Summit Vending Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Hello All, Well here is my issue.....as most of you know I have just started my full line business about 5 months ago. Before I purchased my full line equipment in July I bought 64 1-800 machines out of California. Well now I'm considering not going into bulk and selling all 64 bulk machines. Over the past few weeks I have been meeting with a number of people and It looks as though I'm about to secure some pretty substantial full line accounts which will require daily fills and also bi-weekly fills. I'm quite torn though as going into bulk was always a part of my bigger plan and now I'm starting to rethink this avenue due to the numbers I have seen from my full line side and the bulk numbers I have seen here.One full line machine on location for one week would basically be what I would pull(national average) for the entire month if all 64 bulk machines were on the street. I'm at a crossroad here and now must make up my mind if I'm going straight full line or continue with my original plan and do both. I realize some of the bulk veterans are starting to diversify and looking into full line this is why I'm bringing this to all of you. Any advice or comments are welcome. Thanks, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-man422 Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Brian, this is a dilemma and for good reason. The full line accounts will take more time but bring in more $. I myself am looking into full line. The reason I started with bulk was because it was cheaper and it let me get my feet wet. It is a great way to "learn the ropes" of vending. If I were you I would sell most of the 1800's and focus on full line. You will have a few bulk machines in case a situation arises where you can locate one but it sounds like the #s from full line machines is what you're after. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summit Vending Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Gabe, Thanks for the advice. I have been pondering this for the last couple days now but cant seem to make a decision one way or the other. Thanks again. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Coast Vend LLC Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Brian, Like myself, I started with bulk and as I continue to grow, I see opportunities to place full-line machines. I have all my bulk machine out there working very well for me so it's a little easier for me to say, do both. If you haven't placed those 1800's yet you should sell some of them, and keep some, for those locations where you may want to have a small bulk machine. Not every location can handle full-line equipment. If you sell them all, you will kick yourself later when the opportunity comes along. Just my thoughts. Let's talk off line if you want. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T BIRD Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I agree with Gabe and Gary. Keep a few of them Brian and sell the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedk Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Brian: Congratulations on finding some big accounts to work with. As I see it the dilema is boils down to do I keep the bulk machines for a while or not. If you have the room, don't need the money from the sale and space is not a problem you can hold onto them for a while. If you you don't sell them. You can always buy more bulk machines. If you secure the new accounts, have you considered a person or employee to back you up. If you need daily fills these accounts will be more time restrictive than bulk accounts or other full line accounts you may have. If you get sick, or want a holiday you will need someone to look after things for you. This may not be a problem to start but you will need to consider how to cover yourself. Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Brian, We have both bulk and full line. We started with bulk and then moved into full line. What Gabe said above is exactly what happened with us - we started with bulk to get our feet wet. Once we started doing it we liked it and expanded. Personally I think it is good to stay with both - assuming you have the time. While full line makes a lot of $, there are also a lot of issues you have to deal with. Machines break, you will need a large vehicle to service the route, you will need a large amount of storage space, spoilage issues are a much bigger deal, etc. Also, depending on where you live, you'll now need to deal with things like sales tax, etc. I don't say this to discourage you - like I said, we have both. Before you give up the bulk, do the full line for a while to make sure all of these issues don't drive you crazy. Ted also brings up good points with getting sick, needing to take a vacation etc. Bottom line hold on to both as long as you can. If you decide full line is for you, *then* sell your bulk. That way you can always go back to something you are comfortable with if full line doesn't work out. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserri Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Brian, What I'm about to say is strictly my opinion. Sell your bulk machines. I started out in bulk because it was easier and cheaper to get into. At one point I had well over 600 machines out there collecting quarters. My goal was to live off the income from them but even though I did for a while, it never was as much as I wanted or expected for the amount of time I had to devote. You may have read a thread I wrote some time back entitled "Lost my Mojo!". That was the beginning of my decent from bulk vending. Since that time, I knew I still wanted to work for myself and was looking more closely at full size beverage machines. I found plenty of opportunity to place both beverage and snack machines but didn't have the capital to actually purchase anything so I had to pass on them. That all changed last year when I was finally in a position to purchase a coke machine for a location. It is a small location and doesn't gross that much but what it does gross represented what a large chunk of my bulk locations grossed. I was beginning to fall for the full line bug. I found another location and placed a combo machine. I did the first weekly service this past weekend and when I pulled that stack of dollars from the machine I knew I was done with bulk. In fact, just the change that was in the coin box far exceeded what my best bulk single location does in a month. I generated that much money in only 1 week with about 30 minutes of my time, (excluding the time I spent installing and stocking the machine initially.) With the price of gas what it is, I can no longer justify spending my time driving from place to place all day collecting $7.00 to $10.00 in quarters. I'm going forward with full line and shucking bulk. My advice is to do the same. You are already way ahead of me in terms of experience in full line so you know what is involved. You know how much work it is so I don't need to tell you that. You already know whether or not it is something you'll enjoy and you already know what kind of time you need to devote and what kind of money you can get out of it. I'm sure that if you get into bulk as well, you will soon tire of it and wonder why you are working so hard for those few quarters. Once again, this is only my opinion. