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Frozen Machines


Vendo Mike

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I've been asked to help gauge the market for a new frozen, spiral style vendor.  I can't think of a better group to ask.  We're looking determine whether there's a market as well as preferred equipment sizes. config.   We have a line of snack / cold machines but at this time, no frozen.    Any feedback would be appreciated. 

Prefer spiral/pusher style tray or carousel  vending system-

Preferred capacity - 

Preferred amount of selections - 

Cabinet size preference -

Any special features?.

 

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I got rid of my wheel of death machine for cold food and replaced it with a spiral vendor.  The carousel had a lot of customer issues with doors jamming, and I felt limited in adding selections.  Almost impossible to track telemetry data and forget about good date rotation.  When I did ice cream I was using fastcorp because of the chest freezers, if I went back into that I might rethink using frozen glassfronts because of the better marketing, but what I had was working well.  Frozen food items I think would be better in a GF with spirals for marketing visibility. 

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I appreciate the feedback.  Please keep it coming. I need to establish the market.  In many cases vendors will avoid food machines unless a really good location requires them.  Do you see the same issues here?

There have been several versions of frozen machines out there.  The AP320 was a spiral machine that could be refer or frozen.  I'm trying to recall any carousel style frozen equipment.  

I chuckled at "wheel of death".   The 430, 431 and 432 could be fun to get set correctly.  If the stop pin wasn't adjusted correctly or the switches and linkage on the consumer doors were damaged or out of square, they could be a huge pain. 

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20 minutes ago, Vendo Mike said:

In many cases vendors will avoid food machines unless a really good location requires them.  Do you see the same issues here?

That's very true, I only have a few cold food machines where I find they are warranted.  I have been on and off the food issue over the years.  The narrow markups and short shelf life, along with other spoilage issues, make it difficult.  Not to mention the high cost of new machines, or even good used machines.  I also have to have storage freezers, and product sourcing is not easy.  Trying to keep a good selection at prices the market will bear is tough.  All of my current machines have at least one drink shelf, as I can market higher end selections such as RTD coffee, energy drinks, and juices that won't go in my regular drink machines for whatever reason, and those sales help make the overall machine more productive.  For a really busy food location I would have a food only machine, but so far my locations have not justified that.  I also provide condiment packages at my food locations and I would like to find some type of add on to place those right on the machine instead of a random tray somewhere in the room.

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What we are specifically looking at right now though is a frozen machine.  Ice Cream, frozen dinners, etc...  Can you tell me how many or what percentage of your machines are for frozen products?   If 1% of an operator's equipment is frozen, that doesn't really equate to enough of a market to pursue.  If the number is closer to 20%, maybe it's worth chasing.  

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42 minutes ago, Vendo Mike said:

What we are specifically looking at right now though is a frozen machine.  Ice Cream, frozen dinners, etc...  Can you tell me how many or what percentage of your machines are for frozen products?   If 1% of an operator's equipment is frozen, that doesn't really equate to enough of a market to pursue.  If the number is closer to 20%, maybe it's worth chasing.  

Vendo Mike, I think a machine that is a glass front that has the versatility to run food and drinks has a place in vending. I view a food machine as expensive options for large accounts I probably would use an AMS that was flexible between food and drink options.

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Mike, you need to study all of the weaknesses with the AP320, AMS, Crane 455, USI frozen, Fastcorp, etc and the build something that has none of those weaknesses.  Its a tall hill to climb.

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There are two machines on the market that I'm all for.  The V21 and the AMS snack (ambient or refrigerated equivalents).  Having said that, I would like to offer frozen items but only if I have a dual temperature zone.  A location big enough for a full food machine is probably big enough for a micro market, and a location too small for a micro market probably isn't big enough for food.  So that leads to mostly special circumstances locations that don't have the security for a market but have the volume.  In that instance, I think a dual zone option might be the best option.

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However, dual zones, where one is frozen, will only work in a refrigerated/frozen cabinet.  There is no good way to engineer a machine with ambient and frozen products in one cabinet. National tried that and their small combo machines were abysmal. 

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As far as frozen, my experience with ice cream was divided.  There are great markups but you have to be in the right locations.  Service also requires the ability to transport frozen.  I'm not seeing a big market for frozen.   Frozen food also requires a microwave on site.  I seem to recall someone (maybe USI) tried to build a machine with a microwave built in a few years ago, it never took off.  While switching to frozen for food vending (vs cold) would extend shelf life and reduce spoilage, I wonder if customers would be attracted to frozen.  All the reach in coolers coming on market right now are going the other way with fresh food (another difficult market). 

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In my opinion first in first out for food. No way would I ever want the wheel. The AP320 was nice when it worked but expensive when things went wrong. The refrigeration deck was super heavy and took 2 people to carry it. I'm completely out of food altogether now and don't have an account mandating it so I get by without it. I would consider buying one if it made sense. It would be nice if you could use existing 721 parts but I doubt any of the parts could be transferred other than maybe a display screen. 

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Thinking about this some more, for frozen entrees you would need to have some wide and tall slots for boxed frozen dinners or other large containers.  A spiral machine with operator adjustable slot widths would give the most flexibility for planograms.   Sliding motor mounts on the back, adjustable dividers and the ability to add or subtract motors from a shelf, pair or unpair as needed. 

