pcs1st Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hello evryone, i have a delimma on what type of charity honor box route to go with, one that already has 400 locations setup thats close enough to me to make it an option for me, or start fresh and have a locator locate me 100 every 2 week until i got 400. I have done the numbers so many times im going crazy thats for sure. Let me break it down so maybe someone here can help. What i would call a mature exstablished route of 400 charity boxes will cost me right at 45 dollars a box and this would be all in one lump sum for the route he doesnt want to break it up. With this route he will throw in 80 extra what he calls service boxes. The owner of this route said it grossed about 8-12 dollars per box per service which it every 2 weeks and claims he nets between 4-6 dollars per box per service which would be 6400 -9600 gross and 3200-4800 net and ive done that math, He claimes on average that every box sells between 24-35 lollies per service and and replace about 2000 lollies a day or 80 boxes which is what he runs a day he works on the route 5 days evry 2 weeks and spends 1 more day looking for new locations. So he is working 6 days every 2 weeks or 3 days a week to run this route. it breaks down like this. this is based on make the minimum claimed 24 pops sold per box at 3 for 1 dollar doing 80 boxes a day/ 5 routes of 80 = 400 boxes every 2 weeks service route pops/box pops sold /80 boxes pops sell for gross/80 boxes gross per box net/per 80 net/per box day 1 80 boxes ---------80___x___24=1920_____x_____0.33__=___633.60____or___7.92______320___or____4 day 2 80 boxes ---------80___x___24=1920_____x_____0.33__=___633.60____or___7.92______320___or____4 day 3 80 boxes ---------80___x___24=1920_____x_____0.33__=___633.60____or___7.92______320___or____4 day 4 80 boxes ---------80___x___24=1920_____x_____0.33__=___633.60____or___7.92______320___or____4 day 5 80 boxes ---------80___x___24=1920_____x_____0.33__=___633.60____or___7.92______320___or____4 total boxes 400 pops/2 weeks 9600 gross/2weeks 3168 net /2weeks 1600 Gross sales of 3188 minus gas and replacement pops and charity payment and taxes = net 1600 so it looks like you keep 1/2 of what the box makes. total investment 400 boxes at 45 a box = 18000 and in theroy base on the figures given by seller you would make money the first day of 320 net and for the next 4 days so in the first week you would make 1600 back on you investment and at this rate it would take 5.65 months to break even on your investment along with a lot of hard work. Do these figures sound about right for a mature route thats been in service over 2 years? would 45 dollars per box be a good starting point for this setup? I mean if the figures are truthful then it would have to be. Now lets talk the new route, i found a in person locator for 20 dollars a box if i do 100 at a time. With this plan there will be no records so im just not sure what to base anything on. So the boxes if i buy 500 they will be about 3 dollars a box with coin boxes. 500 x 3= 1500 100 extra for service. Now to replicate the route above 400 locations would cost 8000 dollars and you would need 63 pops per box 480x63=30240 pops this includes the 80 service boxes need to make your first round, 480 charity stickers 1.50 each = 720 dollars so my total cost would be charity boxes 480 = 1440 locations 400= 8000 charity stickers 480= 720 lolly pops 30240= 2722 rounded up at 0.09 cents each total investment 12882 you would have to wait 2 weeks before any return in theroy and im not sure what it would be. but im sure some would be good and some bad and need moved. And im not sure 30 days wouldbe enough time to decide anyway thats only 2 services. So both will give training and both offer a 30 day replacement, is it worth the extra 5000 or so to get a mature route. I am leaning towards it and have asked my family also but would like other opinions as it is a big choice and im sure with either route i will make my money back at some point. Thanks in advance and sorry for being so detailed i have put alot of thought into this Thanks PCS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 option 3 - buy the boxes 10 at a time and locate them yourself? this is by far the cheapest way to go anyway save 5 grand and use the locator those numbers dont exactly wow me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs1st Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks for the reply dogcow, and yes option 3 is another option and i figured it would take me about 1 to 1 1/2 years to place 400 boxes if i got 5 per week? maybe i could get more maybe not? Im sure i could get more as time goes on. I have never done this before and was looking at it as buying a business. I was wondering though since there are already boxes in my location it would be faster, and i was not sure how many boxes an area could support, the cities in question are Jeffersonville Indiana and Louisville Kentucky. Also i figured there would be at least a 10-15% loss of accounts each year so in order to make what i needed i was looking to get into this fast to start getting my money back maybe im thinking wrong? Anyway thanks for the info it helps a lot here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Ur loss rate will be much higher honor box biz is constant churn you need to always be locating boxes id say spend at least as much time doing that as servicing. You will need to know how to pitch the boxes anyway might as well learn from the outset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newheart53 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 If he wants the route in one lump sum then I would offer 16000 andhit the road running if he takes it. To me having an existing route out ways developing 100x over. Then you can learn from him [which he must be well experienced to have that size route] and either build on that route or maintain the relocation of poor performers. Keep us posted on what you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 If he wants the route in one lump sum then I would offer 16000 andhit the road running if he takes it. To me having an existing route out ways developing 100x over. Then