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 ack, Brian, sorry I misread your post. I didn't realize you were already doing full line. I agree with Steve - sell your bulk. My point was to make sure that you could handle full line, but you obviously can Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T BIRD Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Boy oh boy.......great reading and food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summit Vending Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Hello All, I must say I appreciate and respect everyones opinons and advice. I will look to sell all of my bulk machines here in the coming weeks(not sure if I will be able to find a buyer in this market). I guess where the problem arose was I had a plan and wanted to stick with it and I got hung up on not letting the idea of bulk go. Numbers dont lie and I'm already on my way with full line so I will stick with what works considering everything that has been discussed here today. Thanks again to all of you for everything, you have made this decision a little easier. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philo Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Steve: Did moving into racks change the equation for you at all? Are they worth the time and effort in your opinion? Reagrds, Philo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo Duck Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Long story: Back in 2001-2002 the man who operated the full size soda/snack machines at my day job was getting ready to retire. He was/is a fair person and we agreed on the going rate ( at the time 60% of gross) for me to purchase his entire business. His operation consisted of approx. 60 full size machines machines in around 22 locations, mostly Dixie Narco and AP. This was the cream from around 100 machines he had earlier in his career. In the ramp up to me buying his business I would run his routes with him and we talked for many hours about everything soda/snack related. He had run this business for many years and was very efficient at everything that he did. Just before he retired someone heard he was selling and approached him offering 75%, I was unwilling to match this figure so the deal fell through. After this came a perion of introspection in which I examined the reasons for wanting to be self employed, ( I have a really good day job ). For me the number one reason to be self employed was time off / flexible hours. While the retiring guy made good money, he was tied to a schedule almost as much as I. His best accounts he serviced more than once a week which meant that if he wanted to take more than a couple of days off then someone had to cover for him. My goal is to have big chunks of time to travel and enjoy life so I decided that soda/snack vending was not for me. So I started a bulk vending business and working toward full time self-employment. After dipping my toes into both worlds these are what I see as the advantages and disadvantages of soda/snack versus bulk: 1. Capital, it will take similar amounts of capital to generate approx. the same income, but bulk can be done in much smaller increments. 2. Overhead, Soda/snack vending requires a dedicated vehicle and once you attain any volume you will start to need a warehouse or double garage sized area to stage machines and product. If you're going to have the bottlers deliver then it must be in an industrial area. In bulk your current vehicle and a closet or a bedroom will work for a long time. 3. Locating, A well serviced soda/snack machine gets kicked out MUCH more rarely than a bulk machine so once you have your locations there is much less worry about getting the boot. In bulk you're going to be replacing10-20% of you're machines every year from now untill eternity. Also in large metropolitian areas (like I live in), full size locations are constantly being bought and sold on Craigslist or the bullitin boards of distribution centers. 4.Technical problems, soda/snack , obivously it is much harder (compared to bulk) to maintain all the electronic components of the larger equipment like coin mechs, bill validators, compressors, drive motors etc... . Programming and parts interchangability can be a problem if you have more than one brand of machine. 5.Exit stragety, Soda/snack businesses can be sold as individual locations, routes or even the entire business, by contrast bulk businesses have a very hard time finding anyone to pay for the value that the owner has generated by growing his business and operating it efficiently. 6. Moving equipment, moving soda/snack machines requires specialized equipment or hiring it out, which adds to costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guile Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Long story: Back in 2001-2002 the man who operated the full size soda/snack machines at my day job was getting ready to retire. He was/is a fair person and we agreed on the going rate ( at the time 60% of gross) for me to purchase his entire business. His operation consisted of approx. 60 full size machines machines in around 22 locations, mostly Dixie Narco and AP. This was the cream from around 100 machines he had earlier in his career. In the ramp up to me buying his business I would run his routes with him and we talked for many hours about everything soda/snack related. He had run this business for many years and was very efficient at everything that he did. Just before he retired someone heard he was selling and approached him offering 75%, I was unwilling to match this figure so the deal fell through. After this came a perion of introspection in which I examined the reasons for wanting to be self employed, ( I have a really good day job ). For me the number one reason to be self employed was time off / flexible hours. While the retiring guy made good money, he was tied to a schedule almost as much as I. His best accounts he serviced more than once a week which meant that if he wanted to take more than a couple of days off then someone had to cover for him. My goal is to have big chunks of time to travel and enjoy life so I decided that soda/snack vending was not for me. So I started a bulk vending business and working toward full time self-employment. After dipping my toes into both worlds these are what I see as the advantages and disadvantages of soda/snack versus bulk: 1. Capital, it will take similar amounts of capital to generate approx. the same income, but bulk can be done in much smaller increments. 