Problem with Dixie Narco 440

[Victorv1]

Hello I have a Dixie Narco 440 that I'm having issues with. First of all I put in the quarters and it will automatically vend from column 5 without making a selection. All vend motors work as they should when you manually operate them. I also checked that all sold out switches and light work. Right now I have about 4 columns with soda. I will appreciate any help and thanks in advance.

[AZVendor]

Check the selection switch for that column to see if it is stuck by listening for a click when pressed in and a click as it releases, and check if the button doesn't spring back out when released.  If no switch clicks, your switch is probably bad or the button is stuck in.  If there's no spring back of the button either the edges are bound up from dirt or abuse of the button, the switch bracket is bent inside or the plastic selection spring is weak.  This all assumes, of course, that the motor is stopping correctly.

 

The motor is properly stopped at home if the narrow motor switch arm is in the notch in the motor cam and the wider switch arm is on the high side of the cam.  If both switch arms are in the notch, you will get an automatic vend of that motor when a credit is set.  This can be caused by a gummed up motor brake not stopping the motor quickly or a magnetized motor winding that doesn't lose its magnetic field when power is removed from the motor, causing the brake to again not stop the motor.

 

I have any of these parts in stock if you need them.

[Victorv1]

Thanks fort the help I will surely check that out tomorrow morning.

Does this happen even though the column is sold out?

[AZVendor]

No, when the column is sold out, the motor won't run automatically because it's locked out by the sold out switches, however a motor off home can sometimes inhibit coin acceptance.  In addition, if you have a stuck selection switch and that column sells out, no one can then buy anything from the other columns.  The machine will accept one credit and then sit there waiting for the stuck column to vend.

[Victorv1]

I just took a quick look right now and it seems the wider switch arm was inside the cam, I did a quick adjustment, but now the switch is coming too close to coming down the notch. Is their another adjustment I can make or do I have replace the motor.

[AZVendor]

Well since there aren't any true adjustments to make (bending the switch arm isn't an adjustment, you will need to straighten it when the problem is solved) you need to check and see if the motor brake is gummy.  The brake is the brass colored piece that hugs one side of the winding.  It pivots on each side and it connects to a white nylon hook that stops the motor.  When the motor starts and a magnetic field is created, the brass is pulled against the motor and releases the brake.  When power stops, the magnetic field immediately is broken and the brake should quickly release and engage the hook to stop the motor.  If the brake is not gummed up you can tap the brass piece easily and loosely against the motor over and over, but if you can't do this and the brake reacts to your tapping slowly, then it's gummed up.  The easiest fix is to spray glass cleaner on the two pivot points and then work the heck out of the brake to clean it up.  If this works then dry it off and let it run.  Check it the next time you're there to see if it still works easily.  If not, you will need to replace the motor.  Don't forget to straighten the switch arm when it's fixed.

 

I have motors in stock if you need one.

[Victorv1]

Thanks a lot, that did the trick. Just out of curiosity how much are your vend motors.

[AZVendor]

A good used motor is $35.00 and a new motor is $85.00. Let me know if you need one.

[Victorv1]

Thanks.

But now my machine is not vending at all. I thought it would be the vend relay so I replaced it, but that didnt solve it.

I will appreciate your help.

[AZVendor]

If you have a stuck motor with both switches out of the cam, the machine won't accept any money while that motor is trying to run.  When that stuck motor gets hot enough it will turn off for a short time, and during the time that jammed motor is off the machine will vend other selections.  Once the jammed motor cools off and powers up to try turning again, then the machine won't take money.  If you could take close up photos of each motor so I can see the switches and motor cams then I could possibly tell you where your problem is.  The vend relays are rarely the problem, but you could have a wire loose in the socket side of the coin mech plug or the vend relay socket, or you could have had a wire come off of one of your selections switches which could kill the whole machine, depending on which wire it is.

[Victorv1]

[AZVendor]

It looks like column 7 has both switch arms in the notch of the motor cam.  This will cause col. 7 to pre-vend when a credit is set.  If this is the motor you had trouble with before, you should change the motor.  If it's a different motor then you need to work on it to check the brake operation as you did before.

[Victorv1]

I was actually doing a test where read on one if the forums here.

