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RVV500 not cooling sufficient


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Hey guys, relative new to the vending scene. Started back in February 2021. Have learned plenty along the way. Have to say it is not as passive as it seems :)

One of my RVV500 is not cooling enough it will go down to 50F and stay there.  Fan kicks on and panel around the fan is cold. Set point is at 40 even tried lowering to 37 to see if it helps with no luck. Never had a compressor fail on my since the start of my journey, could the mean the compressor is having issues? Have not tried connecting it directly will try this next. If there's any suggestions I would appreciate it.

Edited by royalrey
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There is absolutely nothing passive about vending though that is why most people get into it. Your evaporator is probably frozen and if you see only frost where the fins of the evaporator are then the machine needs to be unplugged to defrost it. Do this immediately as a compressor that runs forever will fail.  Then if there are no air gaps that caused the frozen evaporator you will need a refrigeration-certified technician to recharge it.

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11 hours ago, AZVendor said:

There is absolutely nothing passive about vending though that is why most people get into it. Your evaporator is probably frozen and if you see only frost where the fins of the evaporator are then the machine needs to be unplugged to defrost it. Do this immediately as a compressor that runs forever will fail.  Then if there are no air gaps that caused the frozen evaporator you will need a refrigeration-certified technician to recharge it.

When you find a tech, If they say they're simply going to "top it off",  find another tech.  Any tech worth their salt will locate and repair a leak before adding refrigerant to the system.  Leaks don't fix themselves and any unit with a leak needs to be recovered, vacuumed, leak repaired, filter/drier replaced and recharged.  Otherwise you will be paying them to recharge it again (or worse ) in the near future. 

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I disagree.  In all my years of repairs I found that most machines that are low on freon, and especially the ones that are untapped, do not have leaks that are worthwhile to find. This even applied to many that were already tapped when it was obvious that the tap was an old one. My advice to every customer was to tap it and recharge it and then wait to see if the problem reoccurs. My rule of thumb was if it leaked out in less than 6 months then the leak could probably be found. The longer it takes beyond 6 months the smaller the leak and harder to find. I rarely had one leak down again in less than a year.

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I agree with azvendor here, especially now.  Refrigeration work has gotten so expensive, it might only cost $100 difference between a repair and brand new deck.  If you can get someone to add a valve and recharge it cheap (less than $150 initially, $100 for recharge), then it's probably worth it to recharge and run it as long as possible.  If the compressor fails, replace it with a new deck or a working used one.  I don't know if azvendor agrees with my rationale but things are different right now

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On 9/13/2021 at 1:11 PM, AZVendor said:

I disagree.  In all my years of repairs I found that most machines that are low on freon, and especially the ones that are untapped, do not have leaks that are worthwhile to find. This even applied to many that were already tapped when it was obvious that the tap was an old one. My advice to every customer was to tap it and recharge it and then wait to see if the problem reoccurs. My rule of thumb was if it leaked out in less than 6 months then the leak could probably be found. The longer it takes beyond 6 months the smaller the leak and harder to find. I rarely had one leak down again in less than a year.

From a cost standpoint, I understand that often it's cheaper in the short-term to kick the can down the road. It's also cheaper not to replace your oil filter when changing the oil on your vehicle but that do  If a system is leaking, the freon will need to be recharged again, there are no other options. When I got my refrigeration cert, we were warned in no uncertain terms that refilling a leaking system without repairing the leak is the same a knowingly venting freon into the atmosphere and subject to very stiff penalties including fines and voiding the certificate.  obviously, this operator isn't held to those standards and can say " I didn't know".   

AZ - In reading your posts, I most respect your tendency to urge people to do a job right the first time.  Respectfully, in this instance, you seem to lean more to taking the less expensive route and hoping the leak goes away (we both know they don't).   While it will save a little cost a little time in labor today,  I don't see how this leads to anything but another service call for the same issue in the coming days, weeks or months.  The operator will end up paying as much or more once the unit is finally either repaired or replaced.

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Like I said, if it doesn't leak down in less than 6 months the leak can be difficult to impossible to find.  Most (95%) of the recharges I did resulted in 1 or more years of use, especially in units that were still sealed.

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That's not a fair comparison mike.  An oil change is a necessary preventative maintenance procedure to potentially avoid thousands of dollars in damage. Recharging a system is a repair as there is already "damage." The question is.. should you pay maybe $100 for a cheap repair, almost $300 for a "proper" repair, or 400-500+ for a brand new system?  

With the shortage in labor, a proper repair might cost even more than a new unit.  Evaporators may not even be obtainable at times.  Even new units are hate to get.  Then what?

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My point regarding the oil filter is that, in order to add an actual service stem w/ shrader valve, you have to recover the freon,, replace the drier/filter,  pull a vacuum, pressure check and then recharge.  By the time you're to this point, finding a leak is generally fairly easy.  Not repairing a leak can cause issues like continuing to leak freon into someone's office or breakroom (vending locations generally are not a fan of this)  as well as the chance of pulling moisture into your refrigeration system which will cause clogs and other issues or shorten the life of the compressor.  

Piercing access valves (aka saddle valves) are not meant to stay on any piece of equipment as a permanent means of access.  They are known to be a source of leaks.  Every licensed refrig tech knows this.  If a tech wants to add a saddle valve to a system and just squirt some freon in, there is little doubt that he/she will be back to squirt some more in down the road.  That is one way to get a repeat customer, but not a happy one.  Especially when you're charging them again for freon that should not have leaked back out.

I contend that the cheaper repair is often not the most logical one but I totally understand that sometimes an operator only has enough capital for the cheap fix, but they will very likely have the same issue or worse and they will have to face it at some point.  Sometimes your hands are tied.  If I were only working on my own equipment and had an issue like this, I might go the easy route and just know that I'm going to be babysitting that unit until I resolve to repair it correctly: however, working on someone else's equipment, you have to try to get it done right the first time.

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45 minutes ago, Vendo Mike said:

My point regarding the oil filter is that, in order to add an actual service stem w/ shrader valve, you have to recover the freon,, replace the drier/filter,  pull a vacuum, pressure check and then recharge.

Not necessarily. Use a pinch off tool to pinch off the process stub. Cut the end off the stub and braze a Schrader on. Unpinch the tube and you are done. No need to recover evacuate and recharge.

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10 minutes ago, Vendo Mike said:

Fair enough.  How do you ensure that you've removed condensibles (sp?) from the system?  If the leak is on a suction line, it's pretty likely you have pulled moisture into the system.  

Run the system with a gauge set on the low side. If the pressures are still positive (albeit low) atmosphereic gases and moisture should not have been able to get in.

If the compressor is pulling a vacuum then you can assume moisture has entered. At that point gonna have to recover the pittance left and pull a vacuum and evacuate.

Honestly with removable deck machines I primarily do patch type repairs. Recharges simple component changes etc. Any major work (ie bust out the torches and start brazing) I just grab a rebuilt deck.

Now for built in systems yes I agree find the leak and do it right. Even then I’ll probably recharge the first time and throw in dye in case it’s a slow leak.

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Sure

18 hours ago, AngryChris said:

Mike, this is a serious question. Can I buy a new deck for a 576/540?  

 

Given a serial number, I can find out if we have something to fit.  We currently only produce the deck that fits 621/721/821 but can retrofit to older equipment.   You might try a local distributor for one as you might see an outrageous lead time right now from my parts dept. 

SandenVendo (800) 344-7216

Refer deck, R134a - V21  - 1192401-1

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