Done with doubles?

[tedk]

I don't think you should get too many I told you so's. I think it is good to try different models to see what works. It is great of you to share your results to help the rest of us.

Like Pusherman I would go back over your figures and look at how and when the drop happened. Everyone seems to have a drop off sfter Hallowen. In November you are competing with the leftover candy from Hallowen. In December it's baking and lunches out. In January it's dieting. If these are the months of your decline but August ,September and October were normal , you may just be seeing a seasonal change. If the decline started before Hallowen then it may have had more to due with the change to singles.

Ted 

[philo]

Steve:

Thanks for trying and letting us know. The gumball philosophy is tempting in that it has the lowest cost. Of course if no one wants to chew gumballs, you'll have no sales- but your costs will be low! I think the only way a single product strategy could work is if you changed the product every month. People like to choose or change snacks, rather than eat the same thing all the time, in my opinion.

Regards,

Philo

[The Master Key]

Hey, at least you gave it a shot.  I think the time of year might have something to do with it, though. 

I was hoping that theory would work out because I'm still thinking about trying it myself. 

[joebob051977]

I really had to come back to this topic because I had been considering going with single head gumball machines too. The simplicity is wonderful and there's a great profit margin. $0.022 per vend is a lot better than $0.12 per vend. It is so attractive since a single head machine cost about 1/2 as much as a triple. You'd need double the locations but can handle a much lower lower volume of sales because of the profit margin. At least now I know it doesn't work.  I'm glad you made the mistake, that way I don't have to.

"If you want to be sucessful, find someone who is doing what you want to do, find out how they became sucessful, and do the exact same thing." -Tony Robbins

Joe

[dperry]

I really had to come back to this topic because I had been considering going with single head gumball machines too. The simplicity is wonderful and there's a great profit margin. $0.022 per vend is a lot better than $0.12 per vend. It is so attractive since a single head machine cost about 1/2 as much as a triple. You'd need double the locations but can handle a much lower lower volume of sales because of the profit margin. At least now I know it doesn't work.  I'm glad you made the mistake, that way I don't have to.

Maybe it's harder to go from multiple candy products to single gumballs.  I have always done single gumballs, so I don't know anything else.  However I did delve into triples and candy in single heads before.  I've always had bad experiences with triples and candy.  Candy would crack open or stick together and would not be usable, so I had to throw it away.  Candy is a waste of time and money.

So now my business is 100% single gumball vending.  I have a single flavor of gumball, so I only buy one product.  My routes are on an 8+ week service rotation, so I don't waste gas and time servicing every month or less.  When I start getting more machines and locations, I will be expanding to a 12+ week service rotation, saving even more gas and money.

And yet, I can still compete with other candy/gumball vendors.  I can sell 2for1 gumballs, or I can try my new idea and sell gumballs for a dime, instead of a quarter.  But once I force the competition out of the location, I'll be going back to one for a quarter.

But I guess it's a good thing that not every vendor can work with my same model.  If they could we would all be competetors.

[joebob051977]

Maybe it's harder to go from multiple candy products to single gumballs.  I have always done single gumballs, so I don't know anything else.  However I did delve into triples and candy in single heads before.  I've always had bad experiences with triples and candy.  Candy would crack open or stick together and would not be usable, so I had to throw it away.  Candy is a waste of time and money.

So now my business is 100% single gumball vending.  I have a single flavor of gumball, so I only buy one product.  My routes are on an 8+ week service rotation, so I don't waste gas and time servicing every month or less.  When I start getting more machines and locations, I will be expanding to a 12+ week service rotation, saving even more gas and money.

You make a very good case for gumballs only. I really find myself going back and forth between triples and single head gumballs. I have acquired a very good accounts for triples which will help bolster a quick expansion. I can certainly see where the ease and simplicity of a gumball route would make it more efficient, especially with the profit margin involved. I am stil very intrigued with single head gumballs. What is your average gross per machine? I am afraid that my gross would drop down to the point that it would be less profitable than a triple, but then again...being able to go on a 12 week rotation would allow you to have many more machines.

Joe 

[pusherman]

joebob051977 wrote:

Maybe it's harder to go from multiple candy products to single gumballs.  I have always done single gumballs, so I don't know anything else.  However I did delve into triples and candy in single heads before.  I've always had bad experiences with triples and candy.  Candy would crack open or stick together and would not be usable, so I had to throw it away.  Candy is a waste of time and money.

So now my business is 100% single gumball vending.  I have a single flavor of gumball, so I only buy one product.  My routes are on an 8+ week service rotation, so I don't waste gas and time servicing every month or less.  When I start getting more machines and locations, I will be expanding to a 12+ week service rotation, saving even more gas and money.

You make a very good case for gumballs only. I really find myself going back and forth between triples and single head gumballs. I have acquired a very good accounts for triples which will help bolster a quick expansion. I can certainly see where the ease and simplicity of a gumball route would make it more efficient, especially with the profit margin involved. I am stil very intrigued with single head gumballs. What is your average gross per machine? I am afraid that my gross would drop down to the point that it would be less profitable than a triple, but then again...being able to go on a 12 week rotation would allow you to have many more machines.