This is what it said:

Also a good trick to see if it's not a motor problem is to drop all the motors the vend switch inside the valley of the cam. Then insert coin it should start vending from right to left. If you go down the line and one of doesn't vend you may have a wiring issue. If one motor is wired in the line is wrong then nothing will will vend, unless pushing the overide switches.

I tried this and it will pre vend all the way until it reaches column 7 it wil stop.

[AZVendor]

If you can't manually run motor 7 using the motor switch and the motor is hot, then you have a jammed rotor or the motor gearbox is frozen.  If the motor won't run and it's cold, then you have a dead motor.  Either one will cause a break in the vend circuit if the motor switches aren't at home.  If you can manually run the motor, then inspect the switch connections on 7.  Look for wires pulled out of the connectors, that the connectors are catching the side terminals on the three switches, and that the inside switch has the red connector and the outside switch only has two wires in it.  Also inspect the connectors on motor 8 and 6 as well.

[Victorv1]

I can manually run all motors. I just unplugged all wires and replugged them back but the problem still exist. I put in coins into the coin mech and gives me correct change but when I want to make a selection it does nothing and the coin mech doesn't want to accept any more coins.

[AZVendor]

You might have a bad cluster (triple) switch on one of the motors.  Does motor 7 go to the proper home position?  You might be able to narrow the problem down by setting a credit and manually running motor 1.  If the credit is erased, meaning the machine will take money again, then set another credit and manually run motor 2, etc. until you have either run every motor manually or found a motor that does not erase the credit.  If that happens, then that is the bad cluster switch.  Another test is to run a continuity test across the common terminal of the middle motor switches.  If you don't have continuity from the left to the right motors, then you can work your way backwards to find which switch seems to break the continuity.  In other words, you will have continuity from the left to the right up to the bad switch and then no continuity after the bad switch.

 

Pay closer attention to the original problem motor and the one I pointed out in your photos.  We have to remember that you originally started with column 5 preselecting itself.

[Victorv1]

I ran all motors and each one of them clears the credit

[AZVendor]

So each motor will clear an individual credit when manually running the motor?  But you can't get the machine to actually vend from the selection panel?  

 

You might want to try a different coin mech first.  Did you check all the wires coming out of the relay socket and the coin mech socket?  Is the relay you put in the machine correct for a Dixie Narco with terminals down the middle as well as down the sides?

 

If you have 8 side by side buttons, your power running through the selection panel runs from the NC of select switch 7, through NC of 5, NC of 3, NC of 1, then jumps to NC of 2, NC of 4, NC of 6, NC of 8.  So you want to check for 110v at each of those points all the while looking for a damaged or loose wire.  There will be no connector on the common of #8 but if you want to check continuity through all the selection switches go from the NC of 7 to the common of 8, or at least the NC of 8.  If you don't have continuity, then you need to work back through the circuit to find the break. 

[Victorv1]

Yes each motor will clear the credit. The machine I have has 7 selection buttons (one big selection button on the top and six equal size buttons on the bottom).

[AZVendor]

Everything looks pretty normal in you pictures.  I would check the wires from the coin mech socket and relay socket to ensure they don't pull out (do this with power off).  Pull the relay off and verify that it has no bent pins and is installed correctly.  On you sel. switches, do each of them click on and off when pushing the buttons?  You should check the continuity through the motor and selection switch harnesses as I mentioned before.  If this is your only machine and you suspect the coin mech or want to rule it out, you should find a vending repair place in town, preferably one that is Mars changer certified, to test the coin mech.  Actually you can test it in any single price machine that someone has.  Let me know the results of all your testing.

[Victorv1]

It looks like I'm not getting power to selection switches 1,2, and 6. 1 & 2 is the same selection switch. All other selection switches are getting 110 volts.

[AZVendor]

You won't have hit and miss power through the selection panel as it's wired in series with power running through all selection switches.  If the circuit is broken at any given switch such as the 1&2 switch, then you won't have power to the 4, 6, and 8 switches.  You might not be getting a good connection with your probes if you are missing more than one voltage.  There is also the possibility that someone else has improperly wired the panel.  If you have a wiring diagram on the inside of the door, it will show wire numbers to each connection on the panel.  You should spot check to see if your wires on in the right spots and on the correct terminals.  Did you try a different coin mech yet?