anti-cubiclite Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hi Everybody. I'm a newbie. I've been lurking around here for a week. I came across an opportunity to buy an existing route of 21 machines. I want to get some opinions from seasoned veterans as to what to look out for when purchasing an existing route. Here is a rundown of the deal: 21 U-Turn 8s One key for all machines All bags, money holders, candy, and labels are included Annual gross income $4,500 - $5,500 Net income $3,000 -$4,000 Asking price: $3,800 or best offer Just doing a simple 3,800 divided by 21 is $180 per machine including candy so it sounds pretty good. Obviously, the main thing is to verify the numbers that the seller is stating are true. Can anyone provide a checklist of items you need to check out before purchasing a route? Also, Are U-Turns good machines? Thanks. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Gary, If his gross off 21 U Turn 8 select machines is only 5 grand then he has a lot of bad locations that need to be moved. If he has that many 8 select U Turns filled with candy then he probably has alot of machines full of stale candy that needs to be thrown out. You can't have 8 selections of candy in a machine only bringing in $20 a month. I wouldn't pay anywhere near what he is asking. Maybe a $2,000 tops and the machines had better be nice to pay that. If his cannisters are scratched and discolored plus locations that aren't making any money just isn't worth much. I like these machines in the right locations but these babies will cost you money each month not make you money in the wrong spots. Sounds like most of his are in the wrong spots. I'll bet he has a few making $40 to $50 and some only have maybe $5 to $10 a month in them so your losing more than that in bad candy. I'll bet this guy knows it and wants out bad. Shoot him a really low offer after looking at the machines and making sure they are still on location and decent machines. Maybe $1500 and figure on either relocating yourself or paying a locator to get those relocated for you. Personally, I wouldn't let a locator do it either or you'll likely end up losing more money and still having locations that can't support those machines. You'll need to get half the candy out of those machines and fill with product that won't go bad. You'll need to put in rubber balls, 1" caps, etc. and you'll need to buy more gumball wheels - a bunch of them. It will cost you $15 per wheel and you need like a min. of 3 per machine plus the one already in them. I'd buy 4 wheels per machine or another $60 per machine times 21 machines or $1200 in wheels. Spend it on new wheels or lose it in thrown out spoiled candy. Don't count on the candy being any good in his machines. Bet most of it is already bad. You'll need to place these machine in family locations with kids to sell toys in at least half those cannisters. You really need to also have some other smaller machines to mix with these when locating as an awful lot of places just can't support that 8 select machine. I like these machines and have them on my route as well. They have their advantages in the right spot. Getting the quarters out is a pain. Breaking down the machines to refill and get your money is a pain as all those cannisters and parts have to go somewhere and hopefully not the floor! Every cannister has to come off to refill and get those quarters out - you need a table close by or you're in trouble. Well, not meaning to come down so hard on this deal but his price is too high. Those machines can be purchased for $100 each off craigslist if you watch the ads. His numbers don't suggest his locations are worth paying for and probably worse than he is telling you. Hopefully these are the machines that have larger cannisters on top and smaller on the bottom. If the cannisters are all small on top as well then I'd just forget buying these machines anyway. You need the 8 selects with the bigger cannisters on top to have more room to fill with 1" capsules. Sorry for not being able to give you a better response here. nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_r_vending Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I agree with Nam i would either run away or offer a very low price, if he is telling you this is how much he is making(which sucks) then he is prob doing even less business, only thing I might do is to buy these machines at a cheap price, keep the good locations, and sell the machines to make some money for some better ones. IMO Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
statik27 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 As a noob myself, these 8 head u-turn machines just don't seem like a good starter machine. You have to have at least 8 products stocked just to fill them and not all of those products will work at every location, in fact a machine of that size will work at even fewer locations. My advice would be to buy one or two double head machines on the cheap off craigslist and locate them, you can fill them with candy for less then 50$ and you'll find out if you like this business before your looking for a big truck to carry all that product to locations. statik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Kelly, You should try an 8 select U Turn if you can find one for $50 to $100. They really will make you $50 to $100 a month in a decent location. I have one with only 3 candies in it and next service it's only gonna have two candies. lol They aren't my favorite machine to service either but I just look at them as vertical racks and fill with caps. No fuss no muss. nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 8 selections is overkill in most locations. Even my racks usually have "only" 5 selections (and a hoops of course). The Uturn people want newbies to believe that more selection will give more revenue - a very big misconception! I have been downgrading many 4 selects to 2 selects and guess what - the revenue is the same and in some cases even more! Now there are exceptions and special circumstances. Sometimes you need that "vertical rack" to deal with a space limitation. However, never vend 8 candies in them - rather vend some candy and toys. It should be looked at as a "specialty" machine and not a standard machine. Also, don't forget about liability issues with those sky scrapers! Kids love to play with them and spin them violently sometimes and can cause them to tip over - can you spell L-A-W-S-U-I-T! I have about 6 of these things and most likely have only 1 or 2 on location by year's end. I have even customized some 8-selects and have cut the pole and rod in half to lower the center of gravity to prevent tipping. Jax, Jax and Jax - For The People! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Jax, I have been thinking of lowering my 8 selects because of just the concerns over tipping that you mentioned here. I've not had it happen but can see how it could and worry about it. Of course I also worry about it happening with my sticker/tattoo machines that are heavier yet and could do more damage. Can you give me any hints on cutting the pole and threaded rod since you've already done it? How much did you cut off? I've got a bunch of gumball wheels and vending more caps than candy so thought it would actually help sales if the top cannisters were down lower for the little kids anyway. You are also exactly right on the 8 select being a specialty machine and only for certain locations! These are the worst machines to service that I have but the quarters in them can sometimes make me smile as my hands are getting cut up while attempting to pull quarters from the bottom of the machines. lol nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebob051977 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I'm going to agree with everyone else here. 8 products is too many for most locations. Generally, locations can handle 2 products. If they can handle 3 heads then they can handle 4 or 5. The locations that can handle 5 products should probably have a rack with toys. I wouldn't recommend buying this route. But, I do believe that buying routes is the way to go. Keep an eye out for neglected machines and get contact information off of them and call the owner and see if he or she is interested in selling the location or have some machines to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Snacks Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 nam, I cut the pole in half from 24 inches to 12 inches - a local Ace Hardware did it for me. I then cut the threaded rod with a hack saw myself - however, don't cut it exactly in half since you need an extra inch or so for the washers and nuts. When you do that, the 8-select is almost the same size (with an inch or two) as a 4-select. We live in a lawsuit happy society and I did not want to take a chance. Note: I only do this with the terminators (larger canisters) and not the eliminators (smaller canisters). Jax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Jax, Thanks for the tips on cutting the pole down to size. I'm gonna give it a shot here pretty soon. Hate to pull machines of location to do this. May have to get machines cut down and take into the locations without cannisters and then just put the same cannisters back on the new lowered machine. I've taken machines out before and something always seems to get put in there place really fast so not gonna do that again if I can help it. nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxer518 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 My general take on this would to be if you do get this route, hopefually for way less than he is asking then replace the machines that are not supporting the 8 selection machines and replace them with a single, double, or triple. I am not one to just pull out of a location, I will instead downgrade their machine and put something in like hard candy, gumballs, or bouncy balls and put it on a very long service cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anti-cubiclite Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Thanks for all the responses everyone. I'm not going to mess with this deal. Not a good place to start apparently. I just bought my first 6 used 1-800-Vending machines for $80/each. They're clean and in great shape. Tomorrow I begin pounding the pavement to get them placed. I look forward to getting this business off the ground and connecting with all of you folks out there. This seems like a great forum. There's a lot of great info on here that I'm digging through. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudLeiser Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Thanks for all the responses everyone. I'm not going to mess with this deal. Not a good place to start apparently. I just bought my first 6 used 1-800-Vending machines for $80/each. They're clean and in great shape. Tomorrow I begin pounding the pavement to get them placed. I look forward to getting this business off the ground and connecting with all of you folks out there. This seems like a great forum. There's a lot of great info on here that I'm digging through. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks. Gary We just saved you a lot of money Gary. And those 1800 are a much better way to start. As forum ambassador I will accept half your savings for the good of the community. Gary just saved a ton of money on his vending business by switching to 1800's and sharing half his profits with me! Where you from Gary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Gary, Congrats on those 1800 machines. You'll love those and a much better choice. I still think having some big U Turn 8 selects is great to have in your arsenal of machines but only for certain locations. Maybe you'll run into a couple of those someday and you can start with two and see how they do for you. nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillisNYC Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 OMG!! Are you located in NJ? As I read the description of the deal, it all sounds almost identical to a deal that I 'closed' and then let it get away! And I mean exactly, 21 machines for $3800 located and bringing in not very much income. So I told the owner that I would only pay for the income. Based on the income, I would pay $650 up front and 3 more payments of $650 every 2 mos. I wrote up the contract so that I could back out if the revenue did not match what the owner told me was being generated. Once I sent the contract, the owner never agreed to sign. I think that the revenue verification was her sticking point. Since the deal wasn't all that hot to begin with, I didn't pursue it any longer and I am glad I did not. Just before the 4th of July weekend, I saw that the owner had reposted the route for sale on Craigslist and wanted all the money up front. The owner seems very nice, but in my humble and not so learned opinion, the deal is a DOG! The way I had it structured would have worked, but paying up front for this one is a BAD idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anti-cubiclite Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm in NJ. On the Jersey Shore. That is definitely the deal that you were looking at. I came across it on Craigslist. Not too far from me. I just checked the posting again. She gave up on trying to sell the route. Now she is trying to unload the machines for $180 a piece. Here's the link: http://cnj.craigslist.org/bfs/1256934486.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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