2. Overhead, Soda/snack vending requires a dedicated vehicle and once you attain any volume you will start to need a warehouse or double garage sized area to stage machines and product. If you're going to have the bottlers deliver then it must be in an industrial area. In bulk your current vehicle and a closet or a bedroom will work for a long time. 3. Locating, A well serviced soda/snack machine gets kicked out MUCH more rarely than a bulk machine so once you have your locations there is much less worry about getting the boot. In bulk you're going to be replacing10-20% of you're machines every year from now untill eternity. Also in large metropolitian areas (like I live in), full size locations are constantly being bought and sold on Craigslist or the bullitin boards of distribution centers. 4.Technical problems, soda/snack , obivously it is much harder (compared to bulk) to maintain all the electronic components of the larger equipment like coin mechs, bill validators, compressors, drive motors etc... . Programming and parts interchangability can be a problem if you have more than one brand of machine. 5.Exit stragety, Soda/snack businesses can be sold as individual locations, routes or even the entire business, by contrast bulk businesses have a very hard time finding anyone to pay for the value that the owner has generated by growing his business and operating it efficiently. 6. Moving equipment, moving soda/snack machines requires specialized equipment or hiring it out, which adds to costs. Good post! I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I'm a newbie and have learned (at least I think) a LOT from this excellent website! With that being said, as I start my "Bulk" journey, I can't help but ponder this very thing (bulk vs full line). While at this time I can offer any meaning full advice on selling the bulk machines, I do feel (if it were me) selling may not be the best choice right now. If I were doing full line and having sucess with it, I would be thinking "I'm going to sell the bulk machines". The problem is...you might have to take a BEATING to get rid of them. I wouldn't want to give away anything (especially now), but it could take quite a while to get what your looking for (depending on how much that might be). If cash is VERY tight and your looking to buy more full line a.s.a.p., then obviously you do what needs to be done. From the post, it didn't seem it was a decision that needed to made quickly/urgently. Good luck either way. g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bravo Duck Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Oh I forgot, 7. Soda/snack requires a coin sorter/counter and a bill counter versus just a coin counter for bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summit Vending Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Tom, Thanks for the input I really do appreciate it. Full line does require more attention I can agree with you on that as I do daily fills. When I started in this business just 5 months ago my goal was simple, build a solid route and add to it until I felt I couldn't do anymore then stop. I'm only taking on as much as I feel I can do without having to hire anyone(keeping it simple). I do realize that this requires a major commitment from me in regards to time. In my opinion here is the one perk that makes it all worth it, I don't take orders from anyone but me(except from my wife....lol) as I determine my own future based on how hard I want to work for my end goal.If something goes wrong the only one to look at is the person in the mirror. All of us have different goals and outlooks and mine is very simple work less hours than a normal job and be comfortable in life financially. I don't have delusions of becoming a vending giant or living in a home the size of a football field. I just want to provide a comfortable environment for my family and myself and have some fun along the way while setting up a solid business I can hand down to my children. On a side note this is what makes this board so unique and ultimately priceless....we all have a common goal and that is to network with like minded individuals to build a financially sound vending business be it full line or bulk. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyssamma Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Tom, you don't necessarily need a coin counter We count our own - slow, but I just do it while watching TV. A friend of mine has a bank that does it for free. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-man422 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Good point Kevin, usually there is at least one bank in an area that has a coin counter. As I understand, it's free if you bank with them. Call around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith Vending Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I am glad also I found this thread. Jim and I are looking into full line. The Kinsley Inn ( a VERY Upscale hotel by us) wants us to put in 6 soda/snack machines (which we don't have yet) We are thinking this out and doing a lot of reading here. =0 Eve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T BIRD Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Good point Kevin, usually there is at least one bank in an area that has a coin counter. As I understand, it's free if you bank with them. Call around. It was not that way for me Gabe, much to my surprise. Commerce Bank had me stop that because it was only for personal use and not business use. I was happy to find Capital One which is very vendor friendly and business friendly if anyone is interested. They have a new small business program. Capital One lets me throw the coins loose in bags for deposit. ( obviously I will count them at home with a scale before depositing ) Right now I still roll them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Coast Vend LLC Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I use US Bank. They too are very vendor friendly. They take change in strong plastic bags, that they supply, free. It is the easiest deposits so far. I just weigh my coins, drop them in the bag, (each bag holds up to $1000) and drop them off. The amount is immediately deposited in to your account. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmartusc Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Brian, Have you sold your bulk machines yet? Mike N2 Vending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summit Vending Posted December 11, 2008 Author Share Posted December 11, 2008 Mike, Sorry for the delay, I was able to sell all of them. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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