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Heeeelp: Bad A&A Global order


Lucero
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Hey all.

I ordered 10 A&A Global machines.  89 and 90s.  I received them 3 days ago.  I have only had a chance to open them yesterday.  I have opened 2 boxes, one 89 and one 90, and both of them have unforgivable defects with the metal work.  On the lid of one, the metal is so misformed I could easily cut myself on it, and the other the top of the base looks really sloppy.  At this point, I'm ready to return all 10 (I think they are rather ugly compared to a Seaga Millenia anyway... just my opinion).

Will A&A accept them as a return, or will they only replace defective items?

Do you think they'll make me pay for shipping?

Anyone else that has been in a similar situation have any advice?

Thanks,

-Lucero

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Boy, they don't look like they do on their website. I would check them all out. If the first 2 you picked look like that what do the rest look like? Two defects may be an easy replacement, but if there are more I would send them all back and tell them that you posted the pictures on Vendiscuss.com for everyone to see. Maybe that will get you some special concideration.

Hey, you can at least try it!

Gary

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Thanks Gary.  This is just getting worse and worse as I go.  Globes that have half-inch areas that are scratched opaque, and burrs sharp enough to cut on almost every single machine, bubbling in the paint, and dents.  I was really building A&A Global up as a good company in my mind, but this is completely turning me off.  I hope they are prepared to offer me a full refund on everything including shipping both ways.  I'm no longer interested in doing business with A&A.   I'm going to photo-document all the issues tomorrow, and send an email in Monday with a follow-up call.

-Lucero

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And now a cracked globe to add as one of the issues.  One more box to open.

Lucero wrote:

Thanks Gary.  This is just getting worse and worse as I go.  Globes that have half-inch areas that are scratched opaque, and burrs sharp enough to cut on almost every single machine, bubbling in the paint, and dents.  I was really building A&A Global up as a good company in my mind, but this is completely turning me off.  I hope they are prepared to offer me a full refund on everything including shipping both ways.  I'm no longer interested in doing business with A&A.   I'm going to photo-document all the issues tomorrow, and send an email in Monday with a follow-up call.

-Lucero

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Hi,

I have been buying machines and product from A&A Global for over 3 years now and have had some minor problems that were cheerfully rectified.  After seeing the pics. I agree the machines are bad.  You should send the pics to them and call the sales rep. that sold you the machines.  I think you will find that they will replace the order with the quality machines that you paid for.  They should send you a call tag for pickup and re-delivery at no cost to you should you want that.  Trust me A&A wants your business and if your sales person doesn't make you happy then take it to the top.  I have found that A&A prices on product beats most other suppliers.  Hope this is helpfull to you.

My sales rep at A&A is Joe McCormack.    Very helpfull!!

Art 

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Welcome to the boards Art. Make sure you introduce yourself in the welcome section.

I agree with Art. I don't believe you will have an issue getting this resolved. A&A is not a fly by night company and should make good. If not, I endorse Gary's suggestion and tell them all of us at VENDiscuss are watching!:shock:

Steve

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With 1-pic per defect, there are way too many photos to post to here or in an email...  I created a flickr account to host the photos so as to not take to much bandwith or space up here.  The machines can be seen here:

http://flickr.com/photos/21464063@N03/

That's across all 10 machines, there wasn't a single one without a problem.  I'm going to stay as positive as possible and give A&A a chance to live up to it's reputation, but I'm already a bit miffed about having to wait so long for machines only to have this happen when they arrive.  Thanks for the support, everyone.  I'll be calling tomorrow.

-Lucero

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Ouch! That's really a shame. You would figure one or two defects might be normal. It's like they took a batch of QC rejects and sent 'em to you (maybe by mistake?). Definitely tell them that we are all watching to see what they do to make this right.

Regards,

Philo

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This was just sent off to Stacy Johnson at A&A Global.

Stacy,

This is X Lucero, you have a different email address for me at xxx@gmail.com.  After some wait I received order 839*** recently, consisting of 10 machines.  I unboxed the first two machines on Friday.  Both were defective.  At this point I was pretty miffed, but the online community of bulk vendors I belong to assured me that you folks were a solid company, and to unbox the full order to see what the score really was, rather than return all of them for a full refund as I was ready to.  Each machine I unpacked revealed new defects.  Severely scratched globes, cracked globes, deformed lids, burrs sharp enough to cut on most of the machines, bubbles in the metal, dents in the decorative metalwork, the list goes on and on.   Not a single machine in the batch was acceptable.  I photo-documented all the issues yesterday.  I had originally intended to attach the photos is this email, but the dozens of pictures I had to take to account for all the issues makes that impossible.  So instead, I have set up a flickr account for your team there to view.

Here is the link: http://flickr.com/photos/21464063@N03/2081135153/  If you are unfamiliar with flickr, there is a 2-box section just above and to the right of the current photo.  Click on the thumbnail picture in the left box to see the next picture in the series.  Continue in that fashion to see all 64 photos.  There are only 1 or 2 duplicate shots of the same issue.  Generally, it's one shot per issue.  The photos are across all 10 machines, as there were none without multiple problems.

I have been running Seaga Millenias, and was not aware of the rather long shipping time A&A has compared to Seaga.  I have already been without machines for accounts that I have located and promised a machine too for far, far too long.  So I have ordered a batch of Seaga Millenias to replace these A&A machines, I'll have them within a week.  In the meantime, I'm willing to give A&A a small second chance, mosty because of the confidence that the forum members espouse in your company. I am willing to return and receive a full refund including shipping on just 8 of the machines.  I'll take a replacement on 2 red PO89 machines with a 450 Large Plastic Globe @ 44.95.  