you can learn from him [which he must be well experienced to have that size route] and either build on that route or maintain the relocation of poor performers. Keep us posted on what you decide. yeah assuming his numbers are right,i have no idea BUT i know most routes for sale are usually grossing half what the seller says, for some reason the average always skews high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newheart53 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I agree dogcow. If he runs the route a couple of weeks with the present owner and averages the amount of stops with the amount of money collected, you should have a good estimate of gross. Personnally I would not believe any ones books or word on money a route makes. On a cash bus. like this, very few people are going to run a good total. Some reason that pie in the sky allways sounds good when your trying to sell, but to a buyer it should always raise question marks. I've always been a horse trader and always will be [meaning I always go for the best bargain I can get]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs1st Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Hey guys thanks for the respones, and i used the lowest amount in the figures above that way i was not expecting more then he said but his average is net 4-6 a box and i talked with him several times and found out that this has taken him 3 1/2 years to get to this level he does have some account that net 10 plus and some that net 2-3 and he eliminates the lower ones and uses 4 dollars as his cut point, he said if it dont make 4 dollars net in 2 months he cuts it. which seems crazy to me if it is within a route why not just add another instead of cutting bad producers? Aslo he is going to give the a list with evryone he has cut from his route so you think they would be potential locations? And he is including between 30-50 new locations, he locates 1 day a week he says. I aggree with you all on the books he will let me ride with hime for 1 week so i can see what is being made because anyone can say they make anything but do you all think the numbers he gave me are at all possible? if i only make 4 per service per box I can still make money and if they make more it is just a plus right? And another good note is the day i make the deal if i do i can also service account i just got to let him no 2 week in advance and give a deposit and he will stop collecting so i can start the same day. To me this sounds good as i can start making money day 1 . I know this will be a challenge but i do think with time i can make this work for me. Thanks all p.s. if you can think of anything else i need to know or should make sure of please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newheart53 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sounds good to me. Wish you all the luck you can handle. Pay close attention while on the week ride along. Then be prepared for the ups and downs of owning your own bus. Have you been following dennis on here? It would be great if you could keep us updated on your adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcs1st Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks, yes i have been following dennis and i will keep my adventure updated. It is amazing how well Dennis has done,I no it will take a lot of work and determination to keep it going. But i invision throwing other candies into the mix like mints and other bite size candies, And i figure once i see the actual sites i can determine if it would be better for any other vending equiptment maybe maybe not i will have to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulkjake Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Thanks, yes i have been following dennis and i will keep my adventure updated. It is amazing how well Dennis has done,I no it will take a lot of work and determination to keep it going. But i invision throwing other candies into the mix like mints and other bite size candies, And i figure once i see the actual sites i can determine if it would be better for any other vending equiptment maybe maybe not i will have to see. Wow. Let us know how it goes. If it were me I would offer $15,000 and work my way up to $18,000 assuming all his numbers are in line with what you are seeing him actually count out of the box when you do the ride along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridavending Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I understand the reasons for wanting to pay a locator.. But really, all you're paying for is not wanting to hear the word: No. I've located hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of units.. after your first full day, you can't even remember the no's.. the rude people, you forget about them too.. Granted, before acquiring a vending route I worked in professional sports sales, so maybe it's easier for me to approach businesses.. but despite the fact I've sold five and six figure sponsorship packages to everyone from Microsoft to military contractors - I had BUTTERFLIES in my stomach when I approached my first business with an honor box worth like ten bucks.... and it was a mom-and-pop place that couldn't have been more than 800 square feet that I wouldn't have even bothered with in my previous professional endeavors.. Trust me: Once you learn to locate YOURSELF you'll truly feel in control of the growth of your business.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treadmill Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Thanks, yes i have been following dennis and i will keep my adventure updated. It is amazing how well Dennis has done,I no it will take a lot of work and determination to keep it going. But i invision throwing other candies into the mix like mints and other bite size candies, And i figure once i see the actual sites i can determine if it would be better for any other vending equiptment maybe maybe not i will have to see. Well it's been about 5 weeks now. How about an update. Did you take the plunge? Or did you drown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission vending Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Well it's been about 5 weeks now. How about an update. Did you take the plunge? Or did you drown? Last active Jan 31. Maybe he has been too busy with his new business to post any updates...