Joe 

go to the member plus revenue reporting section

[dperry]

You make a very good case for gumballs only. I really find myself going back and forth between triples and single head gumballs. I have acquired a very good accounts for triples which will help bolster a quick expansion. I can certainly see where the ease and simplicity of a gumball route would make it more efficient, especially with the profit margin involved. I am stil very intrigued with single head gumballs. What is your average gross per machine? I am afraid that my gross would drop down to the point that it would be less profitable than a triple, but then again...being able to go on a 12 week rotation would allow you to have many more machines.

Joe 

I average about $0.50 a day on my gumball machines, that's $15 a month.  Just like triples, I have very good and bad locations.  I have mostly Oak Vista 300's and some machines are actually empty when I service.  For those locations, I upgrade to a Vista 450.  I top off my machines when I service, so that there is enough product for the service cycle.

[Jax Snacks]

I don’t do single heads gumballs for some reasons stated below, but I know a few vendors that have been very successful at it.  However there are pros and cons with every business model.

The Obvious Pros: Simplicity, Lower Equipment Cost, Highest Margin with Gumballs, Gumballs Have Long Shelf Life, Minimal Bug Problems, Easier to Locate due to Small Footprint, Perfect for Charity, Longer (10 or 12 week) Service Cycles, Rapid In-Out Service Time, Short Service Time means Less Likely to Get Noticed (and then Booted!).

There are two other (not so obvious) pluses for single head gumballs.  First (pro), they are easy to place without the direct approval of the business owner.  Often times a lower level assistant manager or employee will Okay the machine without having any real authorization to allow the machine.  Other times, NO ONE really Okays it, but the vendor/locator places it anyway and hopes no one will notice or care (a practice called slamming).  Think of the single head as a cute lost little puppy.  Even if the owner did not approve it, many times he will most likely let it (the cute little puppy) stay since it takes up little space and "it's just a little gumball machine for charity".  It’s much harder to do this with a larger machine (like an 8-select Uturn) since this dog is a more like a Pitt Bull and takes up way to much space.

Second (pro), they tend to survive for a longer period in the location even when other machines are asked to leave (also know as getting evicted).  Charity locations are unstable due to the lack of incentive for the businesses to keep them.  When a business changes ownership, many charity machines will “get the boot†since there is really no official agreement and the old agreements with the prior ownership are null and void.  I was evicted 46 times in 2006 and 36 times in 2007 – that’s 82 (mostly charity) locations lost mostly due to changes in ownership or management!  However, even amazingly, the single head machine (the cute puppy) is allowed to stay on since (once again) “it’s just a little gumball machine for charityâ€.  The new owner can’t bring himself to evict the lost little puppy, but all of the other dogs are booted.  I have seen this with my own eyes.

Now for the cons – and they are big ones!  First Con, is that they are very, very easy to steal.  It seems that others want this cute little puppy also!   Expect a high rate of theft with single heads and you will need to budget for it in your business plan.  

Second (con), you will need a huge number (or should I say a virtual army) of machines to make it as a full time vendor since your average revenue per location is somewhat low.  The vendors I know that have been successful with single heads have at least 900+ locations.  I figure at least 500 locations needed for you and 500 locations needed for each dependent you need to support (depending on life style of course).   That is a staggering number of locations to obtain.  How will you locate them?  How will you service all of them?  How large of a radius must you cover?  How will you pay for them all?  Only the “Wolf Man†can place this many machines – if you can find him!

Third (con), IMO you will need to slam many of these machines in order to obtain the huge volume of locations necessary to survive full time.  Are you comfortable with this practice?

Forth (con), high probability that there are one or two established competitors already doing this model and have saturated your area.  Most locations don't want a second (or third) lost little puppy.

Just my 2 cents – I am sure many will disagree.  But the cons are enough for me to NOT pursue the single head gumball model.  Any full time single head gumball vendors care to comment?  I have a strong suspicion they are out there lurking!

Jax

[Lee M]

Very EYE OPENING :shock: post Jax - thanks, much appreciated!

Lee

[philo]

I have found the mix of singles and triples works best for me. I started with all triples. As some locations seemed weaker than others I replaced the triple with a single and found a new home for the triple. In this way I have been able to balance my routes and tailor the right sized machine for the appropriate location. i currently have about 305 of my locations on singles, the rest on triples.

Regards,

Philo

[Jax Snacks]

I agree with you Philo.  IMO you have to match or adjust the equipment (single, double, etc.), product (candy, gum. toys. eyc.) and relationship (charity or commission) to the location.  I no longer believe in a one-size-fits-all strategy any more.  Personally, I would love to be just a commission rack vendor.  The problem is that you run out of accounts that fit the profile you are looking for and you end up "force feeding" equipment and products in "inappropriate" locations.  I also want to keep all locations within a 50 mile radius so I have to adapt to each location's situation.  There is no perfect model - I wish there was.

Jax

[T BIRD]

I have found the mix of singles and triples works best for me. I started with all triples. As some locations seemed weaker than others I replaced the triple with a single and found a new home for the triple. In this way I have been able to balance my routes and tailor the right sized machine for the appropriate location. i currently have about 305 of my locations on singles, the rest on triples.