I'd also like to point out that I specifically asked on the phone while deciding the quantity to purchase if the $2 per-machine discount was applicable even if I was mixing PN95s and PO89s.  You said yes, and so I placed an order for 10 machines total.  That $20 discount was not applied to my order.

Please reply by email with your resolution of this matter, as I want to fairly represent your communication to the community of several hundred at vendiscuss.com without having to paraphrase a phone conversation. 

Thank you,

-X Lucero

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I received a call from Ben Graham, Sales Manager a short bit ago.  Ben told me that he involved Steve Cove, co-owner of the company and head of manufactoring.  Ben told me that the Seaga Millenias are made in China, so they have the ability to use labor to sand the edges, whereas that is not the case with A&A.  He says they only cut the metal, and do not have the resources to sand.  The serious deformities in the lids etc he says are unacceptable, but says that the burrs on the edges of the machine are just a fact of life with A&A.  Overall, Ben did try to defend his company's name a bit, which is of course to be expected, but he was careful to do it in a way which was not disrespectful torward me or my opinion.  He also stated the long amount of time to receive the machines (22 days from order) was largely due to the Thanksgiving holiday.

I expected him to try and sympathize with my issue and just replace the order, but he did resolve the issue per my request:  a full refund.  They are sending me a 'call-tag' from UPS so that I can have the machines picked up, and say they will process my refund as soon as they have the machines back at their HQ.

I am impressed by the professionalism of their sales team (escalation of issue, treating an unhappy customer with respect, rapid response), but am still very uncomfortable with the manufactoring proccess.  If the machines can go this wrong on the outside, what about the mech?  I won't know if a mech has a problem until it's onsite and jamming up.

I intend to follow-through with my replacement-purchase of two PO89s after I have received my full refund.   Hopefully this will go better.

-Lucero

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Way to go Lucero!

Just for the record, and I hope A&A is reading, While the majority of the products offered from Seaga are made in China the Millenia is not. It is made right here in the US. It would have been nice of them to have representatives who are a little more educated on their competition instead of ones who make absurd excuses such as that.

Steve

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I am glad you got a full refund!  I would be interested to hear from long time owners of A&A machines and get their opinion on quality.  The Elite model is the one I am hoping to build my route on. The few that I have received ( 6 Elites ) and put together are fine and I have another 9 Elites on their way to me as I speak. 

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Ben told me that the Seaga Millenias are made in China, so they have the ability to use labor to sand the edges, whereas that is not the case with A&A. 

 

I read this as them saying "if you want american made, you'll have to go with a substandard product, we don't want to pay american workers more to do a good job."  And people wonder why the Chinese make so many of our products???  Not only are American companies like A&A too lazy to do a good job themselves, but they don't want to pay their employees to excel??

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akashdesai wrote:

 

I read this as them saying "if you want american made, you'll have to go with a substandard product, we don't want to pay american workers more to do a good job."  And people wonder why the Chinese make so many of our products???  Not only are American companies like A&A too lazy to do a good job themselves, but they don't want to pay their employees to excel??

Well I'm sure Ben would present it as having to put out a product with less labor put into it because of the disparity in Chinese vs American wages.  No matter how you word it though, the spirit is the same.  He says they can't compete with China, and so the product quality suffers.  Personally, I'm completely uninterested in where the product comes from, provided it is quality.  The point does seem a bit moot since the Millenia actually is an American-made Seaga product anyhow.

-Stacy :P

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You know for years I've only driven American made cars. Three years ago, a company I worked for gave me a Honda Accord as a car to use. What a nightmare! It was so much better than any American car I had, I was embarrassed (although it was made in Ohio, mostly). Anyways I'm back to driving a Ford, but all of my machines, mostly triples, are Seagas made in China. No problems, no lead poisoned customers. You keep paying top dollar for your machines. I'll go through Seaga, or XYZ, or Gumball Warehouse. You stick to your guns, but for now, I gotta run to the bank and make a deposit.

Regards,

Philo

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Quick update.  I received the call-tags.  3 tags @ 35 lbs each.  10 boxes weighing between 9.5 and 10.6 lbs.  No way to group them into 3 groups under 35lbs each.  I found out at a UPS store after I went to drop off the return.  I called UPS's 800 number to verify...  I have to have new tags reissued.  Ben is out of the office today, so I left a voicemail.

 Yikes.

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Many of the images look like the same issue.  It makes me wonder if it's a problem with the mold, or the quality control when they remove the flashing from the freshly molded items.

I have to hand it to you tho.  I don't normally give my new machines the white-glove treatment that you are giving these machines.  From some of these images, those blemishes are minor and easily overlooked by most people.. unless you are really looking.

They also can't say that the problems occured in shipping. :)

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Many of the images look like the same issue.  It makes me wonder if it's a problem with the mold, or the quality control when they remove the flashing from the freshly molded items.

I have to hand it to you tho.  I don't normally give my new machines the white-glove treatment that you are giving these machines.  From some of these images, those blemishes are minor and easily overlooked by most people.. unless you are really looking.

They also can't say that the problems occured in shipping. :)

dperry, can you tell me what brand of machine you use?  Are the burrs on the seams of the machine typical for many brands?  Before this order I have only had Seagas, and their seams are perfect.  There is no physical defect to be found on any of my 11 machines...  I know that many of those issues are pure QC goofups(dents, scratched globes, cracked globes, missing metal etc), but are the more minor issues common?  It seems bizarre to me that those kinds of issues would be acceptable to most people because they are so sharp, and little hands are all over the machines...  I know I am pretty new to this business though.  Thanks,

-Lucero

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