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This is all great info. Please keep it coming. 

AZ - I am in total agreement, the weaknesses of the AP320, NV455 and all their counterparts  are at the front of our minds.  

Most likely, our unit would be spiral based but we do have some other vending mechanism options such as conveyer and hanging hook styles.   The carousel style "wheel of death" is not really in the plans at all for many reasons.   We can "pair" any 2 motors on a tray and adjust/remove dividers as necessary so that one could offer products that fit into a single facing or a 2' burrito that spans across half a shelf.   We are also deciding whether a simple (optional)  elevator system would be necessary to avoid damaging products.   

I agree with AZ that a dual zone unit would which includes frozen would have to be refrigerated or at least "chilled".   Our G-Snack line can be a combo unit but it is ambient and refrigerated using adjustable baffles.  All shelves below the baffles are held at below 38, and everything above is a fairly chilly "ambient".  In actuality, the upper section is chilled staying in the mid to upper 50's. 

Regarding frozen entrees, microwaves are already in most breakrooms anyway and relatively inexpensive.  


How many selections would a cabinet need to offer so that it makes sense to place  but isn't so large that it's not feasible to keep it filled.  What is the tipping point?  

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Mike, when I brought up having a dual zone machine, my thought process was this:

Some locations do really well with sales but still aren't enough to justify food.  These locations are known to be very loyal and will pay for themselves over and over again for years.  What can I do to offer them something more without shooting myself in the foot?  If I can offer frozen meals, even if they don't sell all that well, but I can also sell refrigerated beverages and maybe some fresh food items at higher markups, then that may be enough to justify adding a machine.  To me, investing in a frozen/combo machine is all about adding a value to the service and not so much about profitability.  I want to make my profits from soda and snack sales.  But it's really nice knowing I don't have to worry about spoilage when there's a frozen option.  A fully frozen-only machine just might be too much for most locations and irrelevant for locations that already justify a micro market.

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Chris - This is exactly the kind of conversation I was hoping for.  We need to understand the operator's mindset and challenges.   Keep it  coming.

To be clear, does this mean you would lean more towards a refer/frozen combo unit over fully frozen?

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To answer your question, I believe a refer/frozen combo is better than a fully frozen machine.  I haven't done frozen at all.  The only experience I have with it was with a fastcorp machine from 13 years ago that a coworker referred to as "Monica."  I was employed back then (self employed since 2010) and I didn't see the big deal but I understand that they did sell a decent amount of icecream out of it.  To be totally clear, I think the best thing that could be offered would be a machine that was able to convert zones.  I don't know the limitations of such a machine but if you could make at least one section convertable then that would be ideal.  So if you could do half frozen and half refrigerated, or all refrigerated for example (or all frozen), that would be ideal.  If that's not practical for design purposes, then a permanent half/half setup is better to me than fully frozen.  Even being able to adjust the size of the frozen/refrigerated section would be helpful.

At this point, I don't feel like I am having a problem as an operator except with getting product.  I feel like the problem is with the locations.  They want to keep their employees as happy as possible and many of them have been asking me (and probably many other vendors) to offer food because they want to keep their employees from leaving the building and/or allowing them to enjoy their break without having to commute to get lunch.  So in that sense, I am trying to provide a solution to keep them happy.  In turn, I keep my prices up and I try to be on-par with the market and I never want to be known as a low-priced guy.  To me, I don't care if I break even on food as long as I keep turning over dollars over and over again.  There are different needs for every business which is why being able to convert a machine is ideal, but a dual zone setup by itself (even if not convertable) allows me to provide different things depending on their needs.  A fully frozen machine means I can't sell beverages or "fresh" food at all, so I think it's a total no-go and I would probably never even consider buying one personally but that's just me.  I'm still a little guy compared to the big known companies out there.

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On 10/1/2021 at 10:29 AM, Vendo Mike said:

 " I'm trying to recall any carousel style frozen equipment"

Check your companies history Vendo had the Visi-Vend which was a carousel type of unit in the late 60's or early 70's. Which was available Frozen or refrigerated. And maybe even in a heated version.

 

On 10/1/2021 at 10:29 AM, Vendo Mike said:

 

 

Edited by venddoctor
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55 minutes ago, AZVendor said:

I'm not sure that Visi-Vends should be in the discussion but they did exist as I had a couple of them back in the old days and they had their weaknesses too.

Agreed but Vendo Mike mentioned he couldn't think of any Carousel frozen machines so I thought I would mention them.

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1 hour ago, AngryChris said:

Hi venddoctor.  Join the discussion!

Hi Chris - Long time no talk, I don't come around here much anymore since I am no longer in the traditional vending side of the business. I've been out of it to long to have much insight on frozen vending any longer.

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54 minutes ago, venddoctor said:

Hi Chris - Long time no talk, I don't come around here much anymore since I am no longer in the traditional vending side of the business. I've been out of it to long to have much insight on frozen vending any longer.

Any insight is better than no insight.  There's only a handful of us discussing this topic as it is.

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