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I understand the reasons for wanting to pay a locator.. But really, all you're paying for is not wanting to hear the word: No. one of the best posts ever on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhumphrey829 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 one of the best posts ever on this forum I am a testiment to this post. When I first started this business a couple of months, I started off like gangbusters, I placed 4 out of 5 places that I talked to. In fact, I caught a lot of flack on here because a lot of people doubted whether I was telling the truth or not. Well IL guess you would call that beginners luck because since that time. I have 1 "yes" and 13 "no's". Well yesterday, after 4 consecutive "no's", I decided it just wasn't worth it, why not just pay a locator to do this. That's why I love this forum, I use it as a motivation tool, and have decided that I will continue to try and place my machines myself and not waste my money just so I don't have to hear the "no's" which is exactly what I was about to do. So just wanted to say thanks. You just never know how your words on here will effect someone, both good and bad, needless to say, this was good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridavending Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I am a testiment to this post. When I first started this business a couple of months, I started off like gangbusters, I placed 4 out of 5 places that I talked to. In fact, I caught a lot of flack on here because a lot of people doubted whether I was telling the truth or not. Well IL guess you would call that beginners luck because since that time. I have 1 "yes" and 13 "no's". Well yesterday, after 4 consecutive "no's", I decided it just wasn't worth it, why not just pay a locator to do this. That's why I love this forum, I use it as a motivation tool, and have decided that I will continue to try and place my machines myself and not waste my money just so I don't have to hear the "no's" which is exactly what I was about to do. So just wanted to say thanks. You just never know how your words on here will effect someone, both good and bad, needless to say, this was good Locating can be streaky.. I agree.. Sometimes I've placed 20 units and only pulled on 40 doors.. other times I feel like I've pulled on 140 doors to place 20.. My wife asked me why I don't get in to locating.. making ~$20 per location is quick, easy money.. My answer was: because we'll make more money locating for ourselves than for someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulkjake Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 one of the best posts ever on this forum I agree if this is your only source of income and you are on a budget, you should be locating yourself. No question about it. However, I have said it before, locating is a $15 per hour job...and I make way more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridavending Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I agree if this is your only source of income and you are on a budget, you should be locating yourself. No question about it. However, I have said it before, locating is a $15 per hour job...and I make way more than that. Well of all the excuses I thought people would come up with because they're too scared to pull on doors -- "Locating is beneath me" or "Locating isn't worth my time" are two of the best. It's not a $15/hour job, the way you're looking at it. It's an $8 hour job, on its surface. I mean how hard is it to go pull on a door and ask to place a vending unit? I mean physically speaking you work harder at Burger King than you do locating.. But what you're not giving ANY consideration to is how difficult it can be mentally.. At $15/hour your locator would last 1 day, ask for their money, flip you the bird, and find something else to do.. If you were going to pay an honor box locator who's NEVER done the job before a flat rate I would suggest paying them $200 per day, 10am to 5pm work day.. plus since they're likely using their own vehicle, an extra $30 or $40 for gas, wear and tear... An honor box locator with any skill can locate 20 a day MINIMUM in 7 hours on the worst of days. So paying a locator by the unit at $25 per, that would be $500.. I literally just came back on a half-day run and placed 5 units on 13 doors pulled in the same area I was servicing. These were businesses that for whatever reason, I never went in to my first time locating the area.. My record is 10 units placed in 1 hour.. So this is why I suggest locating yourself. Why give someone else your $500? Yes, it's scary at first.. yes you'll flub your pitch the first few times.. but YES, you'll get better at it very quickly. However, if you are going to hire an honor box locator by the hour, don't pay them $15/hour.. pay them $30/hour so you know they'll come back a second day.. and once they get their pitch down, they'll probably be cheaper than an established locator.. if you absolutely are scared to death of locating, this is the approach I'd take... And if you're an established locator who's annoyed with this post, why in the world aren't you locating for yourself anyway? You make more money on vending than locating.. so you should do it for yourself rather than other people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogcow Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 florida what area do u run? i am planning to set up a route for my family down the powerline road area in broward , but thats w/ fullsize snack boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridavending Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 florida what area do u run? i am planning to set up a route for my family down the powerline road area in broward , but thats w/ fullsize snack boxes I'm Gulf side.. there's so many businesses out there, especially so in Broward County.. you'll do really well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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