Regards,

Philo

Phil........you have 305 locations?? Holy macrel!  I did not know that!  Dont you work a full time job besides this vending thing?

[philo]

Doh! Typo Johnny- that should have read 30%.

LOL!

Philo

[jimbo]

I agree with you Philo.  IMO you have to match or adjust the equipment (single, double, etc.), product (candy, gum. toys. eyc.) and relationship (charity or commission) to the location.  I no longer believe in a one-size-fits-all strategy any more.  Personally, I would love to be just a commission rack vendor.  The problem is that you run out of accounts that fit the profile you are looking for and you end up "force feeding" equipment and products in "inappropriate" locations.  I also want to keep all locations within a 50 mile radius so I have to adapt to each location's situation.  There is no perfect model - I wish there was.

Jax

This is so true. In fact, I think that trying to push a certain piece of equipment and not letting the location dictate what needs to be placed is one of the biggest mistakes a vendor can make when locating.

I like gumballs but look how many places dont want gum, every one of those is a candidate for another piece of gear.

Jimbo

[joebob051977]

I have found the mix of singles and triples works best for me. I started with all triples. As some locations seemed weaker than others I replaced the triple with a single and found a new home for the triple. In this way I have been able to balance my routes and tailor the right sized machine for the appropriate location. i currently have about 305 of my locations on singles, the rest on triples.

Regards,

Philo

I think that really makes sense. While gumballs makes sense for the reason of simplicity and margin, you really need to have the right machine for the right location. One size does not fit all.

[Outlander]

dperry wrote:

And yet, I can still compete with other candy/gumball vendors.  I can sell 2for1 gumballs, or I can try my new idea and sell gumballs for a dime, instead of a quarter.  But once I force the competition out of the location, I'll be going back to one for a quarter.

I am interested if you ever tried the .10 route.

I have been thinking of doing this for some time and have finally acquired about 15 dime mechs. Was going to use a 4" .10 sticker and the 15mm gum and vend 1 per dime, just kind of a nostalgia thing but if it works the profit margin would be great. Gross of $365 compared to $212 with the 1" at .25 .

This would require more sales, but who can tell, each person might vend twice.

[grumpy]

Outlander, I have 1 machine with a dime mech, not gumballs but peanuts. It is in a large mill, and believe it or not I can not give those peanuts away there. It is one of two locations where I actually had to throw peanuts away. There is 7 other heads at a quarter that do well.

Could it be a mindset thing?

[Outlander]

Yeah Grumpy, it's a little weird. I had many like that where peanuts wont sell. At least the gumballs won't go bad, might give that a try.

Do you have any other .10 machines out?

[grumpy]

No! Just one dime machine, do not want it or others for that matter.

A quarter is cheap for all the products that I push. When I change coin mechs it will be going north to $1.00. I have no desire to compete on price, there is only room for one value vendor and it will not be me.

[Outlander]

I'm going to give it a try with the 15mm gumballs for a dime. Have about 6 dime mechs but need to find some 15mm wheels, so when I find some and get them out I'll let you know how they do.

[phoenixvender]

you have to continously move your mahines and selections until you find a combination that works ,have a location where the selection is just m&m nut (three head machine)last three weeks only , orignally had u-turn 4 selection (4 flavors ) of everything under the sun (alot waste)they are happy i am happy. just keep searching for the right combination.

[dperry]

Yeah Grumpy, it's a little weird. I had many like that where peanuts wont sell. At least the gumballs won't go bad, might give that a try.

Do you have any other .10 machines out?

I tried my 10c gumball idea in 2 places.  The first one was a taquaria (place that makes and sells tortillas).  I was the first one in there, but soon there was a local vendor in there selling 2-for-1 gumballs.  I was doing well, prolly $20/mo until the new vendor came in.  After he came, I was doing about $4/mo.  We both have the same machines: Oak Vista 300's.

I placed my 10c machine next to his 2-for-1 and waited for 1 service cycle (8 weeks)  before checking. 

Results: My machine was empty with $28 worth of dimes.  The other guy was more then 1/2 full.  At 2-for-1 I estimate he had about $15 in there.  I'm guessing he only had that much because mine had gone empty and his was the only one left.

The second was in a family seafood restaurant.  I was competing with the same vendor.  This one had only $2.60 in 49 days.  But the other guy didn't look like he had much missing either.  This just may be one of those 'dud' locations all around.

[Outlander]

Sounds like the first one is a keeper and the concept is a gem. Some may balk at $14 a month but I go by the stop and $28 is worth it. Might kick it up to a Vista 450 and maybe get more.

Are you using 10mm or 12mm gumballs?

[shvend]

Alan, I know exactly what you are talking ball on this one,  the silver balls you are talking about were called speckle balls or trade balls.  Get the ball TRADE it for a prize of some kind.  My grandpa and dad done those types of machines for years.  I have seen people in my area try this in several places with money and I have also tried it.  My personnel experience with it the money does not work.  I have found using a winning gumball or some kind of product marked different and the recipeant being able to trade it for something of value has worked better.  But that is the area we are in may be different somewhere else in the world.