IN USA" not "MADE IN USA" same goes for these locks, i can put the name of BUGATI on that lock and sell it for 10x of what its worth! 10, 20 years ago, i would've agreed with you, but not these days, sorry buddy, truth hurts.

The truth is that you gave an absolutely terrible analogy.

[NYCandyMaN]

On 5/12/2021 at 12:40 PM, AngryChris said:

The truth is that you gave an absolutely terrible analogy.

keep reading until it sinks in...